The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Hamelman’s 5 grain rye sourdough, and Pastry # 7

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Mebake's picture
Mebake

Hamelman’s 5 grain rye sourdough, and Pastry # 7

The practical classes have finally commenced after a 3 week halt due re-location. We have had the cold desserts last weekend, featuring popular desserts such as Pana Cotta, fruit flavored cold soufflés, and Mousses, in addition to crepes, fruit fritters, and rice pudding.  Most desserts featured below contain gelatine to set them. It goes without saying that everything was exceptionally delicious! We have still few classes left for cold desserts then we’ll be off to hot desserts and later chocolate.

Clockwise from left to right: Orange souffle, Chocolate Cousse, Mango and bluberry mousse, Pana cotta, and lemon souffle.

For bread, i wanted to bake loaves that are reasonably sour, but not chewy. I chose Rye sourdough with 5 grains from Hamleman's (BREAD). I've also decided to try baking them on aluminum baking sheets instead of a stone in hope of reducing crust thickness.

I have blogged about this bread before here. This time, however,  I’ve deviated from Hamelman’s recipe in more than a way. I’ve skipped yeast and honey, increased flaxseeds, and replaced rolled oats with fine corn meal. Also, I’ve folded the dough twice in bulk, and retarded the dough in bulk for 18 hours.

The dough has expanded considerably in the fridge. During preshaping, and shaping the dough was overly sticky, but succumbed to final shaping with no tears. I suspected that the long cold fermentation with 25% prefermented flour would lead to some gluten breakdown, and I was right. The loaves's cuts did not open cleanly and the final crumb was somewhat tighter.

The bread had a faint sourness, with prominent multigrain presence. My only regret was that I should have either reduced the pre-fermented flour to accommodate an extended refrigeration, or I should have retarded overnight. The bread loses too much of its character when subtle changes are made. As to sheet baking,the crust was slightly softer which made me happy. I'll play around with potential variables and observe the results.

-Khalid

Comments

annie the chef's picture
annie the chef

I personally don't really enjoy some of desserts set with gelatine, I just don't like the bouncy texture. In a pastry kitchen, we used gelatine for most of cold desserts and cakes (we even put in lemon curd and whipped cream). Gelatine helps to hold their shapes if they are to be displayed on the buffet table for a few hours at room temperature.

The crumb of your loaves look fine.  Hope the sourness will go away in the next day or two.

Thank you for sharing Khalid.

Annie

 

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thank you, Annie!

I'm looking forward to making some layered mousse cakes for the kids.

The loaves weren't sour, rather, they had a complex lactic flavors. 

-Khalid

isand66's picture
isand66

Beautiful desserts Khalid.  Look forward to reading about your chocolates and hot desserts.

I'm happy to see you experimenting and learning with this rye bread recipe.  Even though its not perfect I'm sure the next one will and the mean time it still looks pretty darn good to me :). It's a testament to your baking expertise to be able to make subtle changes and turn out a final product so nice.

Regards

Ian

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Ian!

Lucky for me i mixed my rye sour at its prime, so this must have saved the dough in the refrigerator.

Chocolate is up next. 

-Khalid

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

looking deserts and the bread isn't too bad either.  I like the way this one came out and the long retard should help the tang some.  This is one hearty and healthy bread!  Well done.and

Happy baking Khalid.

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, DA!

It was a good bread that disappeared so quickly.

-Khalid

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hi Khalid,
I love the photo of your three loaves on the round bread board, complemented by the concentric pattern of the tablecloth.
I think the crumb on your bread looks great! & like how you baked on a sheet pan, as a way to soften the crust.
Those desserts belong on the table of a five-star restaurant, so gorgeously plated, cocoa stenciling too!
:^) breadsong

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, breadsong

This is actually a carpet :) 

It worked, but i need other means to soften it further. 

True! The desserts are 5 star.

-Khalid

golgi70's picture
golgi70

That Rye looks stellar.  I've been contemplating doing every bread in his book as my new project. I finally broke down and bought my first book in some time and it was "Bread"  Best purchase in a long time.  Nice plated desserts too.  One of my favorite sections in pastry school for sure.  Chocolate was my favorite though.  Hope you get a chance to make some bon bons, truffles, and candies.  

Josh

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Josh!

(Bread) is such a good reference for recipes. Have you been to a pastry school?

-Khalid

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Went to the French Culinary Institute for Pastry Arts in NYC and got my certification in 2005-6. Then moved to Northern California just days after finishing. Had a job lined up with a bread bakery that had plans for a pastry shop. Got interviewed and hired the day I arrived. But as much as I love pastry the bread won me over and I opted to not work at the pastry shop and stay with bread.  Bread is the first thing I ever baked (16 years ago) in my first college apartment. It was challah and it was so fun to mske. Now I'm at a different bakery where I managed both pastry and bread. What's next?  We shall see. I bet it's full of whole grain and wild yeast. 

Josh

Mebake's picture
Mebake

So, that makes you a pro. baker! It really shows from the beautiful breads you showcase for farmers market.

I, too, prefer bread over pastry, but one cannot survive in the commercial world without some basic knowledge in pastry.

All the best of luck to you.

and Happy holidays, Josh!

-Khalid

 

Darwin's picture
Darwin

The bread and plated deserts look great, well done!  

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks so much , Darwin!

-Khalid

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Hi Khalid,

I will not let my children see the photos of your deserts….too enticing!  I am amazed by how much you have learned in such a short time.  They certainly are moving you along at a fast clip!

Bread looks really tasty too.  They held their shape nicely despite how you described the final dough.  I know in one of my seeded loaves, I think it was one posted by lumos awhile ago, it is the seeds that cause the disruptions in the dough.  I have yet to figure out why that particular formula acts the way it does when other seeded loaves do not….maybe someday I will get it figured out but I am not too worried about it since I have many others that do work well :)  Just another bread mystery.

Thanks for the post and your great photos!

Take Care,

Janet

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Janet!

I'm going to have to cut back on desserts, i'm gaining weight!

Yep, time is flying. Their lessons are very intensive during the week ends: 9:30 - 4:30. You get to make around 8 types of pastries every week, and it is daunting.

i think that the high prefermented flour damaged my dough structure more than the seeds. I've baked heavily seeded  loaves before with no issues.

You are always welcome!

-Khalid

ananda's picture
ananda

 is just about 5 star Khalid,

Crumb is spot-on, and nice plated desserts too.

I wonder whether you think the lack of conducted heat had any impact on the cuts did not open cleanly as you note?   Convection often fails to produce such attractive bloom and spring as seen when more bottom heat is available.

All good wishes

Andy

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Andy!

Yes, it is obvious to me now that i've baked them on sheet. What has exacerbated the effect was the slight weakness of the dough due to extended refrigeration.

-Khalid

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Perfect loaves and even more amazing desserts!  Wow Khalid.

This bread is a staple in my home.

John

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thank you , john!

It will be a regular bake for me from now on.

-Khalid

proth5's picture
proth5

'nuff said

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thank you, Pat!

-Khalid

varda's picture
varda

Pastry number 7 looks amazing.   And gorgeous loaves as well.  -Varda

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thank you , Varda!

Appreciate your kind words.

-Khalid

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Khalid,

My apologies for not commenting till now but wanted to say how much I've been enjoying these pastry class posts of yours. Like Josh, the pastry and cake section of my own formal training was my favourite of all of them. Seeing the fun your having brings back some very pleasant memories of that time, so thank you for sharing your experiences on these pages. Your desserts and plating are elegant and top notch, well done!

Your 5 Grain Rye looks excellent, particularly the crumb, which is a thing of beauty. As far as the cuts not opening the way you wanted, or "cleanly", getting a nice even cut on a bread full of seeds/grains can be difficult with the grains getting in the way of the blade. Scissors are often more effective for scoring these kinds of breads, a good example of which is photo #20 in Hamelman's "Bread" along with his instructions and illustrations on pg 81. Much easier to get a distinctive look to a grain bread with this method than any other way I've tried.

Looking forward to your next instalment Khalid, all the best.

Franko