The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Sourdough and starter

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

Sourdough and starter

Hello

I am new here and new at trying to start a starter. I did with whole wheat flour last Monday but I am not sure if i did it right. Today is Day 8 yet i do not get the fruity smell or sour smell. yet it does not have a bad smell. It smells like dry cardboard. It grows and bubbles but when i scrape the top the bottom does not look like it has bubbles or honey comb-like look. It looks like a paste. Am I doing it right?I started with whole wheat flour, left it for 48 hours and then fed whole wheat flour again and then the white bread flour.

I went ahead and baked bread with it anyway today just to see the outcome. It just came out of the oven. I let the final rise on a couche in a basket and the dough did get stuck onto the cloth and I think I deflated the dough when i tried pulling the dough away from the cloth. I also cannot get my boule to stay round and puffy. It flatten out in the oven.

Help!!!

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

This is my schedule:

monday - flour + water 1:1

Tuesday - no feed

wrdnesday - 1:1:1 (it grew and bubbled)

thursday - fed 1:1:1 again 12 hours later discard except for 11 oz then fed 1:1:1

friday - fridge

monday - discard all but 2 oz fed 1:1:1 put back in fridge. 

It has been growing since day 3 (Wednesday)

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

is ready for the fridge. You need to keep it warm until you can see the pattern of it rising and falling on a regular schedule. I was feeding mine once a day but it also was an established starter. Keep an eye on yours and feed it when it starts to fall.bonce it really gets going, it could be twice a day.  Be sure to discard at least half and feed it whatever ratio of flour/ water you want. A lot of people keep a starter with half water/ half flour by weight (not by volume). Once it is on a regular schedule, you may consider refrigerating it. I make mine much thicker when putting it in the fridge so it doesn't run out of food. 

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

Thank you for replying Danni3113. So I can just take it out of the fridge and start feeding by weight till it smells sour or do I need to start all over again?

should I wait for it to come to room temp first before feeding?

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

and then feed it. Mine only smells sour just before it needs feeding and even then,  not a lot. I like just a slight tang with my sourdough breads so I tend to use mine fairly early after a feeding; no more than 12 hours and usually about 6. Please do not start all over. You are well in your way!

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

I am so consumed with my starter problem I guess I forgot my manners. I just started baking bread about 2 years ago because I wanted to feed my family healthier food free from preservatives as much as i can possibly avoid. I have always loved sourdough and thought I would familiarize with baking regular bread before taking a bigger challenge as sourdough. I read many bread books but can still get confused and of course overwhelmed. Cooking is my zen thing to do and am lucky that my son is my first fan of my cooking followed by my husband. The first bread I made was bagels which was super rocky hard yet my son ate them all, gnawing them all is a better description. Since then I have improved some. I finally mustered enough courage to start my first starter. But every day I look at it and smell it and I go "hmm.....???"

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

or the basket if using them.  Nothing sticks to rice flour and nothing is worse than stuck dough.  Rice flour cmes in two kinds.  Make sure to get the non glutenous one.

If your dough rose then then SD starter is well.  In a couple of weeks you can stiffen it up and store it in the fridge.

Happy SD baking and Welcome!

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

Ok just made another loaf following the video. Let's see if it will asked as a boule. 

Left my starter out since we last connected. Will reduce and feed and feed everyday and see what happens. 

Will try try rice flour to help not stick to cloth. Thank you all so much. Will let you know of progress. I don't know how to upload picture here though

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

New loaf came out using regular yeast. Practiced making boule as per video. Definitely taller than the first made two days ago even though it still spread a little. I wonder if the round shape can be maintained by letting it rest in a smaller diametered bowl instead of on a peel. 

Took pictures but I don't know how to post picture. 

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

How long are you leaving your boule out on the peel before you put it in the oven? You should definitely have it rising/proofing in the basket or bowl to maintain its shape.

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

I leave it for an hour on the peel and tested it by indenting the dough with my finger and see if it bounces back slowly. 

I have since tried many loaves. I think it is my surface tension. I did not have enough of it. So I have been folding 2-3 times before first rise and then fold 2-3 times more before second rise and still let it rise on the peel. It has kept its shape better and it is higher. 

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

I can say this with all the authority of someone who has never tried doing as you do.  However, In the hundred or so loaves of bread I have baked, I turn the dough out onto the peel, slash and put it in the oven within a minute of the dough releasing from the basket.  That means it is in the hot oven within a minute or so of losing the supporting walls of the basket.

I don't know whether that would change in production setting where you were making a large number of loaves at once, but even there I bet that they slash quickly and load all the dough into the oven within a few minutes of it leaving the basket.

GrannyMae's picture
GrannyMae

Is definitely coming in too early. I don't think your starter is fully live.

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

Thank you GrannyMae for your confirmation. That is why I am so glad I finally found a place to ask question and learn from so many experienced bakers. I am feeding it and leaving on counter daily to see if anything happens. Otherwise I will start anew come Monday.

Anyone knows anythithing big about using yogurt and flour for starter?

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I'm sure your starer is fine.  Did you thicken it up and see how well it rose?  The most common problem with new starters is that folks get them too thin by using too much water.  Yours will come around.  

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

I reduce it to 1 oz and feed 1:1:1 by weight. I see a few bubbles but the weight stayed the same. No growth so far. Then I left for out of town on Friday. Eager to go back on Sunday to see what happens. Do you think the fact that I use tap water that might affect it?

AnotherLoaf's picture
AnotherLoaf

I don't know if tap water is the cause of your troubles, but it can't hurt to try using purified. I always recommend using purified water and organic flour to feed your starter. It's worth the extra effort for me, as it made all the difference in the world. That being said, it really depends on your water. 

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

would the water taken from fridge water dispenser considered purified? 

AnotherLoaf's picture
AnotherLoaf

Do you mean the dispenser on the outside of the frig door? If so, I guess it would depend if you have some sort of filtering device on your frig. I don't know a lot about that, as my frig is still "old school", no fancy frills.

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

Yes water from fridge dispenser. Did you get your purified water from the bottle water bought from stores then?

i lost my to be starter. Left it for the weekend and came back to it smelling like bubble gum, sour but it also has something white growing on it. 

I will start over now that I know better, I think. 

AnotherLoaf's picture
AnotherLoaf

If you are starting from scratch with making a sourdough starter, I highly recommend typing "pineapple juice solution" into the search box on this site.  There is a part I, and part II.  Read it through in it's entirety, then follow the directions as closely as possible. You will have a lively starter in no time!  As I mentioned before, purified water, which you can buy (mine usually says "spring water") by the gallon, or less, and organic flour.  I believe the directions call for rye flour, which seems to be the fastest to start, so I would definitely use that.  If you're going to go to all that trouble, I figure you might as well do it right!  Also, if for any reason you must go away for a time, always put your starter in the frig.  Oh, and one more note, if your water comes from a well, you probably don't need purified water.  I think it is the chlorine in the water that keeps the starter from doing well.

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

Thank you for the suggestion. I have already started a new batch And again with whole wheat flour. Today april 25 is already day 8. Initially there was growth but since day 4 it seems stunted again. I don't know if it is due to the cooler weather. It has been about 69 degree lately. I put it in the oven with light on and door ajar and the thermometer says about 74-79 degree yet there's not much growth. I fed it once a day initially but have been feeding twice daily since day 4. It smells good and getting to the sour smell but it is not growing exponentially. I am using tap water again - I forgot to use filtered water. Since there was growth the second and third day I just continued with tap water. It should have growth right? Does t mean if it is not growing it is not ready? There are some bubbles. How does one know if it is ready to use for baking ?

i am not discouraged but just don't know why it is not as easy for me. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

for it to rise and fall before feeding it again..  The 4 biggest problems poeple have with making a starter are:too low a temperature - you took care of that, too thin a mix with too much water, over feeding it which just weakens it and nt having patience.

So thicken it up and wait for it to rise and fall before feeding again and don't feed again until it rises and falls again.

You are almost there.

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

So I put double amount of flour to single amount of water by weight to thicken it? 2:1?

what happens when the temperature is too low? Will it eventually do something when temperature increase later? I put it in the oven with light on and nothing happened either. It does not smell bad but seems like it smells sour just slack in activities ie rising and bubbles. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

to thicken it up ans skipped the water.  it will now rise and fall if it OK and don't feed it again till it does.  You can stir it after 6 hours if you want.  Patience comes to those who wait a long, long time:-)

I'm sure it will be fine 

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

I did as told and cross everything cross able. If it died there will not be bubbles right? If there is even just one small bubble it is still alive, right?

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

I thickened the starter as suggested and stirring it once a day while waiting for rise and bubbles. Now it has come to smell a little rancid like. Still no rise and it has been 3 days now. No bubbles except for one  or two, here and there. Is that normal?????

anniechanleong's picture
anniechanleong

My starter this morning finally rose with lots of bubbles. yesterday the weather warmed up a lot. Just fed it again thicker than usual. Not measuring yet. If it "woke up" like this how many time should I feed before leaving it in the fridge? I need to go out of town this weekend. How should I prep it? Today is day 16. It has gone dormant for 6 days since last thickening.