The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Bosch Universal vs Ankarsrum

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Suza's picture
Suza

Bosch Universal vs Ankarsrum

I'm looking for a quality mixer, mostly for bread, but would like to be able to use it for all my baking.  I currently have an older KA  (K5SS), one made by Hobart, but it isn't much use for making bread, especially whole wheat, with only 300 watts of power, and then only one or two loaves at a time.  I also don't like the overhead motor which makes it hard to add ingredients or check mixing progress.

I'm considering either the Bosch Universal or the Ankarsrum.  I hear comments about them not being good for small batches and/or for cookies, etc.  I will often make several loaves of bread at a time, but will sometimes make one or two specialty loaves (ie: Rye, sweet bread, etc).  I also do a lot of other baking, especially during the holidays. 

Before I spend $400-700, I'm trying to do as much research as I can.  I'd appreciate all suggestions, input and experiences from you all, pros and cons, etc.  Thanks.

 

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I always point folks to Mike Avery's Mixer Throwdown, which is the best side-by-side comparison of those two I've seen.

Personally, I've not used the Bosch.  I'm using an Ankarsrum Assistent now and am very very happy with it.

I was worried about it not working well on small batches, but I've been able to mix a dough with a single pound of flour just fine.  No problem making cookies, frosting, or whipped cream with the other attachments either.  And it doesn't break a sweat when I've mix 1.5kg of moderately stiff dough.   

Prior to getting this I was using a KitchenAid Classic, which was great as an entry level machine but really doesn't compare.  

chris319's picture
chris319

My tip is to watch videos of these mixers in action on YouTube. There is no shortage of videos of people showing off their mixers and they are illuminating.

I would love to own a DLX/Electrolux Assistent but $700 is a little rich for my blood.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Suza, I have used the Bosch Compact, original Universal ( which is basically the same as the plus, except the plus has additional speeds) the Bosch Concept, and the Assistent  ( all but the Compact were purchased used on Ebay).  Overall, the Compact is the winner for handling small dough considering its purchase price.  If money is no object, the Assistent is a thing of beauty, and will handle much bigger loads than the compact.   The compact starts to walk around when using a recipe of 1 pound of whole wheat flour, ( for a 2 pound loaf )  at 100% hydration.   I did a  baguette in the Assistent this weekend using white flour -  300 grams of flour in total, and it handled that fine, so I think it will handle small loads -  though following Hammelman's instructions, I did not knead it to a window pane. If you have a particular small recipe in mind, let me know what it is, and I will try it this weekend.  I don't have the double beater bowl or hooks, so can't comment on that.

MoiDiodio's picture
MoiDiodio

Hi Barryvabeach, have you tried dryer dough in the Bosch compact? I do small batches for just two of us and I normally make much dryer dough. I'm wondering whether it's going to burn the mixer... Thanks!

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Moidiodio,  I usually use 100% whole wheat, so it is pretty uncommon for me to work with dryer doughs - I assume you mean a bagel recipe. If you want to send me a recipe, I can certainly try it for you.  I don't think it is possible to burn out a Compact.   In this link on pizzamaking, a user said they have gone as low as 55% hydration with the Compact with no problem.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17862.msg175749.html#msg175749

There is also a video which is on that site, though I can't find it now, of someone in Italy making a very hydration dough where they run the Compact nonstop for over 20 minutes, and end up developing a ton of gluten, so I think it can handle anything you throw at it.  

MoiDiodio's picture
MoiDiodio

Besides high hydration loaves, I also knead doughs for asian steam buns which have as low as ~52% hydration. I used to knead by hand and I am thinking about  getting a mixer to save some labor. Thanks for the link about the pizza dough. Might get a compact as it also fits in my budget. Thanks!

LindyD's picture
LindyD

As a happy owner of a Bosch compact who mixes Jeffrey Hamelman's bagel formula (Sir Lancelot high gluten flour at 58% hydration) at least weekly, I can report that the Bosch doesn't even get warm.  

Have been using the compact for about three years now - no issues whatsoever.

 

MoiDiodio's picture
MoiDiodio

Good to know! :)

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Moidiodio, the biggest problem with the Compact is finding it.  For months at a time, all the retailers will have it, then some will have it, then for months no one has one available - and prices go shooting up, until a new shipment arrives.   I am sure you will like it, it looks like a toy at first, but it really works well. 

MoiDiodio's picture
MoiDiodio

Amazon is carrying it $199 with free shipping now. But it also says that only 12 in stock. I might need to order soon. 

FreshGoose's picture
FreshGoose

Pleasant Hill Grain has them as well http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/bosch_compact_mixers.aspx

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

I have used both KA and Bosch Univeral and Universal Plus. My KA was solid but with bigger batches or lower hydration was straining to the point of almost dying. In order to preserve my KA the Bosch was put into duty and at first I wasn't very happy with it. I know some people complain about its inability to handle smaller portions but my complaints were more focused on that damn column,dough creep and clean up.Every single complaint I had was solved for good with the purchase of the stainless bowl with the bottom mounted stainless hook.Handles absolutely everything I have thrown at it and the suction cup feet keep it from walking with large loads. That said, the additional bowl is $169 in addition to the $429 so you are all in close to $600. I would love to give the DLX a test drive but another $700 spent on a mixer is not in my immediate future,but people who own them really love them. Good Luck..Matt

PS It does do a great job with cookies..but does once again requires cookie paddles with metal drive $35 cakes yes..batter whisks $15 plus scraper blades $22...but I do reccomend it highly

richkaimd's picture
richkaimd

I've owned a DLX, purchased at an estate sale over a decade ago, and used it for my mixing of baked goods ever since.  Despite lots of wear, it still looks new.  Anyway, I love it for small and large amounts.  It's solid as a rock on the counter so it never "walks".  I can leave the room without fear when I want something to mix while I answer a door bell. I've never used any of the attachments other than the dough hook and the roller, both of which are great.  Sometimes when I'm feeling nostalgic I take out my old KA, use it, and realize that having the DLX is so much easier.

babybaker's picture
babybaker

I currently have a bosch universal and an ancient (i think it's 40 year old) dlx..   

they are both great.  The column on the bosch was why I originally went with a kitchenaid, but my kitchenaid just couldn't handle whole grain dough.  

I really like the dlx, but I don't like it as much for cookies and such,  not that it doesn't do a fine job but I am working on teaching my kids to cook and bake and the dlx isn't as intuitive.  It's much harder to tell my 10 year old to make cookies using it so I got a bosch because it is a little easier to use (I may be jaded, but that is what my mom used in my childhood so I was more comfortable with it).   I also found these handy little guards for the bosch called a dough glide.  They are under 50cents but the keep the dough from getting into the center portion of the column and make clean up much easier.

I have done small batches in both machines and they both will work.  It may require a little more watching on your part to initially bring the ingredients together, but the will both work.  

The DLX does not walk, which is really great.  Although I think I did once have it walk a little bit on some massive batch I was trying.  ( I think it was 8 loaves of whole wheat or some such ridiculous amount).

The new bosch has suction cups on the bottom so it is rock solid as well.

Storage, I am able to keep my bosch in a bottom drawer, but the DLX is too tall for that so it is relegated to the back of a closet.  

They both have a bit of a learning curve to get things down.  I have over processed dough in my bosch in the summer when it was hot, but i find that I am more likely to get an underdeveloped gluten in the DLX.  Both of these are easy to rectify by paying more attention, but that is the whole reason I used a stand mixer, so I can walk away.  The underdeveloped gluten is rectifiable while the over developed is not.

Suza's picture
Suza

Babybaker:

What do you mean by the column on the Bosch?

babybaker's picture
babybaker

The middle of the  bowl where the dough hook/beaters attach is what I was referring to as the column.  It has little holes that can get filled with dough as you knead if your dough climbs the column.  The dough glide helps keep the dough out of the holes.

Suza's picture
Suza

Thanks, babybaker.  I can see where this "column" would be annoying.  I'm accustomed to my KA, so I didn't think about the drive shaft in the middle of the bowl and the dough getting stuck there.  Perhaps this is why the Cuisinart food processor has a sleeve around the drive shaft.  It helps keep things from getting gummed up. 

More and more, I'm leaning toward the DLX.  Added bonus: I can get the orange one to match my "Flame" Le Creuset pots!  Bosch only comes in boring white, unless I've missed something.

Thanks, everyone, for many helpful suggestions.

Suza's picture
Suza

Thank you, everyone, for all the great advice.  Right now I am leaning toward the DLX, but keep those comments coming.  I have a little time before I need to tell DH what I want for Christmas!

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

The Bosch does do a lousy job on small batches of bread dough. It also does a lousy job of creaming butter using the included wire whisks, unless, perhaps, you have a lot of butter. Same thing for whipping cream or egg whites. There is an insert available for smaller batches, but I don't have it. The Bosch does do a great job creaming butter if you have the cookie paddles, which costs extra.

All-in-all, making the Bosch able to tackle any mixing task requires spending a lot of extra money on accessories.

Pilot baker's picture
Pilot baker

Hi everyone, I'm new member but have been reading posts here for a long time!  I'm an avid amateur baker and have owned a bosch universal for @ 10 years.  It's been an absolutely reliable performer and makes incredible bread dough.  

My mom gave me the machine when she got a DLX at an estate sale.  I have used both machines and they're honestly about equal imho!  Love them both!

However, about 6 months ago I purchased a new kitchenaid (I've always secretly wanted one) model ksm7586 candy apple red for $549 and a $50 mail in rebate.  Its a 7 quart lift bowl design with a 500 watt motor and come with a 5 year bumper to bumper hassle free warranty!!  

I was reading your post about buying a new mixer and I knew I had to comment!  This kitchenaid is a completely new design that defies all we know about the junk kitchenaid has been producing since whirlpool apparently bought them out.  I even took mine apart to see how it was made and it's nothing like the pictures of the "professional" models u see online.

First of all, it's super quiet.  the bowl is wide and easy to add ingredients as well as having a really nice handle on the side.  It's puny 500 watt motor somehow powers thru 18 cups of flour like it's not even there!  But here's the best part and the reason why I love this mixer so Much; cleanup is a breeze compared to either of the other two.  just wipe the dough hook, wash bowl and all done!  (I hate cleanup!!)

The kitchenaid is literally good for everything big or small job.  It easily whips just 1 egg white, or makes 1 dozen cookies, or makes 5 loaves of bread...ect.

Sadly, the bosch hasn't come out since I got my kitchenaid.  It's a truly awesome machine.  The 5 year warranty speaks for the build quality as well.  it looks great sitting on the counter so we haven't even put it away and everyone in the house suddenly wants to cook haha!  

As stated above, i still love the bosch and the dlx and know they are really good investments for anyone who makes a lot of bread.  I would say the kitchenaid is better at mixing literally everything and is also a stout bread dough mixer as well as having a great warranty.  My model is the ksm7586 and I can't imagine life without it!  Anyone considering a new mixer should consider this model of kitchenaid unless the ONLY thing u make is bread then I would say the bosch is the best investment for the money.

Good luck and hope u enjoy whatever u end up with!

Suza's picture
Suza

Thanks for the KA info.  If I didn't already have one (an older Hobart built K5SS), I would probably consider this.  I still love mine, and will continue to use it for small baking tasks, but my new mixer will be my bread mixer.  Haven't decided, for sure yet, if it will be a Bosch or an Assistant.

I do envy you the red KA!  Mine is the boring ivory/almond/cream/off-white (whatever it's called).

Thanks for your input.

 

Suza's picture
Suza

For Pilot Baker:

I have a question about making bread with your new KA.  When I mix more than one loaf of bread in my K5SS, the dough tends to ride up the hook and over the round top piece where it gums up the drive shaft.  Mine is a 5 quart.  Do you have this problem with your 7 qt. model?  

Another thing I remember not liking about my KA is that I have to use the splash guard or flour flies out when adding during kneading.  It is also difficult to access cookie batters if the bowl needs scraping.  It is sometimes hard to get the beaters out after mixing.  My old KA was a tilt-top, so access was easier. 

Do you find this to be less of a problem with the larger mixer?  I see they also have a paddle with a scraper edge.  Do you have one of these?  Does it do a good job of scraping the bowl and mixing in dry ingredients, like for cookie dough?

I'm going to look on-line for demos of your model.  I guess it is highly recommended by Cook's Illustrated.

Thanks for taking time to share your experiences.

Pilot baker's picture
Pilot baker

I have a friend who has a k5a which is the same as the k5ss (her machine is why I always wanted a kitchenaid) and she uses the same style dough hook that came with mine it's a spiral design.  I will admit the hook that came with her machine is a poor design and doesn't do a good job.  The spiral dough hook design is nothing short of a miracle and makes the most amazing bread dough!  And to answer your question directly,  the dough stays down in the bowl because the hook is designed to push it down so dough doesn't ride up or even "cling" to the hook for that matter.

As far as things splashing out, I have never used my splash shield and this has never been a problem (more of a problem with my bosch) with my new mixer,  It has much better speed control and starts out very slowly then ramps up.  My bosch makes a huge mess if it isn't used with the bowl cover. 

The kids use the kitchenaid without a mess if that tells u anything.  Also, we use a flexedge beater (amazing invention) and also use it to scrape the material out of the bowl if you are making cake batter...ect  as it comforms perfectly to the shape of the bowl!  Never scrape again!  Also,  the kitchenaid 3qt, 5qt(wide), and 6qt bowls all fit this machine with the same beaters.

As far as adding ingredients goes,  the bowl is pretty wide and this doesn't seem to be a problem at all.  I have noticed on the k5a the distance between the bowl and the motor is pretty small especially when the bowl is "up". 

getting back to the dough hook, I really feel your frustration with the climbing dough thing because I've witnessed the old style hook in action,  not pretty.  I just made 6 loaves of bread with the new mixer all I did was throw in all the ingredients except 2 cups of flour which I added most of as needed and never touched it till it was all kneaded,  about 7 minutes. 

There's several things about this kitchenaid that really stand out to me, and sorry if I'm writing to much I just really like gadgets and machinery and wouldn't cook without them!  This mixer is so simple using just one type of bowl for everything,  mixes all types of stuff with ease, the entire unit and attachments stores in one little corner, and is entirely made in the USA as far as I can tell(I took it apart to see and all the parts say mfg usa)+++! 

combining all my experiences,  here is a short list of my opinionated pros and cons of the mixers.  I will not comment on the k5a bowl lift any further than I already have as I haven't personally used it very much.

Bosch universal:

pros:

long lasting reliability and durability, makes a huge amount of dough batch after batch without a complaint, a really good value for the ardent bread, pizza, and bagel dough baker.  can be had for $399 new with a 3yr warranty. (recommend pleasanthillgrain.com) I have bought attachments and they are great!  Lots of versatile attachemets if that is what you are looking for.

cons:

messy! messy! messy!  doesn't do well with very small batches.  Poor job at cookie dough and cake batters and meringues (didn't realize till having a kitchenaid!).  Takes up way to much space with all the extra pieces for the whisks and cookie beaters and dough hook and stuff.  Cleanup is a nightmare if dough gets up into the center pedestal.

overall:

Great mixer and overall good value for a dedicated bread dough maker and will last a lifetime!

DLX Original:

Pros:

Nice open bowl design.  Great for bread dough, super reliable, quiet and fashionable!  Doesn't splash ingredients when started and easy access to what you are mixing.  Makes HUGE quantities! Scraper attachment for revolving bowl.  Also works well with small amounts.  Tons of attachments. (again, pleasanthillgrains.com) 5yr motor warranty.

Cons:

Expensive! Cleanup is kind of a chore but not as bad as the Bosch.  Two different types of bowls and attachments for each,  storage and space nightmare!  Customer service is a joke. 

Overall:

A really great mixer if you have the money and space.  Makes a huge quantity of anything really well if you need it to.  won't bog down with even the stiffest dough.  A truly awesome kitchen appliance.

Kitchenaid KSM7586

Pros:

Everything!!  Looks great.  Fun to use.  Mixes ingredients without having to scrape or otherwise interfere (flexedge beater). Did I mention fun to use?  Huge awesome handle on bowl.  Made in the good 'ol USA.  One bowl and three simple beaters store a small area of the kitchen.  Constant compliments.  makes amazing bread dough with ease(though not as much as the dlx or bosch is capable of).  5yr warranty.  Mixes tiny quantities just as well as huge ones. easy cleanup.  EXCEPTIONAL customer service by Kitchenaid!  USA based company will rush to please so that is nice.  lots of attachments if needed. Parts are easily available if needed.

Cons:

Kitchenaid has bad reputation after years of poor quality.  Probably not as robust as the dlx or bosch in the long run if all you make is yeast dough day after day.  doesn't have a timer.  Cant be put away because it looks to awesome on the counter!  Overhead design blocks top of bowl more than the others.

Overall,  I think it's the best all around kitchen mixer if you make more than just yeast dough.  Tough enough to handle any job and built to last, this mixer is fun to use, efficient on space and looks great too!  Really good dough hook design makes yeast dough a breeze.

Between the Bosch and the DLX,  I think the DLX is a better mixer for everything.  The Bosch is a better Value though so if you don't have the money for a DLX, get the Bosch you won't be disappointed.

Hope this helps and I didn't ramble to much. 

Suza's picture
Suza

Pilot Baker:

Thanks to your comprehensive reply, I feel I am closer to deciding on a mixer. 

I'm almost 100% certain I do not want the Bosch.  Although I know it's a sturdy machine, and I have seen it in operation, the inadequacy with small batches, cookies, cakes, etc, messy operation, and center drive shaft have pushed it to the bottom of my list.  I think it would pretty much be just a bread mixer for me and I would continue to use my K5 for other baking.  And, in light of my bad experience with LG appliances, I just can't forget the LG built motor :)

The DLX is a bit of a puzzle.  After watching videos of its operation, I was enamored with the operation of this machine (not to mention the unique styling and selection of colors).  It's ability to mix large batches of bread dough with ease, the open bowl for easy access to contents; and the heavy duty construction are very appealing.  However, I hesitate to pay $700 for a machine without seeing it in person.  Then I found out, my DIL has an older Electrolux Assistant, handed down by her father when he recently purchased a Bosch Universal Plus. 

I am impressed with the quality of the machine, although I would expect this, considering the price.  I did think the control knobs were not equal in quality to the rest of the machine (I would expect them to be metal, not plastic); the on/off knob did not have a dedicated on position, but relied on a flimsy feeling timer; perhaps this has changed with newer models.  Can you tell me about the controls on your machine?  The rest of the machine seem very well built.  

Unfortunately, DIL's machine is 10-20 (?) yrs old. The locking mechanism on the overhead arm will not hold the roller against the side of the bowl (???).  In addition, she doesn't have the dough hook (her dad is hunting for it).  In order to make bread, you have to push the arm against the side of the bowl to get the roller in contact with the dough.  I tried a batch of oatmeal cookies in the big bowl, but had to make a double batch to get the butter to cream.  Because the roller won't lock, I ended up mixing them in the batter bowl with the whips.  This worked great, even after adding the oats.  I haven't tried bread, yet, but I don't think I will.  Since her machine isn't functioning as intended, I'm not able to make a fair assessment of its performance.  

I have concerns about the malfunction of the locking mechanism.  Also, there was a lot of black residue where the drive shaft attached to the motor (grease?)  The machine is old and was used heavily for bread making, but these things concern me, especially after your comment regarding poor customer service and, of course the high price tag.  I understand Pleasant Hill Grains has a 30-day money back return policy.  This is the only way I would consider purchasing the DLX, though I am still not convinced it is the machine for me. 

Other observations regarding the DLX:

The SS bowl was a bit cumbersome, compared to the KA bowl.  No handle makes it more difficult to position on the drive, and the overhead arm has to be moved out of the way (compared to lowering the bowl on the KA).  The bowl is beautiful and made of a superior grade of SS.

The scraper did a good job of cleaning the sides of the bowl.  Does the "Flex Blade" on the KA compare to this?

Operation was relatively quiet; quieter than my K5.  How would you compare the noise level of the  KSM7586 to the DLX?  Reviews say it is quieter than previous KAs..

DLX fits under my overhead cabinets when on the counter.  I can't seem to find, online, the height of the KSM7586, but I expect it is taller than my K5 which barely fits under the cabinet (18" clearance).

DLX has enough weight to keep it in place, but not too heavy to manage; large rubber feet seem to keep it secure.

Your comments on the KA mixers are very helpful.  I especially appreciate the comparison to the K5.  Thanks!

A few questions:

Is the KSM7586 truly made in US, or are parts made in US and machine assembled elsewhere? 

Is the flexedge beater optional or does it come with the machine?  I would definitely want one.

My biggest complaint about the K5 is poor access to the bowl when in the lifted position.  From what you tell me, the wider bowl on the 7586 makes access easier? 

Mixing bread - How does the 7586 perform with heavier, WW dough? (I grind my own flour). How much WW dough will it handle at a time?  I'm happy making 4 loaf batches.  Any problems with the motor heating up with extended use?  During the holidays, I will often make several batches of breads and cookies at a time.

I have had two KA mixers.  My first was a tilt-head (I don't remember the model) from the early 1980's.  It served me well, but the speed control went out and I never had it repaired.

My current mixer is a Hobart built K5SS, inherited from my step-mom.  I like it except for the limited access to the bowl;  even with the bowl in the "down" position, it is hard to disengage the beater.  And it doesn't handle whole wheat dough well (and has the "old style" dough hook).  Both of these machines held up well to occasional use of the food grinder attachment.

I haven't experienced any of the inferior KA mixers, perhaps because mine were both older machines.  Or, I didn't push them past their limits.  I hope KA has finally produced a quality machine with the 7586.

Another question:  You mention that several sizes of bowls will fit the 7586.  Would you recommend getting one of the smaller bowls in addition to the 7 qt? 

Not as important, but does the 7586 come in flashy colors?  I'd like an orange one to match my Le Creuset "Flame" pans :)

Thanks, so much,  for taking time to discuss mixers.  I hope to nail down my choice soon because my DH is beginning to ask me what I want for Christmas!

 

 

 

 

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

You say, "The locking mechanism on the overhead arm will not hold the roller against the side of the bowl (???)." However, the arm is not supposed to lock against the bowl. The locking mechanism adjusts the roller's minimum distance from the bowl's side. There is a spring (torsion bar) in the upright that presses the roller to the bowl side while allowing it to be pushed away by the bowl's content or by hand.

I suspect, from your comment, that this spring has broken or become disengaged. This is a critical component. I believe I have seen that it is user fixable. Don't rely on my dying memory cells, call Pleasant Hill Grain's 800 number, found here. These are really nice, helpful people to deal with.

Switching subjects, another  commenter suggested that DLX storage was an issue. While I leave mine on the counter, the second bowl holds its attachments, drive shaft, planetary gears and two sets of whisks, and fits easily onto a cupboard shelf, while the stainless steel bowl does likewise with its roller, scraper, and dough hook. Either way, it's one on the machine and one in the cupboard, and either way it looks good in my kitchen I fail to see a problem.

cheers,

gary

Suza's picture
Suza

Gary,

Thanks for the information regarding the spring in the arm.  I don't have a manual, so wasn't sure exactly how the arm was supposed to work - just knew it wasn't working correctly.  Sounds like it might be an easy fix.  I will give Pleasant Hill Grains a call.  They will be nice to me . . . . I just ordered a Komo grain mill from them :)

FreshGoose's picture
FreshGoose

Grease will come out of any mixer.  There's any articles and videos online of it coming out of Kitchenaids.  Just with the DLX it's never going to get into your food since it's under the bowl.  Same with Bosch UP.  KA though can leak into your food as it works. 

FreshGoose's picture
FreshGoose

Why is customer service a joke?

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Pilot Baker,  thanks for your excellent review.  I have owned a wide variety of mixers, and think your review is right on the money -  about the only thing you didn't cover was the different attachments for each, though I am not that big a fan of the attachments and prefer stand alone, like a food processor.  

Suza, don't hunt too long for the dough hook.  Many suggest not to use it.  I have used the roller for hydrations from below 60 to in the 90's, and for a dough ball of 180 grams, and the roller scraper worked fine.  I tried the dough hook once and it did not seem to develop the gluten as quickly ( high hydration, about 900 grams of dough ) and put it back in the attic. As Gary suggests, there is something wrong with the DIL's machine.  The springs holds the scraper against the bowl, the lock allows you to lock it slightly away from the side of the bowl to allow the dough to be pressed between the bowl and the roller.  If you check the breadbeckers video, you can see her push the arm to the center, and then she lets it go and it moves back to the edge of the bowl on its own.

Pilot baker's picture
Pilot baker

Totally agree about the dlx knobs, however it hasn't really been a problem.  My moms is also an older version and also has grease that oozes out some.  Grease will ooze out of any mixer if used hard enough I believe.  Also, everything about the dlx is just way more cumbersome to use than ur KA.  

Ive found out with mine why the ka design is so popular.  Ease of use, cleaning, storage, and fun factors are way up there compared to other mixers.

The ksm7586 is probably a little louder than the dlx, though I've never run them side by side.  As u said, the dlx has problems with very small amounts where the ka does not.  KA has made ww with ease and I think the dough is smoother and just "poofier" than what I'm used to. The motor has never gotten hot or even warm.  

the flex edge beater is an option and definitely get it!  Also, I would skip the 6 qt and get the 5 qt bowl if u wanted an extra.  These bowls are all much wider and adding ingredients is really easy.  the machine is 16.5" high, the same as all kitchenaid lift bowl machines including yours.  There is also a wide range of color options to make you happy.

the dlx arm is spring loaded and the spring can break over time.  Service is handled directly thru ankarsrum and don't be surprised if it's 2 weeks before they get back to you!  Terrible service IMHO.

I also agree that the roller and scraper work really good for yeast doughs and the dough hook is uneeded.  the ankarsrum is a fantastic machine and I really can't imagine u sending it back if u decide on it.  

I'm sure the ka has parts that are made overseas in it.  I have actually disassembled my machine almost entirely and it was super easy to work on.  I love knowing how stuff works. Most of the parts didn't say anything on them but the motor has a sticker that said USA and the switch assembly also the same.  I took the whole thing apart with just a Philips screwdriver so if it ever need repair I know it would be super easy and parts are readily available. 

That being said, if you like the ankarsrum and are enamored with it, get that one.  It is likely to make you very happy and u have a k5ss to back it up for general mixing.  Sure, the company has lousy service, but it's not likely to break if u dont abuse it.  The bowl is cumbersome and there are more pieces but it will make lots of nice dough for 200 years without fail.  And it could mix concrete for a new patio.  Haha, jk!

My point is, get the one u WANT, they are both fantastic and will not dissapoint.  

oh yea, one more answer to a question.  the beaters for the ksm7 go on and off really easy since they discontinued putting the spring on the shaft where they go.  That and the wider bowls make it a snap.

go with ur gut and get the one you are excited to have,  it's always fun to get new toys!

sorry for this scatterbrained reply an I hope I've answered your questions!

Suza's picture
Suza

Still more great information to help with my decision.  I am going to see if I can find a KSM7586 to try.  I watched one video presentation on the Internet.  It was making a very large batch of cookie dough.  The user had to lower the bowl several times during mixing to scrape the bowl (though it didn't look like she was using the scraper blade) and flour flew out of the bowl when added, gradually, to the creamed mixture. 

I may very well do, as you suggest - get the DLX and keep my KA for smaller tasks.  In the meantime, I'm going to search online for demo videos of the KSM7586 and look for someone local who might be able to demo it for me.

Thanks, again, for your input.  I'm getting anxious, but I want to make the best choice.

Pilot baker's picture
Pilot baker

Here's a great thread about a guy that bought a ksm7990.  It's identical to the ksm7586 & ksm7581 but only comes in white.  Also the ksm8990 is the same machine with a bigger bowl.  The thread has comparison pictures of the professional 600 style (junk) and the commercial/proline style guts so u can see what they look like.  Also has some videos if it running:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/31108/yakasmt-yet-another-kitchen-aid-stand-mixer-thread

and a few video links that might be helpful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5beSlMCTnBE

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn0VI13AaMw

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lXg52OjZhTo

the last video is actually a European model and it's called the artisan over there.  also,  I have only added ingredients from those really cheap paper plates with any mixer I use so I haven't had a problem with this mixer although it has a nice open bowl compared to older ones.  I have watched the cookie recipe video by Williams Sonoma where the flower splashed out b4 buying mine but this is nothing compared to the bosch which slings every ingredient in the bowl all over the kitchen if it decides to.  Also,  I never turn off any machine to add flour, I just add it in slowly as it mixes ( with a paper plate, or course ).  The flex edge does the rest and thrre is no need to stop the mixer save from over mixing. 

Hope the videos help, cause there isnt many on these heavy duty kitchenaids.  The only retail store that has them in stock that I found was kitchen collection as these have only been sold commercially to bakery's and such in the past.

theres tons of videos on the ankarsrum tho so hope these help!

chris319's picture
chris319

It occurs to me that an advantage of KitchenAids is that they are easily serviced by the user. For example, it is a snap to replace the motor brushes on a KitchenAid. Motor brushes, by their very nature, eventually wear out. With other brands you'd have to get it to a service center and wait to have it worked on.

Theresse's picture
Theresse

Suza, have you experimented more or made any decisions?  I'm in the same boat (well, between the Ankarsrum and the Bosh) which is why I ask.  And in fact a friend loaned me his older DLX and tonight I made a big triple batch of cookies with it.  So I'll start another thread to address my questions about it!

Thanks.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Very silly, I'm sure....so please excuse my naivete.  I'm running into some capacity issues with my KA, and am starting to back burn a better, dedicated mixer for bread.  I'm total-body neuropathic and also have a pretty badly arthritic spine, so need all the labor-saving I can get.  So, to the stupid question - the difference(s) between the DLX and the Ankarsrum?  Are they in fact the same machine? (OK, that was the really stupid question).

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

Yes.

Suza's picture
Suza

Same machine, AKA Electrolux Magic Mill and Assistent, now called the Ankarsrum Original.  Not hard to be confused :)  The design has undergone very few changes over the past 75 years.

I will say, there is very little labor.  Mix the ingredients and let it knead.  It takes a while to wrap your brain around a different method of mixing, but I would not let that scare you off; operation is pretty straight forward.  And, the Original weighs nearly 1/2 as much as the KA.  I have both and can honestly say the Ankarsrum beats the KA, many times over, especially for bread.  And, it's very easy to assemble, disassemble and clean. 

My KA is one of the better ones - an older, Hobart built K5SS. But, it will knead only two loaves of white or one loaf of whole grain bread, using the dough hook.  My hook is the older "C" shape and the dough rides up the hook, into the drive shaft.  I understand the newer models have a "spiral" hook that is much better.  The Ankarsrum easily handles multiple loaves of whole wheat.  I routinely make 6 loaves at a time, no problem, using the roller/scraper.  They say it will handle more, but I've not tried.

In my opinon, the Ankarsrum is excellent for mixing bread and other baked goods, especially in large quantities.  It is very well built and well worth the money.  The closest KA on the market today, the 7 qt Proline, is about $150 less, but I'm sure it will not handle the quantity of dough and handle it as well as the Ankarsrum.  One thing I hate about my KA is the motor head being in the way.  You can't see what's going on in the bowl.  You have to stop the machine and lower the bowl to do anything.  The Ankarsrum is open on the top.  The bowl spins and it is easy to add ingredients without any stopping and lowering.  And the motor doesn't get hot like the KA, when put to task. 

I have had my Ankarsrum only a couple of weeks, but the difference is like night and day.  I actually enjoy making bread now.  I'm so glad I decided to purchase it.  I also considered a Bosch, but I'm certain I made the right choice. 

 

 

 

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Great, thank you very much, guys.  Suza, that is a great testimony, much appreciated.  Now, it seems my cheese caves and other assorted paraphernalia will have to make room...!

Theresse's picture
Theresse

Tomorrow mine *should* arrive, according to my tracking #.  :)  Will I be able to sleep tonight?

It's funny how I know I could make all kinds of doughs on my own without a mixer, but now that it's coming (and now that I've used a friends old one from the '80s and liked it a lot), I'm determined to actually make them.  Probably cause I like gadgets, who knows.

Anyway when I get it, here are some of the things I'm going to make hopefully sooner than later:

(I already made heavy whole grain bread and mashed potatoes in it, so I want to try other things for fun)

- cinnamon rolls : - p   (never have!)

- french bread type of bread - artisan

- typical bread dough "donuts" fried in pan of oil then shaken in paper bag of powdered sugar

- kolache (baked spread of cottage cheese, egg, sugar or honey and pinch of nutmeg over pizza-like rectangle)

- xmas cookies (and if I'm feeling especially ambitious, gingerbread for a homemade gingerbread house)

I'd like to one day try out the fettucini accessory (guess I'll have to buy it to try it!) and actually give a go at making homemade pasta.  Spinach fettucini in the summer tossed with a variety of small, different-colored tomatoes from the garden and olive oil, cider vinegar, fresh thyme and some cayenne is a super delicious recipe I have in a Mayo Clinic cookbook I got about 10 years ago.  

Suza - you'll get my email soon!  Sorry it's taking me so long!

Gravity's picture
Gravity

why not just get a 300 kg fork mixer?

sure, it costs a lot more, but wow, what a capacity!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281211037416&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Suza's picture
Suza

Never heard of one!  This thing is huge.  You'd have to build a room for it, but, you could make a year's worth of bread in no time :)

Thanks for sharing.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Yikes!  Perfect. Now, I have a reason to buy that wheat field I've been eyeing....

Suza's picture
Suza

Gary,

Following up on your very much appreciated help regarding the spring not holding the roller against the side of the bowl of the Assistant.

The mixer belonged to my DIL.  I told her what you said about the spring.  Being an engineer, she looked inside and, sure enough, the spring was not positioned correctly.  She said it was installed backwards (so it was pushing the arm away from the side of the bowl).  She removed it and installed in the correct position.  Like magic, the mixer now works properly.  Her dad (who handed the mixer down to her) is here visiting, so she is going to ask him if it ever worked properly or if it came, new, with the spring mounted incorrectly.  I can't imagine Electrolux shipping out a machine with that obvious of a defect, but who knows.  Anyway, my DIL wanted me to extend her gratitude for suggesting what the problem might be.  Thank you!!!!

Susan

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

You have made my day, Susan.

cheers,

gary

Suza's picture
Suza

The search is over.  After much deliberation, I decided on an Ankarsrum, - the orange to match my Le Creuset cookware

Now I'm ready to embark on the annual holiday baking spree.

Thanks everyone, for all your advice, tips and encouragement.

Susan

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

A perfect match. You'd think one was designed for the other and vice versa. ;-P

g

ahuitt's picture
ahuitt

I just got my new Pearl Green Ankarsrum yesterday and have already made 5 loaves of whole wheat bread and 5 loaves of pumpkin bread. I LOVE it. It's so quiet and smooth. I love being able to "interact" with the roller. And being able to access the bowl without the mixer head in the way is wonderful. (Makes getting swipes of the creamed butter and sugar a little too easy!!!!) And cleaning is a breeze!! I can't wait to trade ideas with you other new owners and to gain wisdom from the veteran owners. 

Suza's picture
Suza

Congratulations on your new Ankarsrum.  I am sooooo happy with my decision and can't wait to do more Christmas baking.  I, too, love the easy access to the bowl during mixing.  So much more convenient than my KA. 

Regarding the issue of mixing small batches with the Ankarsrum:  This past weekend, my DIL and I did a blind taste test to compare a loaf of 100% whole wheat bread made with Bob's Red Mill flour and one made with fresh ground hard red wheat.  We each successfully made one loaf in our Ankarsrums.  At first, I thought the flour was not going to mix in, but it did.  And the dough kneaded wonderfully.  I have also made a single cake batter recipe, with the batter bowl, with equal success.

The conclusion to the taste test:  The fresh ground flour loaf had a better, more distinct flavor.  We tried to make each loaf identical, but had to add more flour to the BRM dough to get the same consistency as the fresh ground flour loaf; BRM flour must have had a higher moisture content.  The FGF loaf also had a more consistent and chewy texture.  Definitely worth milling your own, not to mention the other benefits such as nutrition, longer shelf life (berries vs flour) and ease of storing large quantities.  I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of hard white wheat berries today so I can give them a try.

Since receiving my new mixer, I have made fruitcake, fresh apple cake, cinnamon rolls, and several loaves of bread.  I love it!

 

 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Suza,  when you get a chance, you might want to sprout some of the berries, then dry them, and then grind them.  It is a lot more time and effort, but the taste is out of this world.  So far I have only ground the white wheat berries, but will try the red shortly.   And yes,  I have not had a problem with single loaves with the DLX, and have even mixed a 100G flour  preferment just to see how it would do.  

Suza's picture
Suza

Might try this winter.  Tips appreciated.

FreshGoose's picture
FreshGoose

How many grams of flour would you say each loaf had?

ahuitt's picture
ahuitt

I made some dinner rolls with the dough hook today. It was a 578 g flour recipe. It kneaded beautifully, and it was SO easy to clean up. No dough stuck in tiny crevices of dough hooks - just a quick swipe of the curves, and it was clean.  And the bowl wiped right out as well. Aahhhh. I'm blissful with this new machine. I'm so glad I took the plunge on it. I love the way it sounds, too!! :) 

Suza's picture
Suza

Used around 675-700 g fresh ground flour for a 9x5 loaf (a little bit over 2# of dough).  The Bob's Red Mill loaf used more flour, but didn't get the weight on that one.

Note:  during the initial stage of mixing, made a sponge with about half the flour, water, yeast, and 1/2 the sweetener (honey).  Mixed well and let stand for 30 minutes.  This gives the WW time to absorb the liquid before kneading.  Seems to work well.

Theresse's picture
Theresse

I'm still loving my Ankarsrum as well.  Still haven't done anything beyond whole wheat bread, dinner rolls, kolache, pizza dough, cinnamon rolls and mashed potatoes (might be forgetting something) but am hoping to try my first sourdough bread soon which I have no doubt will be a breeze with this machine!