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Hamelman sourdough seed bread - too dense, please help

drdudidu's picture
drdudidu

Hamelman sourdough seed bread - too dense, please help

My favorite sourdough bread is Hamelman sourdough seed bread, which was the first sourdough bread I ever made, and the best since then. 

I found it hard to get the big bubbles and an open crumb this wonderful bread should have (in the past, when I lived in the US I used to get it). I follow the book recipe very accurately. I thought it might be the gluten content of the flour, so I started to use Pivetti bread-flour (imported from Italy, high Gluten content). Still I get quite a dense crumb - see the photos attached. I also noticed that the overnight proofing doesn't result in almost any rise - I take the bread out of the fridge and it has quite the same volume as before entering the fridge.

Should it be my starter? The difficulty creating steam in my oven?

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AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

And a breakdown of your method would help. Far too many variables. You mention difficulty in getting steam into your oven. One reason might be that the bread crusts over too quickly inhibiting oven spring. 

drdudidu's picture
drdudidu

You can find the recipe here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10286/jeffrey-hamelman039s-sourdough-seed-bread

I sticked to it.

I always have the feeling that my oven temp is above what it is set, so I usually set it less 10 degrees Celsius. It is very wide oven so it is hard to get good steam, because when it is warm and I open to put the loafs in you loose much of the steam.

But i'm not sure these are the issues. I wondered if my starter is too weak?

 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Or a similar type pot that can be used like a Dutch oven? 

I don't think it's your starter. If your starter can rise then so can your bread. And it certainly makes bubbles. 

How do you store your starter and prepare enough starter for the bread? 

drdudidu's picture
drdudidu

And tried few times using it. No doubt it improves oven rising and make the crust shinier. But still I don't get those big holes I always yearn for so badly :)

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

What type of flour do you use and how much kneading and/or stretch and folds do you do? 

drdudidu's picture
drdudidu

I use Pivetti bread flour (90%) + whole rye (10%)

The bread flour has around 13-14% gluten.

I strech&fold twice in 50 minutes intervals. 

I store my starter in the fridge, and feed it once every week. I usually feed it once before using it for a new bread

 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Do you form the dough in a dough mixer? He develops the gluten quite well in the dough mixer first and then adds 2x stretch and folds. If you don't form the dough in a mixer then perhaps the reason is the gluten isn't formed well so lack of oven spring. If so, then when forming the dough by hand then give it an initial 5-8 minutes knead before going into bulk fermentation and stretch and folds. Over kneading will make smaller holes so don't overdo it. If you follow it by the book then this will not be the problem.

I'm not familiar with the flour but sounds Italian and European flours need less water then North American flours. If the dough is too hydrated and therefore struggles with height it won't get that lift and a more collapsed dough. So how is the hydration and feel of the dough? 

If you think it's your starter then a double feed prior to using may be needed. Give it more strength. 

Why not go back to Dutch oven and go back to increasing the temperature by 10C. Hot oven is crucial for oven spring and the Dutch oven will provide the steam. 

 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

I'm sure you've got something in mind you're aiming for but I think you're bread looks great!

B'tai Avon

drdudidu's picture
drdudidu

I do mix first using a mixer. The dough doesn't feel overhydrated (if at all it might need a bit more hydration)

Thank you very much for your help!

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

If the flour is handling the hydration well and you think it needs more then increase the hydration. That should help.