May 2, 2015 - 8:54pm
Boule vs Baguette
Hi everyone, I've been baking a lot of sourdough bread lately and I usually shaped them into either a boule or baguette form. Though I noticed that the baguettes are having better oven springs compared the boule. What gives? I am using a 100% hydration starter here. Many thanks in advance....
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Assuming the exact same recipe, it seems it has to be how you are forming them. That your baguettes are getting more tension.
since I don't know anything about your process. If you are retarding the bread in the fridge prior to baking and take them out a half hour before baking the baguette will rise in temperature to the core where the core of the boule will remain cold and by the time the oven heat penetrates the loaf the exterior has baked enough to prevent expansion. Just a wild guess.
Gerhard
There are many possible explanations for a difference in oven spring. If you can provide a description of your formula and procedures (for each shape) and photos of each shape, that would help us advise you.
And, just to be sure we are talking about the same thing, how are you judging oven spring?
David
differences, circumferences, and lengths of loaves before and after baking.
If I were to take a jab at it, I might say that the baguettes spring more in their widths than their lengths where as boules will spring both ways but more in their lengths than the baggies. If you can figure an "x" "y" and "z" to figure the differences in volume, that would be cool! Someone probably has a formula how to figure the curves...
I think I would take each baked bread that started as the same weight of dough, bag tightly, remove any surround air and submerse completely, recording the level before and after submersion. Then make comparisons. :)
The direction in which a loaf expands depends in large part on how it is scored. If baguettes are scored in the traditional manner, Mini, AKA Archimedes, is correct.
David
Thank you very much for the responses and my apologies for not providing enough of information.
So here you go :
The recipe called for the above to be mixed at once, let ferment overnight. Degas after first fermentation and shape.Let rise till double in size. Bake with steam at 250 degree celcius for 10 mins and 240 degree celcius for about 20-30 mins.
I live in the tropics. So things are moving rather quickly in here. The 1st proving takes only 4-6 hours where the 2nd won't be longer than 2 hours. Flavour wise, it is not too bad as it is tangy and aromatic to my expectation but I would like to improvise more from there...be it flavour, folding technique, scoring.....you name it...I wanna do it. My shaping technique is still poor and am hesitate to shape the dough sometimes.
I like varieties in my breads and would mix in grains and seeds every now and then.
Meanwhile I will try to come up with some pictures. Thank you for the attention and patience on a newbie like me!
So, you are mixing 782g of dough at 55% hydration with 1.4% salt.
First of all, this is a rather dry dough, especially if since the flours (dark rye and bread flour) are rather thirsty. I would expect the bread to be very dense, which is fine, if that's the way you like your boules. However, baguettes are usually between 65 and 75% hydration.
Second, your salt percentage is low. 1.8 to 2% is more usual. Again, if the bread tastes good to you, the low salt is fine. Incidentally, salt slows down fermentation, so a low salt dough will ferment faster, all else being equal.
You say your recipe calls for bulk fermentation overnight, but your dough doubles (if I understand you correctly) in 4-6 hours. If your temperature is warm, this is not surprising. There are a few things you can do. One is to reduce the amount of starter. Another is to mix your dough with cold water. Another is to refrigerate your dough overnight, after it has increased by about 75%, and shape it the next morning. However, if you keep your dough this dry, what I would do is shape the loaf after bulk fermentation is complete and refrigerate the shaped loaf, then bake it the next day.
I don't live in the tropics, but we get Summer temperatures of over 40 dC some days, and my kitchen is 29 dC or a bit more many days. I have used each of the techniques at one time or another, but the most important thing is to judge your dough's readiness for the next step by how it looks and feels, not by the clock.
I would suggest you try another recipe. A lot of folks have found the so-called "1-2-3" sourdough reliable. I don't make it, but I'm sure you can find a description on TFL, or some one here will provide it. The recipe I use most as a basis for adding stuff like other grains, seeds, dried fruits and so forth is this one: My San Francisco Sourdough Quest, Take 4
Regarding your first questions about oven spring with your baguettes, I suggest you try a more conventional recipe for baguettes at first. You might also consider the effect of scoring on oven spring and loaf shape. See: Scoring Bread: An updated tutorial
I hope this all helps.
David
dealing with dough hydration and high humidity.
Just like those making and raising doughs in low humidity have to protect their loaves from drying out, I wonder if the same type of protection should be extended for high humidity, protecting the dough from absorbing moisture from the air. Techniques will vary seasonally with weather changes from dry to wet.
With the amount of rye flour in the recipe (yum but sticky) you might want to try kneading with lightly wet hands (instead of using flour) and leave the dough at 55 or 60% hydration as wet hands tend to raise dough hydration. One trick I found was to pour a teaspoon of olive oil in one hand, rub them together and then oil the surface where I plan to knead. A very thin oiled surface is desired.
I wet my finger tips or hands lightly in a bowl of water nearby. A tiny bit of water on the scraper will help scrape the bowl instead of flour and as you get used to using water, your clean up gets reduced as well. It takes a little practice but you will figure out the right amount of water to keep on your fingers. I don't want too much water or I'll be sliding all over the place. If you work the dough in the air instead of the work surface, alternate wetting hands to keep from sticking to the dough. :)
Thanks mini oven,your suggestions are well noted! The more I bake, the more I tried on reducing my rye percentage from my starter as I noticed the oven spring improves a bit. I live in Asia and the available baking ingredients here are quite limited. Bread flour being bread flour, King Arthur Flour? Never chanced upon....brotform and other gadgets? Got to order them online or buy those stuff with an exorbitant price tag. So I have to do a lot of trial and error on my own in order to come up with a decent loaf of bread here and that is why a website as such,together with the helpful people like you and David is like Godsent.....
Thanks a lot David. I shall continue with my quest on perfecting my bread baking skill with your suggestions. Just received my brotform, perhaps I'll be more 'adventurous' on trying out high hydration dough. I really appreciate your effort on figuring out the baker's percentage too.