Deflated dough after scoring
Ok so go gentle as I am new to this pastime. I have been trying to get better at a basic white loaf. Original attempts with60% hydration appeared to form too stiff a dough with little elasticity despite 10mins kneading.
Tried 66% hydration which was very sticky but appeared better, I let raise for 90mins room temp then knocked back and shaped for loaf tin. After proofing for 1 hr in the loaf tin I went to score the surface. The dough deflated like a balloon.
I baked anyway but bread appears rubbery, dense and has small hole structure.
Does the deflation on scoring suggest under or over proofing. Or is it not as simple as that. I did:
Mix all dry stuff
Add warm water
Knead for 10 min
Rise to double 90mins
Knock back shape and proof for 1 hr
SCored and cooked for 10 mins mAx 30mins 180 deg
Any initial thoughts really appreciated
Mark
Hi Mark
with a tinned loaf that has reached full proof i would suggest not scoring , in fact with any loaf or dough piece if it has reached that advanced stage then bake it as is or risk that deflation. With a tinned loaf that has support on all sides and bottom its only way to go is upward so you will most likely just get a tear from near the lip of the tin which is likely to be quite uniform anyway. You will soon get to know whether its best to leave go or not, next bake leave it go and see what you think of the result.
kind regards Derek
I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, as I just registered for the forum. Please excuse me if I am violating any protocol here.
Here goes: It could be possible you are overkneading. If you are very strong, you may be over-developing the gluten threads to a point that they break down. I have had trouble with this, and it makes too dense and even a texture for my liking. A couple years ago I switched to the stretch-and-fold method taught by Peter Reinhart (Crust and Crumb), skipping the kneading all together, and it has made a world of difference in my bread texture. Now I get nice varied air pockets in my sourdough, I realize now I'd been breaking down the gluten threads before with over-zealous kneading.
Bread flour makes a difference, too. You can add 2TBS of gluten protein to all-purpose with the same chewiness. For me, that turned out to be more economical.
What are you using to score your bread? I'm still searching for the perfect tool, as it has to be really, really sharp.
Happy baking,
Rose-Marie
It's really (really!) hard, verging on the impossible to over-knead by hand. Gluten will break down due to over fermenting/proofing resulting in a pile of goo - which can sometimes be recovered by re-kneading if you can get through the sticky stage.
So over proofing is more likely what happened here - left too long/too warm for the proofing stage, so a disturbance resulted in collapse.
I regularly score my tinned breads though.
e,g,
What's required is to learn about the "finger poke" test for proving dough. Google for it and search here - there are descriptions and videos.
-Gordon
...that's the immediate issue. Yozzause is right. You don't need to score tin loaves.
However, it may be that your loaf would have collapsed anyway. If you're experiencing the very understandable problem (like all of us when we bagan) of knowing if your loaf is under- or over-proofed, the KAF blog published an excellent visual guide to proofing tin loaves (including the finger-poke test):
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2014/06/20/the-bread-also-rises/
Hope that helps.
In my experience, once dough is overproofed, it's gone and can't be brought back. It is best to learn not to overproof to begin with and to err on the side of underproofing.
Last Friday I got two loaves of Hamelman's Rustic Bread started first thing in the morning. I used a real nice looking pre-ferment prepared the evening before. At 7AM in the morning our whole neighborhood lost power (don't know why as there were no storms at all in the area). The dough was already bulk fermenting and I hoped that the power would come back on so I could get the bread baked. It did come back on about 40 minutes later but then went out. I trudged ahead and put the dough into lined bannetons and said a prayer to the bread god/goddess for the power to come back on. No such luck and when the power came on I had gooey mush spilling over the edges of the bannetons. I was too disgusted to even take a picture and just went a head and spilled it out into the trash. The only redeeming thing is I know well know what over proofed dough looks like!
Most of us have tried to save an over proofed loaf with varying success depending on what you do and how many times it has risen beforehand. If way over proofed and a new rising would be a 3rd one, I like to add some flour and water with , a bit of slat, do some slap and folds to get all together ,then shape and let it rise again. Most of the time Mini's saving procedure is enough\. The huge holes will likely suffer - but the taste may be much better as a result. Give it a try next time, Bread is a very forgiving hobby!
Happy baking
but just like blowing a bubble and it pops, a little chewing or folding of the gum and you can get another bubble out of it. Same with your dough. When it deflates a lot by scoring, better to tip the dough out of the tin and reshape gently, let it rise again (it will go much quicker this time around) score and get it into the oven before it gets as big as last time.
Folding and reshaping redistributes food to the yeast and tightens the gluten structure so it can trap gas again. I don't think your dough was so over proofed as to not get another rise out of it.
As you experienced, a popped dough (when immediately baked after deflating) won't rise much as the gas is no longer trapped and pathways exist for any remaining gas to escape.
First of all wow! What a friendly and helpful gang. Thank you.
I will reasearch and experiment further based on your advice and thoughts. I did consider switching from fast granulated yeast and also maybe autolyse ?? The flour before adding salt and yeast.
I am still to experience an elastic dough seen on many a video.
Regards
Mark
Some good advice above but it's also worth noting that the conventional 'wisdom' of allowing the dough to double in size during the bulk fermentation can be pushing things a bit. You may find that you'd get a better result if you're less ambitious and leave a bit of life in the dough for the final proving.