The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Pane Valle Maggia, ver. 3 3/18/2014

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dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Pane Valle Maggia, ver. 3 3/18/2014

After the last bake of this bread, I wondered if I could get a more open crust by doing all the mixing by hand, rather than some by machine. So, that's what I did. The formula was the same as that used in Pane Valle Maggia, ver. 2 3/7/2014, except I did not take the time to grind fresh whole wheat flour. I used Giusto's Organic Fine Whole Wheat flour instead.

My procedure was as follows:

1. The two levains - rye sour and whole wheat - were mixed the night before mixing the final dough and fermented at room temperature for 13 hours.

2. Around 11 AM, I mixed the levains with 500g of water and the AP and WW flour. This was left on the counter for a 3 hr. "autolyse" while I raced to the hospital and taught a class for pediatric residents. (How you spend your autolyse time is your choice.)

3. The salt was added and mixed into the dough with a spatula. Then about 60g of additional water was added. This was mixed in by hand, using the pinching maneuver recommended by Ken Forkish in FWSY.

4. Bulk Fermentation was done at room temperature for about 3 hours with stretch and folds every 30 minutes for 2 hours.

5. The dough was then divided into two equal pieces and pre-shaped as rounds. These were allowed to rest while I washed the container I had used for bulk fermentation and floured my linen-lined bannetons.

6. The pieces were shaped as boules and placed, seam-side up, in the bannetons which were then placed in food safe plastic bags and refrigerated. 

Note: This was one of the stickiest doughs I have ever worked with. Not surprising given the combination of lots of rye and lots of water. Shaping was a real challenge!

7. After about 12 hours, the oven was preheated to 500 dF with a baking stone and my usual steaming apparatus in place. 

8. The loaves were transferred to a peel and scored. 

9. The oven was steamed and the loaves were transferred to the baking stone.

10. The loaves were baked for 13 minutes with steam and then another 20 minutes. Note: Inadvertently, the whole bake was done with the convection fan on.

The loaves sang loudly as they cooled, and nice crust crackles developed.

I sliced the loaves after 3 hours. The crust was crunchy. The crumb was somewhat more open and, overall, less dense-seeming than the last 2 bakes. It was tender and chewy. The flavor of the bread was mildly tangy with a nice wheaty flavor. I really can't say it was noticeably different than the bake using fresh-milled whole wheat flour.

Bottom line: This is a delicious bread. It is similar to several of the breads I have been making from FWSY since last Summer with mixed flours, except that this bread has the highest percentage of whole grain flours. It is a type of bread that has become our favorite.

My next variations may be to add mixed seeds and cracked or flaked grains and to try a version with added dried fruit and nuts. I have also though about baking this bread in the Lodge Combo Cookers, as I bake Forkish's breads and the Tartine Basic Country Bread.

David

Comments

Syd's picture
Syd

Nice crackles on the crust there David.  It seems like you definitely got a slightly more open crumb on this one compared to the last bake.  (I went back and compared the pics.) However, did you perhaps get more volume/height on the previous bake than this one?  Difficult to tell because your crumb pic from the previous bake doesn't show a full cross section.  

I didn't carefully look at the formula last time, but I went back and looked at it today and noticed that it was an 86% hydration bread.  Egad!  That is about 10% higher than I am used to handling.  Would love to try this bread but would be a little wary of handling such a high hydration dough.  Your shaping skills are admirable.  Did it require using a lot of extra flour?  Is the dough prone to tearing?  

I always trust your opinions re: the taste of breads.  (SFBI miche comes to mind - still one of my favourites)!  If you say this one is good, then I want to try it.  Not sure that I want to mix an 86% hydration dough, though.  Do you think it would be sacrilegious if I changed that to, say, 80%?

Nice baking,

Syd 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I think the oven spring was about the same as previous bakes. Maybe a bit less.

I don't think a decrease in hydration would be a bad thing to try. If you do, let us know how it works for you. I didn't add much flour, just several dustings of my hands. The dough is prone to tearing, but I handle it very gently.

This bread is delicious, and I would encourage you to try it.

David

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

and great report ! I always bake in my cast iron pots. I broke the glass cover on one of my oven lights when I tried the lava rocks ....$84 later I decided to continue with pots ;)  It must have been a wayward splash but I am not going to try again !  

I need to get back to this formula and will bookmark this latest version. Sounds like you are busier in retirement than you were before :)  We are too !   c

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I think the Lodge cookers would yield terrific oven spring to this bread.

Parkinson's Law does apply to retirement. I keep busy, but I spend way more time online, practicing calligraphy and, maybe, baking bread. 

David

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

my storage capacity is increasing to meet the amount that I have to store...bread wise that is !  Love the Parkinson Theory...hadn't given it a thought in years but still holds true. Have a couple loaves in the oven so may post later. c

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

twas on to take th steam away though.  Josh has been baking his version with whole rye.  Yours is a medium rye, what ever that its, making the 86% hydration less 'manageable' and feel more wet  I'm surprised the crumb didn't open up more with the hand gluten development.  We like the 50% whole grains version of this bread taste wise,  at the same hydration as yours and is one of Lucy's favorites - it was pretty sticky too with the rye in the mix. 

Your further experiments with other grains and add ins should be rewarding too. . The crust on this one is crackly as can be and has to taste great.  It's just a great all around bread for so many uses.  Well done and

Happy baking  

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I think "medium rye" is almost whole grain, but not quite. I do have a couple brands of whole rye flour right now and also some rye berries I could mill. I may try whole rye.  How could it not be good?

I'm not sure I can get a more open crumb. There may be just too much bran in the dough.

David

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Crumb looks gorgeous in the second photo.  Maybe you can get your hands on some whole rye flour but it's still a slack dough with added stickiness from the 17% Rye.  As for shaping i highly suggest taking a Tartine style approach.  Use folds to create strength in the shape and degass less than a traditional shape and be as gentle yet firm as you can (essentially keep your hands off as much as possible or it'll stick).  I do a twist on a few different approaches.  It's important for a good bench rest so its very relaxed (I know this sounds like it would make it more difficult) so its extensible and you can stretch the dough without tearing.  

Hard to describe in words but I'll try.  Maybe I'll do a drawing or a video sometime soon.  

Turn preshape out on lightly floured surface.  Elongate into an oval as per usual.  Take bottom and stretch and bring up two thirds of the way and pat lightly.  Then from left and right being sure to extend as much as you can.  Now work from the bottom to the top sort of rolling and sealing lightly (2 to 3 motions is all you need before you seal).  Tighten up using a scraper and the tension from your table.  let rest on seam for a few minutes.  Flour top and turn into bowl.  Next time I make I'll try to make a video.  

Josh

This is very similar to much of the whole grains you have made and I have made in the past but there is some perfect balance with this loaf that makes it oh so good.  

Nice Bake

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

These loaves were shaped as boules. The oval end product is the result of the scoring pattern. I think this is a nice illustration of how the choice of scoring pattern can be used to alter the shape of a loaf. 

I mentioned how challenging this dough is to shape not as a complaint or a cry for help but as a "heads up" to others who might want to make this delicious bread. No one should say they weren't warned! ;-)

Thanks for your suggestions. I did use my bench knife to tighten the gluten sheath. I think that's the first time I've had to do that, I usually use the edge of my hands with quick, gentle but firm strokes with each hand, coupled with rotating the loaf. Hmmmm .... A video might be easier than trying to explain it in words.

I couldn't agree more regarding your description of "some perfect balance with this loaf that makes it oh so good." I didn't yet mention what fabulous toast it makes, though.

David

golgi70's picture
golgi70

From the look of it you had a fine time shaping.  I was just offering advice as the dough is not only slack but quite sticky so firm handling causes problems (or has for me).  I love the scoring and it looks like the proof was perfect this go around.  I'd love to see the finish in a combo cooker.  The crumb doesn't get much more open and doesn't need to be.  I think you nailed it.  It does make great toast.  It also lends very well to sandwiches aimed towards heartier ryes like a tuna melt or reuben.  Now I want a Tasty n Sons Reuben.  

Happy Baking

Josh

isand66's picture
isand66

Looks beautiful David.  Thanks for sharing your trials and successes.

Ian

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

Darwin's picture
Darwin

I hate sticky dough, you sure did well with it :)  Great crackling crust and crumb.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Embrace the sticky dough! <Did I really write that? Eeeewwwww!> Well, if you do, remember Josh's excellent advice: Do it quickly.

Thanks! It is very toothsome.

David

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Nice Job , David! no doubt this should make an excellent go-to bread. 

Khalid

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David