The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Tartine Country, and 80% rye with soaker

  • Pin It
Mebake's picture
Mebake

Tartine Country, and 80% rye with soaker

So, Tartine Country bread it is. I chose to try the much revered country recipe before venturing into more complex breads in Tartine book. Generally, I followed Chad’s instructions to the letter, including the shaping method depicted in his book.  The recipe yielded good sourdough bread, with moist interior, crackled crust, and smooth eating qualities with no acidic notes whatsoever. It is a really good bread, especially for those who have just ventured into making their own sourdough breads at home. I loved it, and loved the subtle creaminess of its crumb, and the lovely carmalized tones of the crust.

  

To balance things out, and to further try the performance of my newly sourced French whole non organic Rye flour, I baked a recipe from Hamelman’s book Bread: 80% Rye sourdough with a rye flour soaker. This time, I skipped the yeast altogether and added 1 hour to the bulk ferment which added up to 2 hour total bulk fermentation.  This was the first time I used a recipe that calls for a scald, I was surprised by the moistness it lends to the crumb even after 48 hours of cooling. The flavor after 36 hours was mildly acidic, and the crumb was still moist. The bread was good, period. I’ll wait for a total of 72 hours to judge the bread flavor as it evolves, but I’m not anticipating a surprise.

What I’ll be doing from now on, I think, is to mill my organic rye flour or purchase dove farm’s whole rye flour and use it in the sour. The rest of the dough’s rye would be from the non-organic rye flour.

  

-Khalid

 

Comments

PiPs's picture
PiPs

Nice baking Khalid,

I take a guess that you didn't retard the Tartine loaf? I prefer it retarded myself ... both from a schedule point of view and also in eating quality. What size loaf is that ... it looks huge :)

How long did you bulk ferment the Tartine loaf and what temperatures. I am always curious about this as I find Chad's instructions on this a bit vague ... and a lot of people come to grief bulk fermenting too long at too high a temperature.

... but if I had to choose I would take the rye loaf. I love the dark crust on top ... What wonderful flavours would be residing there.

Cheers,
Phil

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Phil!

No, i didn't retard the dough. I wanted to sample the subtle flavors that Chad mentions in his book, but i now i would retard it for more flavor. The loaf shown above is less than half the total dough's yield, around 950 grams.

I bulk fermented the Tartine dough for 4 hours at 26c. The dough was very active and airy by the end of the bulk fermentation. I also stretched and folded in the bowl every 30 minutes.

I would, hands down pick the rye bread, if not for the shortcomings of the french rye flour i bought in bulk. I guess we, home millers, are spoilt when it comes to freshly milled flours.

All the best,

-Khalid

holds99's picture
holds99

Khalid,

Both breads are beautiful: the Tartine loaf has beautiful crust, crumb and interesting scoring and the Hamelman rye has an amazingly open crumb for an 80% rye.  I would appreciate knowing what instrument/tool you used to dock the rye, and the type pan you used to bake the rye?  It has a shape similar to a pain de mie. 

Great baking, Khalid!

Howard

 

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Howard!

I wet the tip of a wooden barbecue skewer and dock the top of my proofed rye with it. I dip it repeatedly to keep moist. The pan used is a Terrine pan that has a capacity 30% less to that of a Pullman.

here is a link to the pan's picture: http://lakelandcamel.scene7.com/is/image/LakelandCamel/16035_2?$380$ 

I bought it for $ 20 us. sides can be taken apart to allow the frozen contents to release.

-Khalid

holds99's picture
holds99

Thanks for the tip about using a barbecue skewer to dock and for the link to the pan.

Howard

annie the chef's picture
annie the chef

I had just baked a quantity of Gerald Rebaud's bread from Shiao Ping's recipe two days ago.  The crumb turned out exactly like your Tartine loaf, except my crumb colour is a bit blonde compare to yours (due to a blend of rye, spelt, w/w and white flour). I mixed and left the dough autolyse for 12 hours at 15 degree C and started my third build of stiff levain (65%) at the same time. BF for 6 hours at 18 degree C and the shaped loaves retarded in the fridge for another 12 hours. The dough before baked was very aromatic (the levain took 30 hours at very mild room temperature for 3 builds) and the flavour of the crust and crumb is the best of all the loaves I've ever baked so far.  I wish I had it pictured but with young kids... it's bit hard.  I'm lucky to have time to bake and reading books and blogs.

I got the Tartine book but haven't yet tried any recipes. Your loaves look wonderful.

Annie

 

 

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Sounds really interesting schedule, Annie, quite suitable for a mother with children. You've crafted a bread full of flavor no doubt, i may have to consider such a long schedule myself. 

Tartine country bread is milder than Raubaud's, but both are good in their own ways. 

Thanks for the compliment, Annie!

-Khalid

annie the chef's picture
annie the chef

so the temperature overnight in my house is quite cold.  This schedule suits me very well as S&Fs were done between tasks and attention to the children. I also have some left-over breads in the freezer while we are waiting for the bake.  One loaf was given away as a gift so I just have to make sure it is a good and tasty loaf.

Happy baking, Khalid!

Annie

annie the chef's picture
annie the chef

It is Gerard Rubaud's bread.

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Khalid,

Perhaps not surprisingly, I'd be with Phil, in the queue for the Rye Bread!   Are you still using the T170 rye flour which you blogged about a few months ago?

But the crumb of the Tartine loaf is fabulous; perfect fermentation in what really looks like a white loaf; highly unusual from you, of course, but it looks great.

All good wishes

Andy

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Andy!

Yes, the rye flour i'm using is the T-170 (sounds like a code name for a nuclear submarine :) )

Tartine country has 10% wholewheat which makes it ok for occasional sandwhiches. My wife and children, though, are addicted to such crusty white breads which explains why i'm baking them more often.

Thanks for your encouraging words.

-Khalid

 

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Tartine must contrast well with the rye sour.  I prefer the more tangy, retarded SFSD tyoe breads that David Snyder foirmulated.  Like Phil they fit mny schedule better too.  The kids will like the mild tang of the white bread leave that rye for you savor.    Both breads are top notch inside and out,

Happy baking Khalid 

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, DA!

I can't bring myself to retarding loaves yet, I'm too impatient. Moreover, my breads are often ready for baking in the afternoons, which leaves little time for any retardation. I bake exclusively on my weekend day (saturday); on sunday morning i head for work.

-Khalid

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Both breads look wonderful, Khalid.

The Tartine Basic Country Bread, like Hamelman's Pain au Levain, is a good bread with which to experiment with time and temperature. I don't believe I've ever baked the Tartine BCB without retarding the formed loaves, but I can imagine it being much like Hamelman's Pain au Levain, which I never retard. Little sour. Just great, complex but subtle wheaty flavors.

I have made that rye, and it is delicious with terrific keeping quality.

Good stuff!

David

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, David!

My children and wife loved the Tartine bread, they even tore a piece of the ear away while loaf was cooling. Retarded or not, those white SDs are good sandwhich vessels, especially when grilled.

I remember your version, and i can now really appreciate what you meant by " moist" crumb.

-Khalid

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Hi Khalid,

Great breads!  I am especially impressed with the rye loaf since I just finished baking Andy's Moscow Rye which is similar in that it is high rye −100% - and it has a scald.  

Your comments on what the scald added to this loaf confirms what Andy told me about scalds and why one is used in the Borodinsky too.  All stuff I have read about here in the past but I think it has taken me this long to begin to really comprehend what it all means in the final dough.  I like using them because they are easier to make than a mash which takes more watching over with temps. and times.

When I make rye loaves with scalds people really, really like them which surprised me in the beginning because so many people where I live are used to soft white sandwich breads and rye is an unfamiliar grain to them.  I even had one person ask me what rye was….I should add that the person was a 16 year old friend of my son's who lives on candy bars and soda pop…….    =: O  I should also add that he later told me that the loaf was eaten as quickly as it was taken into his house :- ).  I so love it when that happens :)

Anyway - thanks for the post and your new photo of yourself.

Take Care,

Janet

Mebake's picture
Mebake

I have yet to bake Andy's moscow rye or Borodinsky, mostly for the lack of red rye malt,  Do you have the malt? 

what a pleasure it must have been to learn that your bread has been consumed instantly, very rewarding. My eldest son (6 yr old) has asked me to slice rye for him, during my photo taking above. He has started to appreciate rye breads, and crusty white SDs, What a joy!

Many thanks, Janet!

-Khalid

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Sounds like your 6 year old is hooked and on his way.  Have you ever toasted a piece for him? I remember loving rye breads toasted as a child…loved the crunch more than a soft piece of rye bread for some reason.  I still like crunchy textures.  One of my fondest memories is that of eating fresh 'authentic' San Francisco sourdough bread as a child - the crust being my favorite part.  (I grew up in SanFrancisco so it really 'real' - large baguettes sold in paper bags….They didn't last long around our house - 5 kids….)

If you have rye berries you can make  you own malt easily by sprouting then drying them in the oven and then grinding them into a powder.  I have made my own as well as purchased some at a local brew shop but the malted grains they had are called crystal rye malt.  Very dark - think they are similar to ones Varda purchased when making the Borodinsky.  I have a small coffee grinder so I simply grind them into powder when I need some.

I would encourage you to try these breads despite no 'red' malt if you can make your own. ( I seem to recall you can buy rye berries locally but I am not sure….)  Andy would be the one to ask about this and I think there was a discussion about it on one of his posts for this loaf.  

Take Care,

Janet

Mebake's picture
Mebake

He likes the softer crumb!

As to the berries, i've tried sprouting them with no success thus far. DA told me that the berries might have been tampered with to prevent sprouting in storage.

-Khalid

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

How frustrating….IF you lived closer, I'd send you some :)

Janet

wassisname's picture
wassisname

Beautiful baking from both ends of the bread spectrum, Khalid!  I haven't baked anything from Bread in a long while but now I'm thinking it is time to go back.  Your rye loaf just looks irresistible!  Was the pan covered at all during baking?

Marcus

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, the pan has no cover.

all the best,

-Khalid

varda's picture
varda

Hi Khalid,   Love your bread.   We made the 80% rye in sandwich bread format in the Rye class I took last spring.   Since then I have baked it many time but in the upside down hearth loaf format.   It looks like you got such a great result with a lot of lift, and very little compacting at the bottom.   Yum!  -Varda

Mebake's picture
Mebake

I prefer to bake 70% and above ryes in pans for better crumb texture and versatility. 

Thanks alot Varda!

-Khalid

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

especially by the openness of the crumb for the rye!  Excellent work all around.

Paul

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks for your words of encouragement, Paul!

-Khalid

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hi Khalid,
Two of my favorite formulas in one post!
You've baked exceptional examples of both and your descriptions of the flavor are bringing back really good memories of these breads.
:^) breadsong

Mebake's picture
Mebake

I'm glad you liked them, Breadsong! Thank you so much.

-Khalid

isand66's picture
isand66

Just beautiful boldly baked breads Khalid.  You have one lucky family that's for sure.  Lovely crumb and perfect crust on both.

Regards,

Ian

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Many thanks, Ian!

-Khalid

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Khalid,

I've been looking forward to your first bake from Tartine, and as expected you've done a wonderful bake of Robertson's signature bread! Can't wait to see what you'll bake next from his book, but (hint,hint) his Country Rye-pg 118 is superb, really one of the nicest light rye breads I've ever tasted.

The results in texture you experienced using a scald  for your 80% Rye mirror my own recent experience using one as well. The significant improvement in texture from a mix not employing a scald is enough to make me consider the step as S.O.P. for rye breads over 50%. Not a traditional method for all high ratio rye breads I know, but the eating quality is so much better it's a factor that's hard to ignore. Something tells me that large, boldly baked, and beautiful rye of yours will disappear in no time. Top stuff Khalid!

Best wishes,

Franko

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thank you , Franko!

I'm eyeing the Rye bread; though first it has to make way for the Whole wheat version.

I suppose bakers won't consider scald in ryes are standard  due to the high moisture content it lends to the rye bread, so much so that the bread can be mistaken by the buyer as being gummy and underdone.

Half the rye is residing in the freezer now. You can only have so much Rye in a  day or two :)

-Khalid

bakingbadly's picture
bakingbadly

Lovely loaves, Khalid! Your photos and description of the Tartine Country bread are enticing, as well as the 80% rye.

Happy baking,

Zita

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Zita!

I'd love to see more of your lovely posts as well.

-Khalid

FlourChild's picture
FlourChild

What a gorgeous pair of breads!  Love how different they are in character, eating one must leave you perfectly positioned to enjoy the other :)

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Many Thanks, Flourchild!

-Khalid

breadforfun's picture
breadforfun

Hi Khalid,

Thanks for posting these beautiful loaves.  You inspired me to make the 80% rye, and it turned out pretty good, though not as nice as yours.  I didn't have the confidence to omit the yeast as you did (given my frequent failures with rye loaves), but this gave me a clue what a proper rye dough should feel like.  Nice baking.

-Brad

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Brad

I've had my fair share of Rye failures. However, with time i learnt that i should accept the fact that rye dough is wet clay and handle it as such, which helped tremendously.

Keep at it, and i'll keep at it too. There is much more room for improvement, as my ryes aren't as good as they can be.

-Khalid