The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Dough sticking to floured brotform

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Bob Marley's picture
Bob Marley

Dough sticking to floured brotform

The final dough is 70% hydration overall and 20% levain overall.

Once the overnight levain is mixed with water and the remaining flour, it autolyses for about an hour.  It's kneaded a couple of minutes and bulk fermented for two hours.  French folded (stretch and fold) and allowed to rise another hour.  Removed from the bowl it's shaped into a "boule" and allowed a 20 minute rest.  It's then finally shaped into a batard and placed into a banneton floured with AP and allowed to proof/rise for 1-2 hours.  Upon inverting the dough onto the peel, the dough had stuck bigtime to the banneton and I was able to salvage most of it into a real crooked looking loaf of bread.

To avoid the sticking problem, should I have done an additional french fold or two with an hour interval between each one???

The banneton was lightly sprayed with water then dusted.  Funny the previous SD loaf I made didn't stick when rye flour was used for dusting.

PetraR's picture
PetraR

Did you spray the bowl just before you sprinkled the flour in?

I use AP flour but also Semolina Flour before I put my bread in, mine does never stick.

I also flour the top of the Dough before I put it in the banneton seam side up and flour the Seamside , than I proof the dough.

Bob Marley's picture
Bob Marley

Yes, flour was added to the banneton right after spraying.

PetraR's picture
PetraR

I was thinking, I can of course be wrong * when you spray the basket right before you add the flour, the flour you used to add will get kind of doughy after a while and will stick to the sticky dough?

I never used water on my bannetons, I just use AP flour and Semolina and I had never anything sticking, not even wet dough.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

the basket.  Nothing sticks to rice flour,  It comes in 2 kinds.  They both work but I prefer the non glutinous version.  Tapioca flour also works.  If I am making a really wet white bread I will lightly dust to top of the boule too belfore it goes in the basket floured side down.

The term autolyse was invented by the quite famous Professor Calvel in France.  It is mixing flour with wateradn letting it sit.  His definition was very specific.- no salt and no levain.  Once you add levain you are fermenting not autolysing

http://www.cooksinfo.com/raymond-calvel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Calvel

Happy Baking.

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

I second the rice flour suggestion. I like applying mine with fine mesh strainer to get an even coating. While wheat (and rye) can work, I find rice flour has a higher success rate.

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

You asked if there should be additional stretch and folds.  I am no expert at avoiding stickiness, but I recently noticed that when my dough was sticky, it was not ready for shaping, but that an extra stretch and fold plus time, made the dough significantly less sticky than it was. 

I know from prior experience that had I put it in the basket, it likely would have stuck like glue no matter how well floured.

Doing the stretch and folds in a glass or plastic container let me see that the dough had not formed the required tiny bubbles until, as it turned out, the stickiness had gone away.

Davo's picture
Davo

I use a mix of rice flour and rye (because I like the character of the wholemeal rye). It never sticks. Pure rice would stick even less, but I like the rye, and a mix works fine.

Definitely DO NOT spray with water before flouring! That is just making glue.

If I find myself without rice flour, all I do is part-way through the proof, I roll the banettons on their sides until the loaf starts to peel off the banetton, on each side. This "unsticks" it at that point, and they come out easier than if you hadn't rolled them. E.g if I do an overnight rise in the fridge to bake the next night, I will roll them in the morning, and maybe again when they come out of the fridge to warm before baking...

Bob Marley's picture
Bob Marley

Good to know!

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

I have been "peeling" it with my fingers and then, turning upside down and pulling it out, which has not sound to be as gentle as rolling, which I will try the next time it seems to have stuck into the basket.

Davo's picture
Davo

David Esq - I find it helps, but just to be clear, I would try and do this well before I finally remove from the banettons, so the loaves are not fully ripe when I given them that preliminary "roll" (and so they tend to come off relatively well, but nevertheless there is a definite "release"). This just means that when they do finish off their proof, they have already been relatively recently "unstuck", and so come out easier at the end of the process, when ready for baking.

The reason I started doing this was that I found when they stuck badly on inverting to the peel and took a bit of sagging and dragging to get them out of the forms, that would often cause a "shearing" within the loaf (basically the body of the loaf would tear from the stuck skin), causing the (eventual) top of the loaf to come away from the rest, on baking. This can be one cause of a massive cavity in the top of the loaf.