The Fresh Loaf

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Tangzhong milk bread deflates after cooling

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Ao's picture
Ao

Tangzhong milk bread deflates after cooling

Hi guys!

First time poster here :)

I've been trying to make Hokkaido Milk Bread recently. the bread is nice and puffy right out of the oven, however it has a tendency to deflate/ collapse a little after cooling. Is there a way to prevent this?

 

Thanks in advance!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

baked to the correct inside temperature by checking it in the middle with and instant read thermometer.

Ao's picture
Ao

Thank you for you response. Sadly, I don't have a instant read thermometer. Can I hear the reasoning behind your suggestion? Do you think it is under/ over baked?

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

Are you letting the bread cool in the pan? That might be your problem. It helped in this thread.

Ao's picture
Ao

thanks for the link! I'm almost using the same recipe, except I'm using 2 tbsp butter instead of whipped cream.
I tip my loaves out on to a rack to let cool, It always shrinks as if the crumb cannot hold it's own weight.. I don't seem to have this problem with my other loafs with a harder crust, could it be that the crust is too soft? The texture is not dense. But it definitely isn't keeping the shape/size of the loaf right out of the oven.

This is today's loaf, without a photo for comparison, it isn't obvious, But the bread shrunk (20%? just a guess) during cooling...

This loaf was from yesterday, the photo was taken to show the crumb, but on the right side you can see the indent where the crust collapsed.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

as a loaf cools.

Try not letting the loaf proof as long, get it into the oven sooner.  Make sure the cooling rack is high enough off the counter,  stick cans or bowls under the corners if you have to with plenty of circulation all around.

Ao's picture
Ao

I guess shrinkage doesnt bother me as much as the collapsed side :(

As a general rule of thumb, I wait until the loaf doubles (in height). I've also found that I get a bigger oven spring if I shorten my final proof time, causing the bread to stretch abd tear on the sides. I've been baking two month now, and i've learnt that making a good tasting bread isn't horribly difficult, but making a good looking bread is definitely a challenge.

I'll raise the rack tonight, I'll update on how it goes :)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Have you tried a larger bread pan to support the high hydration dough?  Another try might be to reduce the hydration by just 1%.  Make sure the covered rising loaves are not drying out near the edges of the pan.  

Ao's picture
Ao

That seems like a good idea. If it keep collapsing/shrinking, I might just reduce the size of the dough instead of buying a bigger pan :) I don't know my hydration, but I'm guessing it is around 65% (I don't have a digital scale) - I can hand knead the dough with no problems after the first rise.

To proof, I throw saran wrap over the top of the bread pan, the loaves don't usually rise over the edges :)

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

How are you placing the loaves in the pan?   Do you pat down or  flatten out the dough in the pan or leave it rounded to expand into the sides of the pan and then rise up?  

I don't know about you, but it can sometimes be hard to judge and eyeball what "double" means.   I've developed several tricks to refresh my memory.  One is to simply take a two loaf recipe and shape all the dough into one loaf and drop it into one loaf pan.  Make a visual imprint (or better yet take a photo) and then divide the dough, rest and shape two loaves.  Round shapes can be tricky.  

Ao's picture
Ao

Just out of curiosity, what happens if you flatten the loaf out?I've never done this. I usually knead, flatten, roll the loaf up and plop it in the pan :) one of my pans is glass and needs to be well greased, otherwise my loaves end up being stuck in the pan. I'd imagining flattening the dough out in the glass pan will undoubtedly adhere the loaf to the glass, haha.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Just out of curiosity, what happens if you flatten the loaf out? I've never done this.

Me neither.  

I have no idea but I was wondering...  :)  

Flat has a moister side surface and perhaps tearing is more likely although probably easier to judge doubling. 

This Day's picture
This Day

I read somewhere that you should turn off the ceiling fan (or any other fan) while just-baked bread is cooling.  It cools too quickly with fan-circulated air.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

in the recipe might also contribute.  

Ao's picture
Ao

I had this collapsed/ curved side right out of the oven/pan today. I'm not sure what to make of it. I *did* underproof, which resulted in a much greater spring. Perhaps the problem is under proofing?

 

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

That the bread is coming out of the oven like this is most curious. Just to check, you are measuring your ingredients by weight, right?

Maybe you could walk us through your process of making the bread to see if there might be a clue there as to what's causing this. I agree with one of your prior comments that it's like the bread can't support it's own weight. I'm also thinking about Mini's idea that too much/too strong gluten might contribute.

I like dabrownman's idea that it might be underbaked, but the crumb shots I've seen don't indicate that.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Do you rotate the loaves in the oven?  Move them around so they don't sit in the same spot during the entire bake?

I was lazy the other day and didn't turn my loaf around after the initial rise.  One side was a little flatter in the shoulder curve, than the other side.   (plain oven with top and bottom coils, no fan)

Janet Yang's picture
Janet Yang

My loaves always collapses a little when removed from the pan. Since the pan is Pyrex, I lower the oven temp by 25° and bake it the same amount of time. The bread appears to be fully cooked, but I'm wondering if the oven should be a bit higher.

By the way, this is the recipe I've been using: http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016275-japanese-milk-bread