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Modifying Peter Reinhart's Recipes for Sour Dough Starter

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ernieS's picture
ernieS

Modifying Peter Reinhart's Recipes for Sour Dough Starter

I have read a couple of Reinhart's books in addition to another book on sour dough bread baking. Here is my issue. I am wedded to the idea of the slow rise using a wild yeast starter. I have a healthy starter and have made several semi-successful hearth loaves that are multigrain (some issues with hydration posted elsewhere on this forum). I just tried to follow Reinhart's recipe for transition whole grain hearth bread. He says earlier in his Whole Grain Breads book that one can substitute a wild yeast starter for his biga recipes. Problem is, he doesn't include the slow rise process, and he uses a little baker's yeast to (I assume) give the last rise in the oven.

I guess my question is, where can I find a reliable recipe for hearth bread, multigrain, that includes the slow rise wild yeast starter approach? Or, can someone tell me how to modify Reinhart's recipes so that I can insert the slow rise process? (BTW, following his recipe for the soaker gave me a cake-like consistency rather than a slurry that he describes; however, the final dough turned out about right).

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

converted to SD with or without retarding the dough in the fridge if you follow a few simple rules.  No need for any commercial yeast.

The levain should be between 10%-20% of the total flour and water weight.  The lower the amount the more sour the bread will be and the longer it will take.  Just remember to deduct the flour and water you use to make the levain from the total amount in the recipe,  I use a 3 stage build of 4 hours each in the winter, 3 hours in the summer, to make the exact levain amount where each stage doubles the amount of flour and water of the previous one. I keep starter in the fridge at 66% hydration  In 12 hours I have150 g of levain at its peek ready to go to raise a 1,000 g loaf of bread,

Autolyse the flours - 1 hour for white flour and up to 8 hours in the fridge for whole grains.

Mix the autolyse with the levain without the salt using what ever method you like I use a minute of slap and folds.   Make a ball and sprinkle the salt on top and let rest 20 minutes covered with plactic wrap in a bowl I always oil my bowl so the dough doesn't stick.

Do 10 minutes slap and folds to develop the gluten and let rest 20 minutes covered in a bowl.

Do 3 sets of stretch and folds, each set is 4 stretches and folds from the cardinal compass points with  20 minutes rest in between in a covered bowl.

Now is when things can vary.  In the Summer  Ilet the dough bulk ferment in the bowl on the counter for 30 minutes.,  in the winter this can be 90 minutes due to the cold,

Now you can either pe-shape and then 10 minutes later, shape into what ever and put it in a basket or tin or do a free form loaf.  Then bag it in a trash can liner and refrigerate for 8 to 24 hours.  You can then bake it right out of the fridge with steam or let it warm up first your choice depending on how much it proofed in the fridge,  Or you can bulk retard in the bowl and then take it out of the fridge let it warm up for 30 - 45 minutes pre-shape and shape for tins, baskets or free form and let the dough final proof for 1-2 hours maybe more in the winter before baking,

Bake on a stone with mega steam at 450 F for 12 minutes and then bake at 425 F convection till 205F on the inside or use a DO and bake covered for 25 minutes and then uncover and finish baking.  You can remove from the DO entirely at eh 30 minute mark if you want and finsh on the stone or oven rack

That is all you need to know about SD baking.  If you have add ins like scalds, seeds, dried fruit or nits just fold them in during the first stretch and fold or split them for teh 1st and 2nd set if you have a lot like I do,

If you don't want to retard than just let the dough final proof in a bag on the counter after being shaped, tinned, basketed or fre formed .  You save yourself 8-24 hours but the bread won'tbe as tasty or as sour.

Happy baking

 

 

Skibum's picture
Skibum

I discovered that you actually can kill a starter.  Somehow ignoring it totally from end November until last week did it in. But I have raised a new starter and am on a sourdough project and I will be using the exact method you have described.  Thanks for sharing dabrownman!

Happy baking, Brian

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

and grammer errors..

You should have taken some fo the old starter while it was dry, pulverize a small portion of it and put it in the new one when you started it.  That way you could say what a great SD starter  save you made :-)

I'm pretty sure this is a universal SD method for with and without retard and bulk or shaped retard if you do.  Which ever method you choose Ski, it would have turned out just fine with that old starter you could have saved.... but I don't know what will happen with the new one! 

Happy baking

 

Skibum's picture
Skibum

 . . . used in a lean hearth loaf and despite my poor shaping and scoring produced the best tasting 'French' style loaf I have ever baked, so a good start to the new starter.  I used your method of work entirely an am LIKING the results.  Frankly dman, your post in THIS thread is the most easy to understand and follow formula for producing 'sourdough' breads.  I am sorry Mr. Reinhart, the dman's instruction and method of work is, WAY easier to follow for me.

Dman, please take a bow!

Happy baking, Brian

hanseata's picture
hanseata

I bake these breads all the time, and use a wild yeast starter instead of the biga in many of them. But, since I sell my breads, I want to have a reliable rising time, so I include some instant yeast. But I bulk retard the doughs in the fridge overnight, and need only 3-4 g of instant yeast instead of the 7 g the recipes require.

I prepare soaker and starter in the morning, mix the final dough in the evening, let it rise in the fridge overnight, remove it 2 hours before shaping, to de-chill. Works great, every time.

Happy baking,

Karin

ernieS's picture
ernieS

Karin, when preparing the starter (feeding it) in the morning, do you put it in the fridge the remainder of the day or do you leave it out? I would think leaving it out at room temperature runs the risk of over-rising. ???

 

Ernie

hanseata's picture
hanseata

When I feed the starter in the morning, I refrigerate it, when it is active, after 4- 8 hours, depending on the temperatures, unless I use it right away. Or you make it in the evening and let it rise overnight.

A few hour more make no big difference, unless you bake a specialty bread like Tartine's, with several feedings to get a starter at the height of its activity in order to achieve a special taste and structure. For Peter Reinhart's whole grain breads, and many others, that isn't really an issue.

Karin

ernieS's picture
ernieS

Karin, I assume you work the dough night before, put it in bannetons or whatever in the fridge overnight, and then let it warm and rise the next morning before baking, right?

I have another question regarding weight. I like to use rye berries in my bread (soaker), but I cook them to soften them. I weigh everything in my recipes using a digital scale. Do I use the weight of the cooked berries or the uncooked berries in my bread???

Thanks again for the sequencing. That really helpful.

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Ernie, I usually make pre-doughs in the morning (if using), mix the final dough in the evening, using either the "Whole Grain Breads" method or S&F à la "Artisan Breads Every Day" (as you see, I am a Reinhart fan).

I bulk retard the dough overnight in the fridge, remove it the next day 2 hours before using (unless it's for small breads like pitas or rolls, that warm up fast), or doughs that need some more rising like Pain à l'Ancienne. Larger breads I prefer shaping at room temperature, not cold.

Only some breads, like Pane Siciliano, bagels, or some breads that are supposed to have larger holes I shape and then retard in the refrigerator.

Right now I'm baking my way through Ken Forkish's: "Flour, Yeast, Water, Salt", and he has some breads that are refrigerated overnight after shaping. But those (really wonderful) breads I wouldn't bake for sale, unless I figure out how to make them in larger batches without using a Dutch oven - and have a larger refrigerator to accommodate several rising baskets.

To your berry question: I would use the weight of the cooked berries. Or you have to add the water they absorbed to your formula. What do you think, Dabrownman?

Karin

 

 

ernieS's picture
ernieS

Karin, thanks a bunch. I am working on a couple of loaves right now, made the soaker this morning and refreshed the starter to the needed amount. I put the starter back in the fridge for the day, but will take it out and let it warm a bit this evening before preparing the final dough. After kneading I plan to split the dough into two loaves in two bowls (don't have bannetons) and let them retard-rise overnight in the fridge. Then, tomorrow I'll follow your two hour rule while I heat up the baking stone in the steam oven. I plan to test the dough for a good rise before baking (but not over-proof). We shall see! Thanks for the post and reply.