Hydration Level
I would like to know how to figure out what is the optimal hydration level for a flour combination so that I get “adequate sized holes” and significantly more expansion (oven spring).
I am making bread using a combination of 10-20 day old aged home ground flour, using white winter wheat berries = 384 gr (40%), and KA unbleached bread flour 576gr (60%)
360 gr sour dough starter (100/100) {15%}
666 gr water {70%}
34 gr Barley Malt Syrup {3%}
23 gr Salt {2%}
All these steps are performed at around 78-79°F
Autolyze flours + water + malt for 2 hrs while the starter is growing also for 1½ - 2 hrs. This is after the starter being feed the night before starting with 40 gr starter, 40 gr water + 40 gr flours (20 + 20 gr) = 120 gr starter, and then in the morning with 120 water +120 flours (60 + 60 gr) = 360 gr starter.
At the end of the 2 hrs I mix in the salt, then add the starter and mix for 5 min, dump in an oiled rectangular receptacle with lid. Wait 40 min, Stretch and Fold, wait 40 min, S&F, wait 40 S&F. Ferment for 2 hrs, divide dough in 2, form in boules, let proof for 2 hrs preheating oven after 1½ hrs. Brush with water and lame. Place in oven with water pan in bottom and bake for 30 min @ 500°F and 20 min @ 380°F.
I would like the bread to rise more uniform and rounder! The question being, More fermentation time or lower hydration? Or am I missing something else!
does strike me as a wet one. 70% water plus syrup plus 100% hydration starter Let's see....
water: 160+666=826 flour: 160+384+576=1120 826/1120 x100= 74% (rounded up) hydration
So that is very soupy stuff if you are not used to handling wet dough. Especially sourdoughs tend to feel wetter with fermentation. Toss in the syrup for a bit more fun and soon you can plaster the walls. Not sure of your grain hydration but if very dry it would work out. If moist, then ... might want to reduce the water in the recipe. I think I would hold back about 100g (for 65%) at mixing time and add as I see fit. Hold back more if your climate is warm and humid.
The S & Fs I would move around a bit shifting them closer to shaping time and letting the dough bulk until about 1/3 risen, then do the S&Fs and keep the final proof short heating oven and shaping at the same time. But that's just the way I do it. I like to see some volume before I start stretching and folding. Too long in the banneton can lead to flatter loaves. Don't let them double before baking, that would be too long. Let the oven do some of the work of raising the bread higher and fuller. :)
I will attempt to mix for 5-6 min, then ferment for 2 hrs, 3 S&F @ 40 min intervals, divide, shape, proof for 2 hrs, then bake! Nonetheless, everyting I have readi speaks of doing the S&F to develop the gluten so as to effectively trap the fermentation gas and then ferment!
You're working in an area that a bit more tricky and picky in regards to the hydration level and freeform proofing, but I agree that your desired result is obtainable. If I were tackling this goal, I would focus on reducing the extensibility of the dough, and increasing the elasticity of the dough, particularly for the final shaping. To accomplish this, my mind says to first make sure I'm working with a fairly elastic dough at shaping (i.e. more S&F during the bulk), and then I would double-shape my dough with a 30-50 minute rest between shapings. So, instead of a preshape step, I would actually fully shape the loaf into a tight boule. Then after a long enough rest for the dough to relax enough to shape again (30-50min) I would give a final tight shaping and start the proofing timer (i.e. keep my eye on it until I see a small 25-33% increase). I would aim to get my loaves in the oven when I see that relatively small increase in size.
I would personally, and everyone has different ideas on how to accomplish this, put the S&F towards the first half of bulk just like you did. In addition, I would add one/two S&F towards the end so I had a good idea on the level of elasticity of the dough; ensuring that when I'm dumping the dough out of the bulk container that it has just relaxed enough to shape for the first time but not so relaxed that it wants to run. Then, I'd proceed with my two full shapings and proof.
My only concern with these steps would be the crumb structure, and if after the loaves are baked I'm not happy with the crumb then I'd make some subtle adjustments next time (fewer S&F or "softer" hands).
Thanks for your contribution. Good constructive observations.
There are so many variations that can be incorporated into the methodology, that I am tapping resorces out there for ideas and hopefully to exchange info with someone that has done and achieved this already! Thanks!
Since you haven't described it yet, how exactly are you proofing the boules. I know you said freeform, but more precisely than that would be helpful.
On a couche? On parchment? On a peel?
Any, whatsoever, support on the boules? E.g. couche bunched around boule, etc.
Covered? If so, covered with what? A bowl? Plastic wrap?
At what temp? The same ~78F?
After they are proofed, do you handle them at all? How much? Process.
I'm just trying to gain a better understanding of this part of your process as you did a wonderful job describing the earlier parts.
not as thirsty. So a 40% whole grain at 74% hydration isn't what I would call overdone at all. But nit gettig the gluten developed and not supporting a wet dough with some kind of form its where your problem lies, That is why it goes out rather than up. If you get the gluten developed as MO says and then use basket for support, then all will be well - no worries - these are very easy things to fix and you are nearer to a perfect loaf than you think! Don;t forget to use rice flour so the wet dough doesn't stick to the basket or towel. Well done for free form loaf.
Happy SD baking
Thanks for your reply dabrownman. I feel that there is something in my procedure or in the technique that has not matched what needs to be done in order to obtain the oven rise I am after. I am aware of the option to use the banetton to provide form, but I want to obtain therounder shape (upwards) and rise free-form!
"I am aware of the option to use the banetton to provide form, but I want to obtain therounder shape (upwards) and rise free-form!"
This is unrealistic, as in "I want to lose weight and eat all the ice cream I want."
It's not unrealistic at all! It's all about dough strength.
It very well could be........
However, I am looking for more angles and ways to obtain the desired results. I have seen this achieved even with higher hydration levels, I just have not been able to replicate it! or reach those persons for adequate guidance or a person that has had the same experience and successfully tackled it! But I will get there!
Who do you know that lets their dough proof for two hours without a form to hold it, that is getting a rise that goes up rather than out?
That seems physically impossible. Perhaps they are continuously reshaping the dough during the proof?
While proofing no, oven spring..... YES!
I make all of my sourdough breads free form. I have one banneton but never use it.
An example:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/39186/sourdough-ciabatta-emmer
It's not impossible!
Understanding bulk fermentation:
Dough is bulk fermented not for flavour but for creating strength. Commercial yeast doughs typically require longer bulk fermentation. But with sourdough using a starter / levain is the equivalent of using a preferment. When a preferment is used less bulk is required to gain the strength needed.
Note that firm preferment's do more for strength than wet ones, this goes for both yeasted and sour-dough.
Since I use a white flour firm SD that is fed often at high inoculations I am favouring a high redox potential (strength).
When I make my bread I only need 90-120 minutes of bulk before shaping. After forming the loaf it rises without losing any height and after a time will actually gaining vertical height. A total proof time up to 8 hours. With this inherent strength I can rise my loaf to 3 times its original volume and score it without worry of it falling.
If one is looking for dough strength a firm white starter is the way to go!
You use mainly white flour and that may explain in part the height you very nicely obtained! Very nice looking bread!
Home milled flour is "heavier", but there has to be a way to get it to raise highet in the oven than waht I am getting. I have gotten some pretty good suggestions which I need to try!
Thanks! I guess you are letting know those that belive it is impossible! I know it is possible, I have seen it done, but have been unusccesull reaching the persons to ask them!
If you don't use home milled flour in 3 days you need to let it age for 4 weeks so that is performs correctly and oxidizes naturally. Fresh milled flour in the 10-20 days rrange after milling is the worst time to use it according to the supposed milling experts.
Short of using same day ground flour, I have made bread (for the same exact recipe) using 1 week increments in aging for up to 6-8 weeks, and I have not observed any perceptible difference!