The Fresh Loaf

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dosco's picture
dosco

MDB

My kids were starting to complain about SD bread. So I made a loaf of My Daily Bread.

I went with a lower hydration on this one as well - in the KA the dough ball was only mildly sticky and the kneading hook certainly worked the dough over. It windowpaned after roughly 10 minutes of kneading.

Interestingly the final loaf was less crusty and slightly firm and springy. Hard to describe, but definitely less crusty than previous loaves.  It was cooked on a pizza stone at 500F for 10 minutes, then 450F for another 10 or so until golden and internal temp 205F.

Crumb was a bit on the fine side, oven spring was significant. I'm noticing that the SD cultures result in large holes in the crumb, and the use of commercial yeast results in a much finer crumb. Why is that?

The kids freaked out over the loaf, they loved it ... it was obliterated in about a day.

-Dave

 

Comments

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Dave, nice to see your progress. A few things to think about:

Crumb has to do mostly with dough development and hydration, and not much your choice of leavening (SD or commercial yeast).

If you want a fluffy, store-bought sandwich-bread-like interior, try kneading intensively for 10+ minutes in the KA mixer at moderate speed (speed #4), and keep the hydration somewhere between 60-65% (but no more than 70%). 

If you want a rustic interior with large holes, knead less (or not at all!) and use 4-6 stretch & folds instead, with 30-60 minutes in between each. In addition, choose a formula with dough hydration between 70-80%. 

You can have fluffy sandwich like SD, see txfarmer's posts about shreddably soft sourdough. 

dosco's picture
dosco

cranbo, thanks for the kind words and advice.

I like the big holes and airy crumb, but my experience with SD has been that less kneading/gluten development = flat loaves. I really like Dave Snyder's work but there is something that I am unable to replicate and/or I am missing something. I'm sure more practice will undoubtedly help(!).

-Dave

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Dave,

Are you using stretch & fold to develop dough instead of mixer kneading? If you read Dave Snyder's recipes (like this one for example: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/24078/san-joaquin-sourdough-update) you will see that he most often uses stretch & fold, or something similar. Also, the above recipe is around 76% hydration, which will give you big holes. 

If you're not using high hydration, and you're not using stretch and fold, you're not likely to get that big-holed, rustic crumb you're after. 

Take the SD out of the equation for now: try a high hydration bread with commercial yeast, use stretch and fold instead of kneading.

To do this with David's recipe above, adjust as follows: 

Active starter (100% hydration)

150 g

All Purpose flour (11.7% protein)

450 g

BRM Dark Rye flour

25 g

Whole Wheat flour

25 g

Water

360 g 380g

Sea Salt

10 g

Instant Yeast 

2.5 g

 

It won't be exactly the same (it will probably ferment more quickly than your sourdough), but you will likely get a texture more similar to what you are trying to achieve. Let us know how it goes. 

dosco's picture
dosco

Cranbo:

For this MDB loaf (picture on the first post on this blog entry) I used my Kitchen Aid mixer.

This morning I mixed up some flour, water, and 1 package of commercial yeast and let it sit to form a sponge ... I am planning on making english muffin dough tonight and cook tomorrow. My younger one wants "non-SD" bread.

I could use today's poolish in conjunction with your suggestion however there is a lot of yeast in there ... I was also checking out "Jason's Cocodrillo Ciabatta" which looks interesting. Anyways, I'll try your suggestion in the next few days.

Take a look at my blog post from this morning. I made a Tartine loaf which came out nicely, although I am still struggling to successfully incorporate all the variables in a complete/cooked loaf ... oven spring, open crumb, "ear," etc. I seem to be able to get some in a loaf, but not all.

Thanks for the help!

-Dave

 

dosco's picture
dosco

I forgot to include in that last response ... for the Tartine I used stretch and fold. I used a silicone spatula and stretched/folded in the KA mixing bowl.

I am thinking of high hydration and S&F for english muffins ... ... ...

-Dave