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Is this a REALLY TERRIBLE idea?

Trocadero's picture
Trocadero

Is this a REALLY TERRIBLE idea?

I made a starter from the water of boiled potatoes, flour, water, and yeast, a couple of weeks ago, and I've been baking bread almost every day. One issue I have is getting the dough out of the brotform after the second rise. I'm using plastic brotforms, because I'm in Hong Kong, and I'm worried that the intense humidity here might make natural fibre brotforms more likely to get mouldy, since mould is the constant enemy here over summer. I've tried flour, oil and flour, and a floured teatowel, but I still lose a bit of volume when I transfer the dough from the brotform to the parchment on a board to the baking stone. 

I have an idea, but since I can't find evidence of anyone else doing it, I'm worried that it might actually be REALLY SILLY. For the second rise, what if you were to place the dough seam-side down directly onto parchment, and then fold the sides up and use pegs to construct a basket, forcing the dough to rise upward? I'm imagining you could just undo the pegs and not need to do any transferring of the dough except straight onto the baking stone. 

Please tell me if you think this is terrible!

:)

 

Ford's picture
Ford

Try it, yourself, what do you have to lose.  If it works, that was a good idea!

Ford

kneadingbob's picture
kneadingbob

I'm trying to visualize this. Are you making a "hammock" for your bread? If so, I think it's a great idea.

PetraR's picture
PetraR

The Idea is good, the only thing would be that it wont be that round, because where the paper is going up there will be seams pressing in to the Dough.

I bake in a Dutch Oven, for my bread, the only way is up. :)

Trocadero's picture
Trocadero

Thanks you three:) Ford, I'll report back and let you know if it works!I am indeed thinking hammock-ish, Kneadingbot. Petra, I'll try rectangular first. I see what you mean about the creases. I'd love a Dutch oven:)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

You wrote:

I still lose a bit of volume when I transfer the dough from the brotform to the parchment

This tells me you may be over-proofing your dough.  Try reducing your overall proofing times.  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

if you're into potatoes... an oldie but goodie.  If you have a group and no mixer.  Mix the dough together and let stand for 10 minutes before passing it around from one person to another beating the dough into shape.  :)

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/5285/sullivan-street-potato-pizza

 

emkay's picture
emkay

I used parchment paper for my second rise on two occasions and both times my shaped dough stuck to the parchment paper so I wasn't able to cleanly peel away the paper from the sides of the dough which left them a bit ragged looking. My dough was 76% hydration. A lower hydration might not stick. 

 

AZ Chuck's picture
AZ Chuck

Why would you take the paper off?? Bake it with the paper on.

emkay's picture
emkay

I did forget to mention that I baked with the paper on. Before I bought a linen couche, I used parchment paper and cardboard strips as a 'mock couche' for proofing my shaped dough. I would fold the paper around a strip of cardboard to act as the divider between pieces of dough. When I removed the cardboard strips from the folds of the paper after proofing, the dough kinda spread a little bit since the cardboard support was gone. The sides of the dough were still stuck to the paper. So I did bake with the paper, but the sides were a mess.

In hindsight the mock couche was not a good idea with my fairly slack dough which I why I finally bought a couche.

Trocadero's picture
Trocadero

Mini Oven, it is quite possible that I am over-proofing. I have to admit that my approach has been 'how long can I leave it'. That pizza dough looks amazing. 

Interesting to read that the parchment stuck, emkay.

I'm currently working on strengthening my starter, too. Yesterday, I baked a loaf of regular bread, using similar ingredient ratios to my sourdough bread, and it was pleasant, but it was nothing like sourdough. I've got to work this out...

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

You might want to make yourself a dough gauge using a tall narrow glass, one of those skinny olive glasses comes to mind.  Pinch off a ping-pong piece of developed dough and drop to the bottom trying to level it out.  Mark the level and the level at "double" cover loosely and let rise right next to your bread dough.  Note how long it takes.

You can easily fold the bread sourdough before the gauge indicates double but that should give you some idea when to start degassing and shaping for the final rise.  Deflate the gauge dough at the same time you shape.  Don't let your final proof go over doubling save some rise for the oven heat.  "Just because it can, doesn't mean it should."  Watch your gauge while your bread is baking to see how high it will rise... just for fun.  You can easily take this little dough ball, feed it, let it mature and toss it into the next batch of bread dough.  :)

ExperimentalBaker's picture
ExperimentalBaker

That is a great idea! I am going to use it for my bread too. 30C room temperature day and night is horrible.

 

sandydog's picture
sandydog

I have had similar difficulties with plastic baskets - particularly with high hydration doughs, which may also (As mini o says) be over proofed.

I have had success with rolling the formed loaves in a tray of flour, immediately before putting them into the (Floured already) baskets for their final proof. I brush off any excess flour after turning the loaves out of the baskets and immediately before their entry into the oven.

Of course you could also consider lowering the hydration (You gave us no clues on this) of your recipe.

Happy baking,

Brian

Trocadero's picture
Trocadero

This is wonderful. Thank you so much for your advice and ideas. Lots of things to think about and try. My dough is 70%, sandydog. In all honesty, I haven't explored hydration. I've just been following the recipe without thinking too much about it. Breadmaking is huge! I'm loving it:) Thanks again. 

Janet Yang's picture
Janet Yang

Several posters have recommended dusting the cloth with rice flour, although I don't know what kind of rice flour they used or where they got it.

I had some Mochiko Sweet Rice Flour on hand and it worked great, even though it is not flour for baking.