The Fresh Loaf

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My Daily Bread

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My Daily Bread

my daily bread

If you ever read my baker blog, you'll know that almost every week, regardless of what else I am baking, I bake a batch of pain sur poolish. I began baking a bread like this while reading The Village Baker. I've since adapted it to be even simpler.

This recipe really has become my control, my baseline for experimentation. Whether it be a new mixing technique, a new brand of flour, or a new baking schedule, when I apply a change to this recipe I have the easiest time perceiving how that change modified the outcome of my bread.

I'm offering up this recipe here because a few people have asked for it. But more than advocating this recipe in particular I'm advocating the method of finding something you like and using it as your baseline for experimentation.

My Pain Sur Poolish (Daily Bread)
Makes 2 loaves

Poolish
1 cup flour
1 cup water
1/4 teaspoon instant yeast

Final Dough
1 pound flour
10-12 ounces water
1 teaspoon instant yeast
2 teaspoons salt
all of the poolish

Combine the ingredients for the poolish in a small bowl the night before baking. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap and leave the poolish out at room temperature overnight.

The next day, prepare the final dough, either by using the autolyse method of flour and water first then the rest of the ingredients with minimal mixing or by combining them all and mixing until you have decent gluten development (8 to 10 minutes).

I typically fold the dough once an hour twice during primary fermentation, then shape the loaves and give them a longer final rise, typically around 90 minutes. Meanwhile, my oven and baking stone are preheating as hot as they can safely go.

Baking, with steam, takes me 20 minutes, 5 minutes or so at maximum oven temperature, the remainder at 450-475. I rotate the loaves once half way through the baking.

my daily bread

That is it. Simple, tasty, and a great recipe to practice with.

Relate Recipes: Italian Bread, Rustic Bread.

Do you have a bread recipe that is your standard? Please, share it!

Comments

whitedaisy's picture
whitedaisy

The bread I bake most often is what I call my "Lazy Loaf." It is a variation of the recipe in lesson #1. I make a sponge with 1 c wheat flour, 1 c water and 1 tsp yeast. If I'm on the ball, I leave the sponge over night. But more often than not, I make a sponge while I make breakfast and let it hang out on my counter while I get the kids to school and do all the "Mom stuff" I've got to do for the day.

Then I add about 1 T butter, 1 tsp salt and the rest of my flour. Some times I add honey and sometimes I add cracked wheat, depending on my mood.

Keep in mind, I rarely measure for this loaf, (hence the name Lazy Loaf) so all measurements are approximate.

Galebug2010's picture
Galebug2010

Ok my dough was really wet when I put it in the oven now even though I have cooked it for 45 min the loaf is not done in the middle it is still doughy.  I didn't even get anything edible out of this deal, and my house is all smoky...I do how ever have my poolish getting ready for tomorrow....do you have pics for each stage of this?  I think I did many things wrong...wrong proofing pan, wrong oven temp ( I know the temp I'm setting the oven for is not the temp that is in it) and on and on!

midwest bread's picture
midwest bread

Since trying this recipe out a couple of weeks ago I have fell in love with it. The 1st version was a bit wet so I added a touch more flour the subsequent times, starting with 1lb and then addidng till it felt just right (still keeping it pretty moist though). It is now one of the base recipes I use, making it every few days and adding other things to it, such as a small head of finely chopped roasted garlic or some asiago cheese. Just wanted to say thanks!

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

Floyd,

I was looking at your recipe, thinking of making baguettes this weekend with it, but when I calculated the hydration, I came up with 90-100% depending on whether one uses 10 or 12 oz of water in the dough.

Is the poolish right? I've always used a poolish with roughly even weights of water and flour, and if you use a cup of both, I think that comes out to 4.25 to 4.5 ounces flour and 8 ounces water. Did you mean to say 1 cup flour and 1/2 cup water?

If you're wrangling with bread at nearly 100% hydration and getting the beautiful loaves I see, you are truly ... The Man. :-)

sphealey's picture
sphealey

Agreed. I am trying this today. I used 12 oz water in the autolyze, which created a nice dough. But when I added the poolish it turned to soup. I added at least 1/2 cup more flour as I mixed, but I still have a dough that is more like that for an Italian flatbread. We shall see how it goes, but I don't think it is going to shape very well ;-(

Next time I think I will start with 10 oz water in the main dough.

sPh

rmk129's picture
rmk129

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found this dough extremely wet...I used only 8 oz water in the autolyze and still ended up with a soup-like consistency once I added the poolish! I have only been making bread for a few months, so I thought maybe I just didn't know how to properly deal with such a wet dough. I ended up adding 1 1/2 cups of extra flour and it was still very wet (I used a mixmaster to knead and it barely started to pull away from the edges of the bowl), but it was more manageable and more what I pictured the "correct" result to be like. I am in the final stages of the last rise right now, so we will see how it turns out... I think next time I will try only 4 oz of water in the dough????

Floydm's picture
Floydm

There is no question this is a super wet dough. It is not hand-kneadable, and only after folding a couple of times on a highly floured surface is it even shapeable (and even then, with difficulty). I've found I'm happiest with the results when I leave it that wet, but it'll still make a nice bread at a lower hydration.

kimn's picture
kimn

Terrific recipe. My dough was also quite wet. Took at least another half a cup of flour and the dough was still a little wet. Regardless, the bread has a great flavor. I made two baguettes, one plain and added some olives to the second one.

P.S. Compliments on the great website (I am new here).

Cooky's picture
Cooky

Aha! Why didn't I read this whole thread before I tried this recipe? I thought I had screwed something up royally because I couldn't knead it in the smooth, masterful way I remember my grandmother did back when she made bread every day. Did I stop to think she was NOT making artisanal French bread? Nope. And so we learn from our mistakes.

Floyd, your tips, tricks, recipes and instructions are terrific. Thanks for all your hard work!

 

"I am not a cook. But I am sorta cooky."

Ralmaroad's picture
Ralmaroad

Floyd:

   I tried the Daily Bread as well as I could since I'm not a baker and trusting the receipe.

After mixing the poolish with the autolyzed flower dry yeast and salt.  Do I disolve the yeast in extra water--I just added it in and stirred it with my hand and put it into a bowl that I sprayed with oil...Right or Wrong?  After 1 hour, I dumped it out on the heavily flowered counter top and just folded the back 1/3 to the middle and the front 1/3 to the middle and put it back into the washed and reoiled bowl.  Right or Wrong?  After letting it rise for another hour I formed it into three small round balls and let them rise for 3 hours but they were really flat and low.  How do you get them to be taller.  I did the baking thing of pre-heating the over to 500+ degrees without any stones but with the iron skillet in the bottom that I filled with water to create the steam.  I shut the door and watched them for about 5 minutes and resteamed them.  Let them bake for about another 15 minutes towhich they burned some.  Since I'm not any type of baker what am I doing wrong.  Harsh comments will not hurt my feeling at all.  If I stupid for doing things--Hey I'm retired and just learning.  Thanks as I'm going to try again Monday.  Anyone else who can tell me anything--please do.  Again Thanks

soprano.caeli's picture
soprano.caeli

how long can you leave a poolish sitting out before you use it an how long will it work?

xrelaht's picture
xrelaht

Can you add a note to that effect to the recipe?  Like all these other people else, I thought I'd done something wrong.  I figured my flour must just be so different from yours that it wasn't taking enough water up and added more until it seemed right.  Next time, I'll know better!


I've also propagated the poolish to see what would happen.  I don't have a sourdough starter, and I thought this might be a good way to start some facimile of one.  I doubled it a couple of times, then split it in two and added yogurt (my girlfriend's home-made!) to one and wheat berries to both.  Didn't have a big enough container for the yogurt one, so I split it again after it doubled.  After making bagels from one of the yogurt starters, I put a piece of the dough back in.  Been feeding each one 1c flour and 1c water every day (had to cycle through three different flours and three different town's tap waters!) It's almost 2 weeks old now and it's starting to develop a pretty cool character of its own.

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I meant 1 cup to 1 cup on the poolish. I like the flavor I get out of a wet poolish better.

I'm guessing end up closer to 65 or 70% hydration by the time I bake it. The combination of a bit of extra flour I throw in when mixing plus the flour it picks up when I am folding it on a *highly* floured surface narrow the difference.

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

Got it. If I can find time to make a loaf of this, I'll let you know how it goes.

sphealey's picture
sphealey

The crust on the loaf in your picture looks like a Panera sourdough crust, but of course this is not a sourdough. Is the crust as good as it looks? Is it chewy or flaky? What do you think creates the good crust - the very high baking temperature?

sPh

Gedunkleberg's picture
Gedunkleberg

Two questions: Do you usually use AP or bread flour? Does this recipe make 2 loaves?

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I usually use AP in the poolish and bread flour in the final dough. I don't have a good reason for doing it that way, that is just the habit I've gotten into.

Yes, typically I make it into two loaves.

RichC's picture
RichC

Does this crust come out softer? I made this today and it came out crisp but thin. I'm trying to figure out if it just comes out that way or if something else caused it.

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Um... It typically doesn't come as crispy as a straight up French Bread, but it is still rather crusty.

Dreaded Platypus's picture
Dreaded Platypus

Hello All..

I'm new here and somewhat new to bread making, (I've been very fortunate to have always gotten at least edible results though !).

I tried the recipe tonight using 10oz water.

I used "bulk" dry active yeast in both the poolish and the bread.

I mixed the flour with the salt, added the poolish, stirred a bit, and added the warm water with disolved yeast.
While kneading I added flour - likely 1c or so - until the dough just started to stick together - it was still plenty wet.
Working with really wet dough is just a bit over my head at this stage.

I let it rise in the oven with the light on, sealed in a plastic bag.

I only did two rises because I was pressed for time.
Each time the dough easily doubled within the 1 hour time period.
The second rise seemed to be bigger than the first !

After I formed to loaves I put them on the table, also covered in plastic, and they doubled within 40 min.

Question...Are my rises too fast ?

PS....My biggest problem at this stage seems to be shaping uniform and pretty loaves but I guess that will come with (lots of) practice.

I found this link with some photos;

http://jansdough.janktheproofer.com/shapebread.htm

Has anyone got another one ??

Floyd - how did you get the pattern on the top of the loaf pictured ?
I just slice with a razor but I like your effect better !

Thanks in advance for any advice....

John,
Ottawa, Canada

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Those are pretty fast rises. For getting really good, nutty flavor out of your flour and super cool, uneven crumb you need to slow things down more than that. But, hey: sometimes you are in a hurry, and if you end up with results you still enjoy, who is to quibble?

Shaping and scoring just take practice, so don't worry if they aren't coming out perfect. Jeffrey Hammelman's book has the best descriptions and pictures of shaping that I've seen (I've yet to do an article on it because I stink at it). Generally you want to get tight surface tension and degas the dough a bit while shaping, but you don't want to totally deflate the dough (though your loaf sounds like it had enough yeast that it could use some serious degassing).

My best info on scoring I've written over here. Generally speaking, cut almost straight up and down the loaf with your hand at about a 45 degree angle, perhaps even lower. Cut around a half an inch to as much as an inch deep. And just bake often and practice: you'll start to get the hang of it.

Good luck!

sphealey's picture
sphealey

You can also use cooler temperatures. For this recipe I did one rise in the refrigerator, which seems to help both with controlling the amount of rise and the final flavour.

sPh

shi's picture
shi

Ever since I started baking bread(thanks to this faboulous cite) my husband wanted me to bake bread in the loaf style, but i did not have a loaf pan. So last night when he returned from his tour he brought a loaf pan. AND so I had to bake a bread immediately. Well not exactly so. I used all purpose flour n made a poolish n also added some of the dough that I has saved from previous baking. It was bubbly within an hour n smelled yeasty. I did not knead it too much and using a little oil made a ball n placed it in a greased bowl.As soon as the dough was near double I used the folding technique and repeated this once again n then placed the dough in the Refrigerator for a slow rising. In the morning the dough had more than doubled. Then I degrassed the dough and again using the folding method shaped the dough n placed it in the pan. After slashing n glazing I poped the loaf in the ovan with the fan on. I like my crust to be little soft so I sprayed water in the ovan once immediately before placing the pan inside n once after five minutes.
The smell of bread was so good. It was baked in 25 minutes.The crumbs was even n the bread was oh so soft inside. The coulor of the bread was not white but slightly pale can some one tell me why was it so. I think the all purpose flour I used was unbleached so the pale(cream) colour but could there be any other reason too.
n hubby was so happy to have his loaf. out came the butter n knife Couldn't wait for even five minutes n slathered it with butter n half the bread was gone. I took some to office for my friends n they too loved it.
Thanks a ton for this site n for sharing experiences. I have learned so much fom all.
shi

andrew_l's picture
andrew_l

Shi - I've always sprayed water in to the oven to obtain a HARDER crust! And a spray five minutes into baking makes it even more so!
For a soft crust, I lightly flour the surface of the loaf and don't spary .. it seems to work! So if you find spraying makes a soft crust - it implies we are all being hoodwinked and there's no difference whatever you do!!!

Andrew

PS did you allow the loaf to rise again after knocking back and folding and placing i the tin~?

spahkee's picture
spahkee

I just tried something this week to work with the crust as it was coming out hard and thick for my boules - I saw a poster suggest spraying the loaves with waater and thn covering the bread for about 1/2 of the baking time with a work cover - I had to improvise and used a metal mixing bowl.


I've now tried this technique twice and I think I'm sold in terms of getting that thinner crunchy crust that I associate wiith bread.....  Open to others jumpin in if any other ideas...

shi's picture
shi

andrew actually I did not spray much water just a few squirts on the walls of the ovan for ovan spring.i think for a real hard crust a lot of steam has to be created like by placing a pan of boiling water in the bottom or ice cubes etc. The crust was crunchy n thin not hard. I am really very very new to bread baking but this is how my bread came out.
I can say that the kneading i did was only for say 1 minutes(well the dough was quite wet)and then the twice folding, shaping and yes last rising in the pan. The Top was not perfect but after the slashing n ovan spring u couldnt see that. :))
Do u have any suggestion regarding the pale(cream colour) of my loaf(inside)could it be that the all purpose flour was unbleached(is that good). (sigh) in india we get only all purpose flour(we call it maida) no classification whether it is bleached or un bleached.
shi

CohoSalmon's picture
CohoSalmon

One reason typically suggested for a creamy color has to do with oxidation of the carotene while mixing or kneading the bread. Since there is much less kneading with this recipe, air is mixed less with the flour and the original carotene yellow color is preserved. This also means that there is more flavor!. So it sounds like you are doing very well, Shi. Keep up the good work.

smiddlet's picture
smiddlet

There are convincing arguments that ice cubes are not the best for producing steam as they tend to cool the oven. I find a cup of boiling water does the trick with some regular oven-spraying for the first five minutes, then that's it. But perhaps ice cubes give a different character to the crust that might be attractive in another way? Any ideas? I haven't experimented with this yet....

KazaKhan's picture
KazaKhan

Opening the oven door multiple times to spray water will cool the oven down just as much as using ice once, in my opinion. I use ice as there is less splatter hence less chance of recieving a steam burn (very painful) also it reduces the risk of water damaging the electrical system. I'm going to buy an oven thermometer and test out the differences today.

KazaKhan's picture
KazaKhan

I baked bread rolls today, one batch I used ice for steam another I used water. Equal weight of water and ice was used. One minute after adding ice the temperature of the oven had dropped by 20°C, one minute after adding water the temperature dropped 15°C. Water resulted in a far better bloom. The problem with ice cubes was the initial burst of steam was insufficient compared to an equal weight of water...
Poppy seeds = water, Sesame seeds = ice.

smiddlet's picture
smiddlet

Wow -- thanks for doing the research. I can see ice cubes as a better way to steam if you had an oven that can get to a really high temperature but vented at a high rate.

But, in the end, do whatever works and makes you happy, right?

Joe Fisher's picture
Joe Fisher

Poppy seeds = water, Sesame seeds = ice.

Is that sesame seeds will retard oven spring. Got it!

:)

I actually heat my water in the microwave for a minute before throwing it in the steam pan. I pop the water in the micro while I get the breads ready to go in the oven. Open the door, slide the loaves onto the stone, dump the hot water in the pan. Instant steam.

-Joe
Edit: I see JMonkey already posted the same info. Great minds think alike :)

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

I've had better luck with 2 cups of boiling water into a pre-headed iron skillet at the bottom of the oven. My oven vents so quickly, that I need the extra water to keep a decent amount of steam inside. I also spray water on the walls at 30 second intervals for the first 2 minutes.

Works well for me.

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

DON'T BLOCK THE OVEN VENTS.

I learned the hard way.

drmillsjr's picture
drmillsjr

What do you me "I learned the hard way"? What happened?

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Click the link to find out.

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

There are reasons that gas ovens are vented.  Like... they need air in order to burn the gas.  Like they need a way to get rid of the combustino gasses.

 

All in all.... like you said, don't blick the flippin' vents on a gas range.  Electric is OK though.

 

Mike

 

momtomany's picture
momtomany

After ruining a digital electric stove with spray cleaner I am missing analog stoves.  Darn digital stoves.

peppy's picture
peppy

Jeeze, that doesn't sound like fun. I'll try to keep this in mind when it's time for me to do this.

qahtan's picture
qahtan

I normally give a good water misting on loaf or loaves as they enter the hot oven, or put into cloche. My husband is an electrician say's no way to mist the walls of the oven.. This was sourdough baked under a cloche. qahtan 

Sylviambt's picture
Sylviambt

Beautify loaf, qahtan. Can you share more about the recipe and the temps at which you baked this?

In search of the perfect crust & crumb

Sylviambt's picture
Sylviambt

Have any of you taken old recipes, that often called for baking the bread an hour at 375 degrees F, and figured out how to bake the loaves in much hotter ovens on baking stones/tiles? I'd appreciate your advise.
Sylvia
In search of the perfect crust & crumb

qahtan's picture
qahtan

About the only time I use the recipes suggested temperature for bread is when I bake some thing like this....qahtan

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qahtan's picture
qahtan

You always get a good crispy crust when you use a cloche, before I bought
the one in KAF catalogue I used this one that my husband made for me,$7.99
at Home Depot, plus ring crew and washer, I ran the pot through the dishwasher first to remove any nasties that may have been on it :-))
But I always bake at a very high temperature,non convection, and I only mist as breads are entering the oven, never ever the oven walls. qahtan

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andrew_l's picture
andrew_l

Your loaf looked great and the idea of a cloche appeals.
Do you heat the cloche in the oven with your (appears to be) pizza stone? Then put the loaf on the stone and put hot cloche on top?
I can imagine this would simulate an old fashioned brick oven. If so - I shall get a terracotta pot like that and try it! But of course, that would only work with round loaves - my batons would have to be cooked in the oven without a cloche!

Andrew

qahtan's picture
qahtan

I let the dough, loaf final rise on the what was then a pizza stone, then sprayed the loaf with water put the cover/flower pot cover on, and into a very hot oven.

The tricky part is the amount of dough that will NOT touch the wall with it's oven spring.
So the bigger the pot and base stone the better.
Brown rice flour on the base. qahtan

helend's picture
helend

I've just used Peter Reinhart's recipe for a cinnamon raison walnut loaf (apparantly based on the one in Brother Juniper) using the "in the News" link on the right (Great idea Floyd - they are always worth browsing).

Anyway all went well with kneading, rising and Peter is right - a fantastic flavoured loaf - BUT - the oven temp??? 375f degrees just as stated in recipe.

I was really disappointed in lack of oven spring - YES a well risen loaf went in and came out exact'y the same BUT no extra "lift" or lightness and the crust is indifferent :~

I usually tackle new recipes as stated unless really unhappy with method before tinkering but wish I'd gone with my gut instinct one this one and heated my convection/fan oven to 200c (my oven cooks hot so "normal loaves" go in at 210-220c but enriched/egg/sweet doughs a little lower to prevent the top catching.

Still it eats well - no photo this time but I will do my best next time as I reckon the recipe is a keeper.

andrew_l's picture
andrew_l

So do I take it that the cloche and pizza stone are not heated first? In which case is there limited oven spring?

Thanks
Andrew

Eric's picture
Eric

I always preheat my oven to 500 degrees with the cloche inside before baking. In my opinion, this is pretty much the whole point of using a cloche - to quickly and easily approach the effect you would get by baking in a wood fired brick oven.

Eric

qahtan's picture
qahtan

As you can see by the loaf pictured above there was /is no shortage of oven spring.

Maybe you would like to take a look at this, or even Google "baking bread under a cloche"

This recipe is an adaptation of one that accompanied the La Cloche.
CRUSTY COUNTRY LOAF
1 1/2 teaspoons SAF yeast
1 teaspoon honey
1 1/2 cups warm water (100-110 degrees)
about 4-5 cups hard white whole wheat flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
Place the warm water in a large mixing bowl (I use a Bosch). Add SAF yeast and honey. Mix until yeast is dissolved.
Add salt and stir to mix. Add flour 1/2 cup at a time until a dough forms that holds together and cleans the sides of the bowl. Knead by hand for 10- 15 minutes, adding as little flour as possible to keep from sticking. Knead until dough is soft, but supple. If kneading by machine, knead 6-8 minutes.
Shape dough into a ball. Place the ball of dough in the
center of the La Cloche bottom. Cover with the dome lid and allow to rise in a warm place until doubled, about 30 minutes or more.
Preheat the oven to 450 degrees. With a sharp knife or blade, make criss cross slashes in the top of the risen round loaf. Place the La Cloche (lid on) in the preheated oven and bake for 15 minutes at 450 degrees.
Reduce the heat to 400 degrees and continue to bake another 30 minutes, or until bread is crusty and brown. During the last 10 minutes, the lid should be removed for a crustier crust.
Remove the loaf when done and place on a wire cooling rack.

metalstorm's picture
metalstorm

Hi, Im new here and glad to meet you.
Ive been trying to bake bread on and off over the years with some sorry results to some times okay.
I tried your poolish bread recipe and it turned out really good.
My problem was that I just got a new oven and didnt want to crank it up all the way.
So I used my gas grill.
I cranked it up on high with a pizza stone in the center and shut the lid and let it heat for the last twenty or so minutes of the loaves proofing.
I proofed them on a floured pizza peal.
When I put them on the stone, the grill was at 575 degrees.
I poured a cup of water on the hot plates under the grill and shut the lid.
About every minute I would lift the lid just far enough, and pour another cup of water.
This produced great clouds of steam for about five or six seconds and would drop the temperature about twenty degrees.
After five minutes, I turned off the center burner dropping the temp to 425 degrees, and let them bake for about fifteen more minutes.
The bread turned out crusty and yummy.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I needed to bake up a good crusty loaf to be an accompaniment for Cajun Shrimp.
The shrimp is baked in a sauce that needs a good bread to sop up all the
yummies. This loaf looked so good, but I was hesitant to try it because of
everyone's description of working with slack dough. I used 8 oz of water and
even though the dough was slack it was easily managed. My only error was
that I made it into one loaf...one gigantic loaf! I didn't print off the recipe
and I guess I thought since there was a picture of one loaf that was supposed to be
the end result. Even though I don't have stone yet..the loaf looks pretty good.
I will post a pic later. Don't be intimidated by the talk of wet dough as I was,
just try cutting back on the water to begin with. Next time I will try it a bit
wetter and see the difference.
I also baked a German Chocolate cake for dessert..just a few calories tonight!
The gangs all here ..time for dinner..
Happy Father's Day to all our Dads!!

mj's picture
mj

I've been baking bread for about 15 years. I haven't purchased "store bought" bread in about 10 years. I've tried numerous times to bake a nice, tasty artisan loaf with lots of good holes. (I'm not sure what this is really called, but I call it "holes":) Never had any success, until yesterday.

I followed the recipe for My Daily Bread and read the lessons. Thanks to this list I finally made a good loaf yesterday. I discovered that I had been making my dough too dry, over kneading it, and not baking it hot enough. Now all I have to do is make sure that I can do it again! Once could always be a mistake. :) After reading several posts, I decided that I should take photos of the good, the bad, and the ugly. Maybe it will help me to remember what I did to do it right or wrong.

Thank you for this great list!

MJ

purplelips's picture
purplelips

[don't throw things at me!!] Just thought I'd put a note up here to say I used the poolish recipe in my breadmachine and got dramatically better results than with any other method I have tried. I put the cup flour, cup water and 1/4 tsp yeast in my breadmachine pan while making dinner, then dumped in 1/4 cup water, 2 1/2 cups flour and 3/4 tsp salt at bedtime and awoke to a shiny, crisp but chewy crust, fairly dense aromatic loaf that compares not with everyone else is no doubt getting out of their steamy ovens, but is finally better than anything I can buy at the grocery store. Just wish I could get the crust a bit darker. Damn them for not making the machines more programmable. Thanks!

KNEADLESS's picture
KNEADLESS

This is for Paddyscake. Can you give us the recipe for the shrimp? This sounds like something I would love.

Thanks

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

This qualifies for the bread site cuz you have to have good crusty bread to eat
with this. What's cool is that you bake it all in one big dish. We like to take
this outside to eat, dish in the middle of the table, plenty of napkins and bread!!
Corn on the cob and you have a great meal. The best part is that it is so simple
and tastes like you had Emeril over to cook for you!

3 lbs uncooked large shrimp, unpeeled
3/4 c butter
1 1/2 c italian dressing
1/2 c lemon juice
1/2 c chopped fresh mint (don't skip, use 2 T dried if you have to)
4 crumbled bay leaves
2 T Worcestershire sauce
1 T tabasco
2 t pepper
1 t salt

Place shrimp in 13x9 glass baking dish. Melt butter over med heat. Whisk in
the remaining ingredients. Cool and then pour over shrimp. Marinate in refrigerator
2-3 hrs, stirring occasionally. Preheat to 450, then bake till shrimp are opaque
(for 13-15 count, 20-25 minutes, 15 minutes for smaller shrimp)
Hope you like it!
PS How goes your sourdough efforts?

KNEADLESS's picture
KNEADLESS

I'm one of those lucky people who are not crazy about sour dough so I don't have to continually feed and fret over a starter. Thanks for the shrimp recipe.

purplelips's picture
purplelips

I had to try it, and though I haven't tasted it, I'm pretty excited about how pretty this loaf is (in my newbie opinion).  This is my first loaf of bread!!  The dough was so wet I found it difficult to work with and so just made one big loaf. On one side where the loaf sat on the cookie sheet, there are rough edges that are blackened from where the wet dough was not tucked under tight, but I'll shave them off before serving.  Otherwise, this has well exceeded my expectations (especially when nervously trying to make a wet lump into a loaf last night!)

Thanks for this!

 

 

Deryn's picture
Deryn

I got an answer, thanks.

If you wanted to make double the amount of bread in this recipe, would you just make two batches and bake them all at once, or would you double everything in the recipe?
Thanks.
Deryn

entgod's picture
entgod

This is my seccond attempt at my daily bread, the first one tasted good and all but the shape was very bad

the only problem wit this one was that i managed to mix up teaspoons to tablespoons in salt :P

entgod's picture
entgod

I made a new one today and it came out as well as the one yesterday except with less salt, delicious :)

wdsgfm's picture
wdsgfm

 I finally made an attempt at this recipe a couple of days ago.  I keep forgetting to read all the comments below the original post so I was already into this loaf before discovering the wet dough parts.

My dough was very wet as well but I kept adding flour to make it work.  I created the poolish and then added the flour as instructed.  It was very sticky and I found it a challenge but finally got it to where I could work with it.  It just seems like I worked with it all day long however.

I've never had dough RISE as much as this did.  It was amazing to say the least and actually started overflowing my bowl at one point.

I should have made 3 loaves I think but made 2 instead per the instructions.  They were very large and after the final rise they too almost overflowed my baking sheet.

The bread had a good texture with some decent holes and even a couple of too large ones throughout.  Taste was good but I seem to keep creating a hard crispy crust that I'd rather not have.  I guess I'm cooking it at too high a temp.  I find that my bread is better the next day or even on the 3rd day as far as the crust is concerned.  I store it in a plastic bag and it softens up.

I will certainly try this again and hopefully one day can post some pictures of my own.  Thanks for the great recipe and instructions.  Be Blessed!!!

 "We're Making Footprints In The Sand"

eventualdave's picture
eventualdave

I just pulled this out of the oven and was unable to resist trying some hot. It smelled heavenly and tastes even better with a little salted butter. Just had to play with it a little, so I snuck a cup of whole wheat flour in with the rest of the bread flour and added two tablespoons of olive oil. Ended up WAY wet and sticky, and didn't rise much vertically, but man is it ever good.

Thanks, Floyd! This is only my fifth loaf of bread ever, and I'm having a blast.

mhof's picture
mhof

My first attempt at this recipe and any bread for the past 7 or so years... The crust is delicious, very crispy, and some of the crumb is nice but near the bottom it's kinda doughy. The temperature of the bread was up around 205 when I took it out, but I think either my thermometer is off or I stuck the thermometer so far in it was near the very top of the loaf. In any case, I'm enjoying it.

 

alaskabaker's picture
alaskabaker

I've never baked anything fancy that required something like a poolish. I did know about them though from a book that I gave to my mother-in-law, The Bread Bakers Apprentice. After seeing this recipe and finding other tips for the aspiring home baker of artisan/rustic breads I was inspired. Over the past weekend I made a loaf based on this recipe and it was fantastic.

Without a scale I had to guess the proper measurements of flour. Correct me if I'm wrong but would 1 lb. of flour come out to approximately 2-2/3 cups? Like other members who tried this recipe I too had to add more flour during the kneading process. Can someone offer a suggestion on how to properly add flour? I was adding 1/2 cup at a time and kneaded till the dough was tacky enough to peel away from the bowl without sticking to it. Anyway, below are a few pics on my results with the final being my set up in the oven.

 

 

 

In my oven I purchased six of these 6"x6" unglazed quarry tiles from Home Depot for about $3. I'm very happy with the results so I'll stick with them for now. As you can see I got a small cast iron skillet on the bottom of my oven for the steam part of my baking. Works like a charm.

mountaindog's picture
mountaindog

Those are beautiful loaves! Very nicely-shaped batards, great crust!

Ralmaroad's picture
Ralmaroad

Floyd:

   I tried the Daily Bread as well as I could since I'm not a baker and trusting the receipe.

After mixing the poolish with the autolyzed flower dry yeast and salt.  Do I disolve the yeast in extra water--I just added it in and stirred it with my hand and put it into a bowl that I sprayed with oil...Right or Wrong?  After 1 hour, I dumped it out on the heavily flowered counter top and just folded the back 1/3 to the middle and the front 1/3 to the middle and put it back into the washed and reoiled bowl.  Right or Wrong?  After letting it rise for another hour I formed it into three small round balls and let them rise for 3 hours but they were really flat and low.  How do you get them to be taller.  I did the baking thing of pre-heating the over to 500+ degrees without any stones but with the iron skillet in the bottom that I filled with water to create the steam.  I shut the door and watched them for about 5 minutes and resteamed them.  Let them bake for about another 15 minutes towhich they burned some.  Since I'm not any type of baker what am I doing wrong.  Harsh comments will not hurt my feeling at all.  If I stupid for doing things--Hey I'm retired and just learning.  Thanks as I'm going to try again Monday.  Anyone else who can tell me anything--please do.  Again Thanks

Ralmaroad's picture
Ralmaroad

What keeps the bread from sticking to these tiles?  Thanks

Cooky's picture
Cooky

... either to the tiles or to the pot (if you're using the closed-vessel /high-heat style), once they reach a certain point in the baking process. I'm sure one of the chemists on the site can explain what exactly happens that makes the solid bread separate  cleanly from the cooking surface, but there is no need for oil or grease when baking a lean (i.e., no fat or dairy) dough. 

 

 

I am not a cook. But I am sorta cooky."

sob8864's picture
sob8864

People who will bite the hand that feeds them will lick the boots that kick them!

 

Damn!  I've been looking for these tiles for YEARS!  I'm sure I called Home Depot & they didn't know what I was talking about!  So I'm using a pizza stone. 

I made this recipe for the first time the other day.  EVERYTHING went wrong!  I already had a poolish (Mother) in the fridge, so I used that.  I spent ALOT of time trying to convert the weight to Imperial (Cups), since I don't have a scale; I came up with 3 1/3 cups per pound.  It looked like the Mother was dormant so I screwed around with that for awhile.

 Finally, got it going.  It was at least 3 times bigger than his picture!  I wasn't sure I would get it out of the oven!  LOL

 But, boy, was it good!  My best bread, so far.

Has anyone tried to double the recipe?  I like to give a loaf to the lady next door.

 sob

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

sob8864 commented

I've been looking for these tiles for YEARS!  I'm sure I called Home Depot & they didn't know what I was talking about!  So I'm using a pizza stone.

 

If you talk to the usual high school kids at a home depot, lowes, sutherland or whatever, they'll give you the deer in the headlights look and not know what you're talking about.

 

So, if they say they've never heard of unglazed quarry tiles, ask to talk to the deparment manager.  Usually the manager WILL know what you are talking about, and where to find them.   And the high school kid will learn something.  Whether they retain it or not is another matter.

 

Mike

 

LindyD's picture
LindyD

I found several boxes this weekend at Home Depot. Ten bucks a box. Unglazed quarry tiles in red. Was looking for them all winter and they finally showed up.

However, there was a warning printed in large red letters on the box, stating that the silica sand contained in the tiles can cause cancer or other serious lung problems.

These were the smaller tiles and while I don't make it a point to sniff tiles, they do break. So I opted out and ordered a baking stone to replace my too small pizza stone.

Maybe I'm being overly cautious?

maxamilliankolbe's picture
maxamilliankolbe

I suppose you don't happen to know the manufacturer, do you?

grrranimal's picture
grrranimal

 

 Floyd:

 Just wanted you to know that I've been working your daily bread recipe for the last couple of weekends and am just loving it.  I'm using a longer, cool ferment, and I'm shaping more like un-scored baguettes, but in all other ways I'm staying faithful to your recipe.

It's frankly given me the crumb I've always hoped for: lots of air and very elastic, with a great crust.

Will put up a pic later today, if I can get my butt in gear.   

Thanks a bunch!

 

Prandium longa. Vita brevis.

sob8864's picture
sob8864

People who will bite the hand that feeds them will lick the boots that kick them!

 

Floyd,

 

I don't know if I'm posting this in the right place but I have a question.  I want to include a small loaf of My Daily Bread in my Christmas baskets this year.  I'm thinking to take the dough through the second rise & place in a loaf pan & freeze.  Then give the recipents instructions on how to thaw & bake so they can have that wonderful smell & taste of fresh bread.

 

Will this work???

 

Thanks

sob

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I have no idea, I've never tried that. You've got two weeks though: give it a shot!

grrranimal's picture
grrranimal

 

Floyd:

Just to benchmark, what is the range of your average first rise time with this?

Thanks, in advance.  Grrr.

Prandium longa. Vita brevis.

steve817's picture
steve817

Hi Folks,

I'm new here. I tried to make this loaf using the original recipe but it was just too wet.

 I scrapped the original project and started over, this time only using about half of the water called for 

 I'm gonna try putting photos up. Not bad for a first effort I think. Or should I say second?

My first tryMy first try

Another shotAnother shot 

Hope everyone can see this.

armyofmuffins's picture
armyofmuffins

I made this the other day and wow!  I've never used a poolish before, and actually this was my first try with all-purpose flour!  (I was pretty ambitious starting with only wheat)  The dough was wet, but the second rise on top of my little toaster oven was great, and the flavor-amazing!

 

 

(that's all that was left of the loaf by the time I got my camera out) 

mwiener's picture
mwiener

Hi, all.  I'm a long-time lurker (especially benefiting from the lessons and videos), but this is my first post.   I've made this recipe twice now, with similar results, and I have two questions.  I have two questions.

First, like many others, I found the dough exceptionally sticky.  I can barely shape a loaf, and when I do, they spread a lot.  How do people deal with this?  I've read of using wet hands, for example. 

Second, both times the bread was spectacular right out of the oven (at least by my standards, and my wife's).  But the next morning, it was a little heavy - perhaps a bit stale.  I know that bread without preservatives is going to go stale faster than bread with - but this was faster than other breads I've made.  Has anyone had a similar experience?  Or advice on what I may be doing wrong (or not enough, or too much) to make this happen?

Thanks, Floyd, for starting the site, and to everyone for all the useful information.

 Matt 

bensara91513's picture
bensara91513

Hi! I'm new here, and I just tried the Daily Bread this morning, exactly as written. (although I did add just a bit of wheat flour, while mixing, to help form the dough. I still left it pretty wet, though.)
I have to say, I found it a delightful dough and it yeilded 2 amazing loaves! Absolutely delicious AND beautiful! Thanks so much for this recipe!

 

Judy

sandrasfibre's picture
sandrasfibre

Can I make the poolish, put it in the frige, and then use only a portion of it to any bread recipe.  Say 1/4 cup each time.  It will last for about 2 weeks I think I read somewhere.  So I would be able to get four or six loaves of bread out of t his one poolish?  Is this possible?

kbadelm@hotmail.com's picture
kbadelm@hotmail.com

I tried my first loaf of Pain sur poolish.

 

It came out great although I ended up having ot add about another 1.5 cups of flour.

 

I was wondering if adding a 1/4 cup of malt powder would give it more flavor.  Any Ideas?? 

Poulish's picture
Poulish

I've made this loaf many times now and it is scrumptious! However, the last two times I've baked, something has gone wrong.

I've noticed the poolish water hasn't gotten completely incorporated after it's been out over night. This is new; before there was no extra water sitting under the "glop." Also the last two times, the baked bread hasn't turned out. I get many bubbles on the top of the loaf and the loaf itself barely rises. When I cut into it, the top crust is very thin and the top inch of bread is so lacey with holes that there is only about 2 inches of bread below to eat. Why is this happening? It's very frustrating as I don't think I'm doing anything differently.

 

peartree's picture
peartree

Love this bread!

OK here's my 2 cents: 

I've noticed that when I don't get around to using my poolish in the usual interval of time it starts to separate and look watery at the bottom.  I'll bet your poolish wanted to be used before you got to it - probably it bubbled up and dropped down.  Has it been warmer in your kitchen than usual? That would certainly cause things to speed up in your poolish. A warmer environment may also be responsible for the over-risen top part of your bread. Perhaps you can cool things down a little (or speed them up to account for the summer temps).

 Keep us posted!

Poulish's picture
Poulish

Floyd, that is exactly what happened! Would it make any difference if I drained the water off? (I thought I should use it.) Or does that whole episode render the poolish not usable? Is there any clue to when that separation begins? Thanks for the feedback.

peartree's picture
peartree

Here's my weekend effort (minus 1 loaf I gave away). I used a perforated curved pan for the baguette and the batard. The batard oozed out over the edge of its pan and has a bit of a handle, but it still made that great crackling sound when it came out of the oven.

Pain sur poolishPain sur poolish

Exiled's picture
Exiled

i am a newbie in terms of bread making and plan to try out your poolish recipe. reading all the comments i have become slightly confused with two aspects which i would be thankful if clarified. Firstly, the wetness of the dough...i guess if you do not have to knead the dough during its rise and use the folding technique instead, the whole process would not be so tough. so why must more flour be added? Secondly after adding the poolish to the rest of the ingredients and mixing how many rises must the dough be subjected to? If i understand correctly, you mix the poolish and the rest of the ingredients let it rise for around 1 1/2 - 2 hours, folding it every hour and then shape/ scour the bread and put into the oven. Am i right? or should the dough be left to rise once more after its shaped? look forward to your expert advice here!


thanks

00lewis00's picture
00lewis00

I have made the Daily Bread twice, and both times the loaves came out flat.  They looked good as I shaped them, but spread out as the rose and stayed that way as they baked.  I am using AP flour, and Active yeast.  I did two 1 hour rises, then rose the shaped loaves for 1.5 hours.  The bread tastes great, but I want a taller loaf.  Any suggestions?

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

oolewisoo,


Assuming that your measurements of flour and liquid are correct, here are some things that can help your bread stand up:


1. Autolyse - sounds dangerous, doesn't it?  It's simply the practice of mixing most of the flour and all of the liquid in the recipe together, then letting it sit for 20-60 minutes.  Then you can add in yeast or levain, and salt.  The sitting time gives the liquid an opportunity to hydrate the gluten in the flour, which gives the dough more strength.


2. Adequate kneading - can be done by mixer or by hand.  Whatever technique you use (machine mixing with a dough hook, hand kneading, stretch and fold, French fold, letter fold, other), the objective is to have the finished dough be smooth and elastic.  Whole-grain doughs typically require more kneading than white-flour doughs to achieve full gluten development and their textures will be somewhat rougher.  Doughs with high rye contents are another matter entirely.


3. Surface tension - After the dough has proofed and is ready for shaping, your shaping technique has two objectives.  First, to achieve the shape you want for the finished bread.  Second, to develop enough surface tension in the skin of the loaf to help support it during the final proof and bake.  Most shaping techniques involve stretching the top and side surfaces of the dough down and tucking them underneath.  Note that super-wet doughs, like ciabatta, don't follow the same rules for shaping.


4. Support - while proofing, that is.  You can use brotforms (willow or plastic baskets), bannetons (also baskets, sometimes with cloth liners), couches (can be made of linen, or cotton, or even a non-terry dish towel, or bakers parchment).  the brotforms, bannetons, or cloth couches are usually heavily floured so that the dough does not stick to them.


That's the Readers Digest version.  You can find a lot more detailed material here about the topic by using the search box that is located in the upper left corner of each page.  There are also a number of videos that have been posted here which demonstrate the techniques.


Paul

ein's picture
ein

I'm new to the fresh loaf site and this is my first try at bread with a preferment. I appreciate the wealth of info I've learned so far and the knowledge shared here gave me the confidence to try 'My Daily Bread'.


I'm at the point of my fourth folding. The dough seemed quite wet at first but now it can be handled. I've got some pretty huge bubbles through out the dough, some as large as golf balls, Should I make sure to break them while I'm folding or be carefull not too?  A newbie question! Thanks for the help.

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Somewhere in the middle: you want to be rough enough with the dough that you get good tightness on the surface, but soft enough that you leave many of the holes in it.  It's a tough to nail it just right.


Good luck!

ein's picture
ein

Thank you for the good advice Floyd ... and great recipe.  I'm very pleased by this attempt. I've got lots to learn and looking forward to it.


 



 


This magic loaf came out of the oven at 5PM. At 530 we received a call that our first granddaughter was born. So we broke some bread in celebration. How sweet it is!

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Looks really good, and congratulations!


 

00lewis00's picture
00lewis00

Thanks for the thoughtful answer Paul.  Upon looking a little deeper I found I was using the wrong yeast.  I now know that instant yeast is the same as rapid rise.  I was using active.  My next loaves came out nice and plump.  I have been being more conscious of surface tension and did use a form to support it in proofing.  It is working much better now.  Lewis

chykcha's picture
chykcha

This loaf look just right!  Congratulations with family addition!

xipmix's picture
xipmix

What an extraordinary recipe. I tried this over this weekend and despite my goofs, I turned out one of the best-looking loaves I've ever made.

The poolish was simple enough.

First mistake - I mixed in the salt and yeast for the autolysis stage, not just the flour & water. Oh well.

With Australian flours being a bit low in gluten, I added 1.5-2.0 oz of gluten flour. This is about double the recommended rate on the packet, but consistent with other recipes I have. I added 8oz water and got a shaggy mess, with some dry bits. I wet my hands under the tap and that gave me enough moisture to get all the scraps into a (somewhat patchy) lump. Left it covered for half an hour or so. When I came back it was nice and soft and evenly dampened.

Then I added the poolish. What a mess. It had separated a little (10h after mixing) but seemed ok. The process of mixing together the autolysed flour with the poolish was ugly; the lump of dough did not dissolve easily, I had to work the pieces of it a lot with my fingers to get them out - didn't get all of them either. The dough was very wet and stringy, sticking to the bowl a lot, almost like a heavy sponge mixture.

I tried beating it by hand, and also just pulling it around - up and out of the bowl, drop it back in. It stretched a long way. Eventually it started to seem more cohesive (but nothing like a dough) so I put it aside for a couple of hours, just covered in the mixing-up bowl. At this stage, I wasn't expecting much from this experiment. Rising temp was 23C.

When I came back, the lumps had evened out somewhat and the dough texture was improved. Did the folding thing, cleaned and oiled the bowl and set it aside another two hours.

On my return, it was looking better again. Repeat the folding, tucking the ends under to get more of a ball-like shape, and set it aside again for 2h.

To shape, I used a method shown in Richard Olney's "The Good Cooks Encyclopaedia" - one kneading stroke, quarter turn, repeat 4 times. Then grab the ends and draw underneath to put some tension on. Scrunched up the seam as well as I could and laid the dough (it could now be called 'dough') on a baking sheet. I supported it with rolled up tea towels as 'couches' (two on each side).

Two hours later, ready to bake. Heated our poor old oven as high as it will go (about 260C) with a small roasting pan on the oven floor. Slash the loaf, put it in the oven a few seconds later and pour boiling water into the roasting pan.

Baked as Floyd suggests, 5min on HOT and the rest a bit slower, 230C for me. I needed another 5min at the end after I checked for doneness.

The loaf will be a gift for someone tomorrow, hopefully I'll remember to make a note here on how it tasted.

xipmix's picture
xipmix

tasted ... great!


Inside the bread had a solid look to it, much like Floyd's picture. The larger holes, up to say 5mm in diameter, were mainly at the top of the loaf. The colour inside was a little greyish, but the bread had a nice moistness and good flavour. Can't wait to give it another go.

TeaIV's picture
TeaIV

how many cups of flour and water would this be? I would really like to make this bread!

TeaIV's picture
TeaIV

can someone please let me know what these measurements are in cups? I've not a scale, and am clueless when it comes to baking with grams.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Welcome.  The recipe is at the top of the page.  Cups are so variable but 8 fl oz is a cup.  There are 16 dry oz in a pound.  Fluid oz and dry oz are not the same.  Reading the discussion should give you an idea what 1 pound of flour should be... somewhere between 2 1/2 to 3 cups depending on the flour. 


Mini

TeaIV's picture
TeaIV

thank you! I appreciate it. I think i can figure it out from here.

TeaIV's picture
TeaIV

I just finished baking a loaf of this, and it turned out MAGNIFICENT! I don't think I've ever had better bread! Thank you for the recipe.


-TeaIV

brakeforbread's picture
brakeforbread

Sorry for the silly question, but in a recipe like this (and typically) when an amount of a liquid is noted in ounces, is that liquid volume or by weight?


 


I weight all dry ingredients, but I'm never sure if I should be measure weights of liquid or volume.


 


Thanks.

gaaarp's picture
gaaarp

When it comes to water, liquid volume and weight are the same ("a pint is a pound the world around", as my grandmother used to say).  As for other liquids, I would take a cue from the other measurements.  For example, if the dry ingredients are given in pounds and ounces, it's safe to assume the liquid ingredients are, too.

TeaIV's picture
TeaIV

so a cup of water (8 fluid oz.) should be also 8 regular ounces?

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

8 oz = 8 oz...always...


Betty

TeaIV's picture
TeaIV

someone said differently (above).

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Im not quite sure what you were asking. 8oz liquid is equal to 8oz dry?


Betty

TeaIV's picture
TeaIV

I'm asking about fluid ounces versus ounces... never mind though, I'll figure some other way to do it...

gaaarp's picture
gaaarp

One fluid ounce of water weighs one ounce.  So scaling water is the same as measuring it by the ounce in a measuring cup.


The same is not true of other fluid ounces.  For example, one liquid ounce of whole milk does not weigh one ounce.  And skim milk will weigh different than whole or buttermilk.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Sorry, I have always been math challenged..liquid=fluid to me


so one is by weight, the other by volume?


I understand that a cup of flour does not equal a cup of water


Sorry TealV ,


Sorry to be so stupid. Gaarp thanks for stepping in


 

Yumarama's picture
Yumarama

Liquid is the same as fluid.


The different "ounces" are liquid and dry (or weight).


Water is what it's all based on. So 8oz liquid measure (your typical Pirex glass measuring cup) is also 8 oz in weight, for water. But for other stuff, it changes.


8 oz liquid of honey is still at the 8 oz mark on the Pirex cup but if you weigh it, it's going to be subtantially more since it's a heavier substance than water. Then if you measured 8 oz liquid of oil, again, in the Pirex cup, that is still the same but weigh it and it weighs less than the water (which is why it floats).


You'll be better off weighing everything in grams. And no, you don't have to be scared of grams, it's all based on tens, not crazy 16's like ounces and pounds. And you weight everything, including liquids. You'd add 372 grams of flour, 219 grams of water, 14 grams of salt, 10 grams of instant yeast (I'm making these amounts up) but it's all grams, and you add until you have what you need. It actually much simpler and very much more accurate than the old ounces and other ounces and pounds and cups.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I do weigh everything in grams, you don't have to convince me. I was trying to answer TealV's question. I'll just sit and absorb info, rather than trying to help anyone else!


Thanks


Betty

charbono's picture
charbono

An avoirdupois ounce weighs 28.35 grams. A fluid ounce of water under standard conditions weighs 29.57 grams.

Sources:

Webster’s Third New Int’l Dictionary
Julia Child & Company

Thus one cup, or eight fluid ounces, of water weighs 8.3 ounces.

TeaIV's picture
TeaIV

thanks, Charbono! that would make it a lot easier to approximate for some recipes!!


 


no worries, betty, I knew less than you. ;)

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

Discouraged?  Not in the least!!  First time ever with a poolish.  First time with a wet dough.  First time baking on a stone.  NO PICTURES.  Loaves? Odd name for what I got.  The dough stuck to the improvised proof baskets.  I was saved by oven spring. There's got to be some gaping holes in the crumb.  What a ride!!  Rereading the comments and I understand some of my challenges are shared.  I know lots about what I will change for next time.  Less water, a little more flour, highly floured board, instant yeast, real proof baskets.
    I am totally pumped that the hunks o' bread that resulted look NOTHING like square sandwich bread, then again they don't look like any artisan made 'em either unless he was on drugs.  Nonetheless these are free form beauties even if they are only appreciated by me.  They will go nicely with a little Italian bean dip I learned in a restaurant I worked in.  Cannellini beans, garlic, olive oil, rosemary and salt throw it all in a food processor with a little of the bean water.  I could live on it.
     With my brick oven coming I can see the future and it looks good.  50 lbs of flour and I should have a handle on this.  I don't mean expert just not a rookie any more.

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

If you got good oven spring it must have been fine.


Now about the bean dip. I've made it and love it but I'd like to know the proportions you use.


How lucky you are to be getting brick oven. Have fun.

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

weavershouse--Having a ball!!  Thanks for the encouraging post.  Truth be told I baked until late last night and needed to wait until the wee smalls to taste it and then went to bed shortly thereafter.  This am I am postively giddy.  Can't wipe the smile off my face.  Yesssss! It tastes great and no junk in it.


2.  I cooked up a bunch o' beans in a claypot on the back of the stove the other day in anticipation of this event.  Can you say slow food?  I do it by taste and by feel but when I make a batch today I will attempt to document that feel.


3.  You, too, can have a brick oven.  Everything I am learning about the building of a brick oven came from books and the Internet.  There are Yahoo groups to help you build just like this one helps you bake.  cleancarpetman at msn dot com and I can shorten some of that search.  I am convinced it isn't as hard or expensive as we make it in our minds.  I aim to prove it, stay tuned.


H.

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

weavershouse, et al,
     So Steve, is it baking bread or writing about it that you like best?  Well... I like sawing off slice after slice knowing I can make more.  I love watching my kids take an active role in consumption and ingesting Mediterraean culture along with their bean dip and returning for seconds and then a little more... Hey, there's no chocolate in it.


This is what I had on hand but would have preferred fresh garlic and rosemary


Fageoli Rosemarino 


3 C  fresh cooked cannellini, small white or navy beans or canned rinsed and drained
1/2 C fruity olive oil
1/2 C  cooking liquid or water just off boil
2 tsp dried rosemary, crushed fine
2 tsp garlic salt
1 1/2 tsp salt or to taste


Place beans and the rest of the ingredients in a food processor and blend to a smooth puree.  To serve, spoon warm or room temperature dip into small ramekins and lighty drizzle with olive oil the best you have.  Cut crusty open crumb bread into hand sized pieces about two bites each and present with the dip.  A few hours in the fridge melds the flavors into a heady repast.  Warm or bring to room temp before you serve.


Enjoy.


I am preparing another days daily bread, a double batch.  When I combined the base and poolish I mixed salt and yeast into flour with a whisk to distribute it then added 10oz of water and poolish and mixed it with a spatula to incorporate a ragged dough, which came together easily then set timer for ten minutes and mixed with dough hook and KA.  Not waiting 'forever and a day' for the dough hook to chase and catch all the flour on its own makes mixing much more efficient, I discovered.  It avoids throwing flour overboard, too.  I am sure the mixer appreciated the help.  I could see that the whole ten minutes was kneading instead of playing tag with the flour.
   I am waiting for the first fold as I write this but I already know that this is a superior batch to yesterdays blind walk in the dark.  What a difference a day makes--cliche or not!!


More later.


H.


 

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

      Just folded the first half of my double batch of Daily Bread dough.  I used a highly floured board but even for a novice it felt sooooo right on.  All the folds went together just like in the movies.  I watched Mark Sinclair stretch and fold one more time and applied the new learning as I was doing the same thing.  What a fantastic tool the Internet is!
     So, now the first two loaves are baked.  I didn't get the spring I did yesterday.  Possibly because there is lower hydration.  Possibly because there is no steam, but there wasn't any steam yesterday, either.  I shaped two boules and two baguettes and the first baguette is baking now.
      I already have the poolish started for tomorrow.  I want to figure this puppy out straight away.  I forgot to halve one of my loaves yesterday and I think I like that bigger loaf--more usable slices.
      Last baguette in the oven.  What do you do with all that burned flour or cornmeal on the stone?  I had to take a swipe at it with my oven mitt.  I think I will make more of an effort to clean it before bringing the oven back to 550.  Makes heap big smoke and is generally disliked by the wife unit.  She's cute and I like living here.
      Thanks for letting me ramble here.  You talk any of this stuff with non-bakers and first you notice the blank stare and then the eyes roll back in the head.  Feel free to jump in with any suggestions.  I also think its cool that a formula such as this that has been around for awhile, all of a sudden jumps back to life when somebody shows an interest in it and starts to document their experience.  Too cool.
    Hey, its getting late and when that dinger on the oven goes I am calling it a day-- a very good day!!


Lleno con su gozo y paz!


H.


 


 


 


 

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

Instead of using flour/cornmeal/semolina to keep your bread from sticking to the peel or stone, try using a piece of baking parchment paper.  No stickies, no smoke.  And you can usually get several rounds of baking from each piece before they get too crispy to hold together any more.


Paul

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

This has been a weekend long project and today is Monday and we have a lot of bread experiments in ziplocs.  But, Oh! what I learned in the process.  Turns out it didn't take me 50 pounds of flour to get very comfortable with this recipe.  I eventually returned to follow the recipe to the letter with 12 oz of water and it turned out great.  I honed my techniques and I am filled with satisfaction of having achieved my goal.  I am forever grateful to Floyd and ALL of the contributors to this site who have gone before me.  This has been a tremendous discovery.  


The first image is the final loaf using 12 oz of water. This felt like a major step forward.  The pace and rhythm of baking and listening to jazz all went smoothly. It was pure joy since I knew that I had nailed it.  I look at soup recipes with a different eye. I know I am not going to rush out to the supermarket just before the soup is on to get "good bread"  I kin make it myself, thank you very much.  
I am dreaming of garlic and rosemary or kalamata olives.


 Photobucket


This is where I started and where I finished.  The "little blob" was a poolish and base that never incorporated and then stuck to "my peel", an improvised cookie sheet.  The loaf stuck and dragged and left dough hanging over the edge of the bake stone I just shut the oven door and walked away.  To my utter surprise the lift from oven spring stood it right up.  I rejoiced at that moment thankful that not all had failed.


 


Photobucket


This crumb looks pretty tight here but there are places that are more open. 
I apologize that it is not clearer, new phone with a camera.


Photobucket


The bread and photos will all get better as time goes on.


That's all for now!


H.


 


 

jet's picture
jet

I love this recipe and it's possibliities for experimentation. (Working on this recipe with rye poolish - really good). I have not been able to acheive a really crisp crust, however. Is it the nature of this recipe, or something more I need to do? My oven will go as high as 550, so I've baked the bread at 550 for 5-7 minutes with steam before turning it down to 475. Do I need to bake it longer at a higher temp? I was hoping someone with more experience may be able to help me out a little. Thanks.

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

Jet, I may not be the guy you need to talk to.  Yes, I baked this bread.  No, it didn't have a crisp crust.  I have decided to do a "clay bake" experiment with Romertopfs and a cloche.  Steam is one answser.  The Romertopfs start in a cold oven but are soaked and the water driven out by the heat.  Spritzing the loaf with water is someting I will try with the homemade cloche


Photobucket

bodger's picture
bodger

First of all, thanks for running a great site full of a tremendous amount of information... it's all so helpful to complete novices like me.


I made your daily bread and am pretty happy with the results, but I'm still getting a few peculiar things happening which seem to occur every time I make bread, irrespective of the recipe (I've only made a dozen of so loaves in total so still a complete beginner):


1. Relatively poor oven spring / too closed crumb, although this is gradually improving so I suspect it's to do with my poor handling technique after fermentation and during shaping. As this is gradually getting better I'm not as fussed about this as hopefully I'll eventually get there!
2. Strange crumb texture. Now, I haven't eaten a huge amount of artisanal bread so it might be that I'm just not accustomed to how the loaf should turn out (although I'm lucky enough eat out in nice restaurants fairly frequently and their bread is never like mine). My crumb is always slightly gelatinous - hard to describe, but not white or even cream, more grey / plasticky. It's always fairly rubbery (which is fine for toast as it's a nice contrast to the crispy outer toasted surface) but not massively endearing in untoasted slices.


Re: the crumb, I'm wondering whether I'm using a too-high gluten flour and/or overworking the gluten. I'm in Britain and don't have easy access where I live to artisanal flours - I tend to use Allinson bread flour with a stated gluten content of c. 12.5%.


I followed your recipe but modified the method slightly. I made the poolish and left out overnight - when I came back to it the following morning there was a slight separation which perhaps might suggest it was overdone a bit? I also made the dough with 10oz water (and excluding poolish, obviously) and put in the fridge overnight to retard. I thought this might improve the flavour. I mixed the dough until it just came together in my KA and didn't add any more flour throughout the whole process so once I added the poolish I was working with a very wet dough.


I added the poolish the following morning and it was a bit tricky because the dough was very cold - I probably should have let it reach room temp before mixing. I had to use the KA a fair bit to incorporate the two different mixtures, but mixed on a low speed (1) for probably a minute, maximum. I didn't knead (not sure it was capable of kneading!) but I effected quite a few "folds" using a spoon in the bowl. I then let the wet dough rise for about 2.5-3 hours on my worksurface. I tried a few alternative methods for preventing a skin forming - a few wet sheets of Bounty (probably the most successful), an oiled sheet of cling film - which stuck - and an upturned bowl, which the dough managed to push up and escape from! After 30, 60 and 120 minutes I did a number of stretch and folds using my scraper (it was too wet to handle with even wet hands, at least for me). I noticed significant gluten development and strengthening during these manoeuvres.


Eventually it was ready to "shape" (a misnomer if there ever were one) - I cut the bulk dough into two and put one in a loaf tin rather clumsily and the other into a round, flat-bottomed pyrex dish (and managed to knock a fair bit less air out of that one). Both containers were oiled and dusted with rice flour. I dusted the tops of the loaves with more rice flour. I let both rise for another 45 minutes while I heated the oven to max. Once done I put them in for half an hour, turning 180 degrees after 15 minutes. I inserted my probe thermometer and after almost exactly 30 minutes (slightly less for the loaf tin) the internal temp was 95 degrees C. Took them out and let cool. I turned the oven down to 200 once the internal temp reached 35 degrees C (i.e. the oven spring had pretty much finished) as I wanted soft-crusted loaves (my wife prefers these).


The taste was amazing - really bready, but definitely cooked and delicious. The crust was perfect for what I wanted - really soft. But the crumb is still odd! Makes fantastic toast but it seems like you're chewing a sponge (it's not that tough, but it's a definite plasticky texture).


Anybody with any ideas why my crumb always goes odd? Is it rubbish bread flour with too much poor quality gluten or am I overworking the dough (hard to believe given I've pretty much been autolysing and hand kneading/s&f-ing)???


Help!


 

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

Bodger--Have you read this whole thread?  I seem to remember Floyd jumping in at some point and saying that he stretched and folded the dough on a HIGHLY floured surface.  This wet dough whether made with 10 or 12 oz of water will incorporate a great deal of flour at that point and become workable, even more so the second fold just prior to shaping.  Mark Sinclair's videos on shaping dough are great.  After stretching and folding, he turns the dough over pushes the dough ball across the work surface.  The friction from the work surface "catches" the dough and its as though the ball is "running over" the dough that is caught.  Surface tension increases and stretches the dough surface tight. He then places his hands in front of the dough and does the same thing dragging the dough toward himself.  A quick ninety degree turn and he pushes away again.  It is subtle if you watch the video but knowing what he is doing helps understand what you see.  Better to watch the video than read the explanation. This technique, once grasped, will help you anytime you shape dough. He is promising a set of DVD's and I will be interested in those as well.
    I can't help much with the crumb at this point, it is beyond my expertise.  Perhaps it will change with different recipes or sourdough.  I clearly don't have the answer.  I just posted some pictures of clay baking that you might be interested in since I used the My Daily Bread recipe.


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10490/clay-bakingi-have-decided-throw-myself-under-bus#comment-55900


     For me baking on a stone and with a cloche is definite progress for where I want to go but to each his own.


h.


  


  

bodger's picture
bodger

cleancarpetman, thanks for the quick reply...


 


I did indeed work my way through the whole thread (as well as a lot of others!) so I noticed a fair bit of extra flour was added in during the kneading/folding stages.


 


I wanted to continue to experiment with a wet dough (my previous dough for 3 ciabatte was c. 90-95%!) so I didn't want to add the extra flour.  It did make shaping rather haphazard but I was hoping to get much better oven spring and a more open crumb.  I don't have a camera to hand so I can't upload any photos but this recipe has yielded the best crumb structure so far (even better than the ciabatta dough which was so wet I couldn't handle it without deflating).


 


I'm reasonably happy shaping lower hydration dough (up to about 75%) but above that I find I just have to dump it from the counter into the loaf tin - I use my scrapers to put in some stretch and folds beforehand to build up a bit of tension but it's nothing like "normal" dough.


 


The odd thing about my crumb texture is that it's consistent!  No matter which recipe I use I always end up with the same thing.  Perhaps I'm just expecting something "white" and more like bread I get in a restaurant???  Maybe it's my flour, although I've tried using different flours which are available in my local supermarket (either own brand or Allinsons)...


 


Bizarre, but if anyone can help it'd be appreciated!

bodger's picture
bodger

By the way, you have the most amazing crust on your cut loaf in that link!  Awesomely thin but looks really, really crispy... masterful!


 


I love a soft crust but can appreciate yours so much...

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

The crust was a fortunate accident not anything I did on purpose or had control of.  The picture came out better than I hoped as well since I am even newer at photography than baking.  That said how does the crumb compare to your result. since we can't see your crumb? I found a discussion on "Holeyness" by Steve B that may be just what we are both aspiring to.  On the link you also saw some Romertopf loaves which I baked with a soft crust that turned much crustier and crisp as they cooled.  My first attempts at this recipe yielded a soft and chewy crust.  The cloche seems to be the difference and now they are crisper.


der Hinterhof


 

bodger's picture
bodger

Your crumb looks a lot more "natural" than mine - perhaps fluffier is the best description.  My crumb is probably a fair bit more open (perhaps due to the higher hydration level) with a lot of even-sized holes, perhaps 2mm average diameter.  I'm quite pleased with the openness (I want the loaf as a sandwich loaf) but it's the actual texture which is the issue - quite plasticky and rubbery.  Having said that, given the hydration level I should probably be getting an even more open-textured loaf, which perhaps suggests I'm over handling the dough after bulk fermentation.


 


I've just started another poolish with a different, all-purpose flour.  The lower gluten content might help point out whether it's this which is causing me the problems...

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

I have prepared a double batch of My Daily Bread with my own variations and have put it in a dough trogh and refrigerated it for 15 hours.  Do I bring it to room temp?  How long?  Do I shape dough and proof one more time?  No emergency just a little advice.


h.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here....


I understand you were following the directions at the top and instead of bulk rising, you put the dough into the fridge, correct?   That would mean you take out the dough to warm up a few hours then proceed as directed:



"I typically fold the dough once an hour twice during primary fermentation, then shape the loaves and give them a longer final rise, typically around 90 minutes. Meanwhile, my oven and baking stone are preheating as hot as they can safely go."



As you fold the dough you will become aware of the bubbles in the dough, it increases in body and becomes rounder and lighter.  Fold & rest, fold & rest and do as many times as you can without tearing the dough.  Then yes, let if have a final rise before baking.  You might not have to wait 90 min though.


Mini

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

Don't mind at all your jumping in and am honored to have your counsel.  I mixed the dough yesterday starting somewhere near 3PM.  I put the dough in two additions into the trough and waited an hour, stretched and folded, another hour stretch and folded again then into the fridge around 5PM


now here we are a few hours later looking into the trough wondering what to do next.


h.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Take the dough out of the fridge, let it warm up for a few hours. Then follow the instructions in the box. Below the box, she explains how to know when your dough is ready to let have it's final proof. Good luck, Post pics


Betty

cleancarpetman's picture
cleancarpetman

Mini O-- the last time I posted about bulk fermentation I couldn't wait for the response and went ahead and baked, then I posted what I did.  I know it appeared as though I went off on my own disregarding your advice.
      Its been awhile since I wrote all that but here is what happened when I followed your excellent instruction.  I put together several starters and left them in the fridge 4 or 5 days.  On Saturday afternoon I put the base and last starter together, let it rise and fold twice then popped it into the fridge.  On Sunday I pulled it and allowed just under a two hour warm up.  The dough was enough for four small boules of My Daily Bread.  I instead divided it in half and went with two oversize loaves and baked for 7 minutes at 550* and thirty five minutes at 465*   
  


Photobucket Photobucket


The oven spring was incredible and I got some gapers.  Thanks so much for the help in stepping ahead here.


ccm


 

TeaIV's picture
TeaIV

has anybody tried this with whole wheat? anyone who did care to share results?

sarahsari's picture
sarahsari

I have made this with half plain white flour and half whole-wheat flour.  It tastes great - I recommend you try it!  My cousin is a whole wheat lover and she gobbles up this bread when I make it.

ericb's picture
ericb

I love the the texture of this bread. The crumb is light and airy, the crust thin and crisp. While these are not attributes everyone strives for when making artisan bread, it's a nice change of pace for me.


I would love to bake a sourdough loaf similar to this, but the recipes I use most often have a tougher crumb and thicker crust. What about this recipe makes it so light? Is it the hydration? The amount of yeast? Type of flour? Does anyone have any suggestions about modifying it to use sourdough?


 

sarahsari's picture
sarahsari

I have baked a few loaves of this bread recently and it always comes out tasting great.  However, when I pull it out of the oven it has a beautiful thin crispy crust, but an hour later the crust is soft.  I am letting the loaf cool a little on the pan I baked it in and then leaving it out on the counter on a bread board.  Can anyone tell me why this is happening or give me some suggestions on how to keep the crust crispy?


-sarahsari

roxbakes's picture
roxbakes

Ok, Floyd, I did it!


First of all: WHAT A WONDERFUL SITE!!!! I spent here quite some time, learning so many new things! Thank you so much for such wonderful info: the explanations and pictures are great, very easy to understand. I could have not done it without them.


Now, onto the Daily Bread Adventure! LOL It was quite an experience for me, that I only started baking my own bread for a month or so. I used double the quantities, so I can get more bread from one batch. And here we go:


1. Instead of reading the whole thread, I runed to an online conversion site, that said that 1lb of bread flour = 4.56 cups. WOW! Imagine, that on the autolyse stage, I got a rock hard ball, that I could hardly turn.


2. Now, after 20 min, try to incorporate the preferment! No WAY! I tried to part it and mix some of my rubber ball with the runny preferment in the bread machine. It couldn't do it. I was so dissapointed, ready to throw all the ingredients and start all over again.


3. I have no experience at kneading, and not much of a baking experience either, but decided to try to knead it on my own. After much wrestling with the dough, while my 6, 4, and 2 yr olds. were holding the bowl for me, it started to come to some very sticky, even mixture. It took us a while, though, to incorporate all the hard pieces into the sponge.


4. It was cold today, so the first rise was about 3h. When I pulled the dough to fold it, it had an awesome, stringy texture. I figured that it might come along, after all!


5. Second rise: 1hr.


6. Cut the dough in 4, shaped the loaves, trying to fold undeneath as much as possible, considering the window pane test that I read about here. Hmmm, not bad! Let rise for another hour, glaze it with egg yolk (another insight from your experiments), score nicely with a blade from my husband's utility knife, popped them into a 500F oven, spray some steam, dropped the temp to 475, and Voila:


My first French Loaves! :)



 


 


All 4:



Sliced:


Just want to say THANK YOU! Even with way too much flour it still came out very tasty and chewy. My family was in AWE! Looking forward to try again with the right measures, but without the pictures and your tips I could have not done it.


Keep up the good work!


Roxana

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Those look great!

roxbakes's picture
roxbakes

Just realized that I do have an important question: When trying to double the quantities of a recipe, do you double the preferment quantities, too?! That's what I did on the previous and assumed correct, but now I am not so sure. Thanks!

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I don't think you have to but, yes, I'd be inclined to double it.

em120392's picture
em120392

I wanted to join The Fresh Loaf to comment on this recipe. It was excellent, and really easy. I added about half a cup more flour because it was sticking to the counter. For the second rise, I put it in the refridge for 3 or 4 hours.
I'm pretty new at doughs that require a poolish, but this recipe was really easy and forgiving.


thanks for the recipe!


here is a picture of the bread:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/27944662@N07/4268197242/


dstroy's picture
dstroy

Very nice!

MargaretK's picture
MargaretK

I started this bread last night, and let the poolish sit on the counter all night. I wanted the warm bread in the morning :) I added a little more flour than it called for, like everyone else, and the dough, although wetter than normal, was perfect for just plopping into a loaf pan. I used some egg wash (actually left over scrambled eggs form breakfast :)) and topped it with some sesame seeds. I guess the only difference that I made in the recipe was that I used whole wheat flour, and it was, by far, the best loaf that I have made so far!! It was soft and it did get the height that I haven't been able to get from other breads! DELICIOUS!!

weissonthego's picture
weissonthego

I have been baking bread for a while.  I would peruse this site for ideas but never felt I had to go to the extremes that some of the afficionados do.  When I read the lesson on autolyse something clicked.   We are so concerned with time, consistency and convenience that we have forgotten the original processes that our ancestors used.  I have learned from many years of experimentation that nothing replaces time for making bread.

I tried this recipe and I was instantly converted to autolyse, folding and working with wet doughs.  The results were amazing!  I was concerned lately because my doughs were not rising sufficiently and I tried everything but with time you can solve most problems you encounter with doughs.

I just want everyone to know that you don't need to be so concerned with having the "proper" tools or following recipes to the letter.  Just enjoy the process and experiment.  My measure of success is if someone enjoys eating what I make.  They aren't as concerned with the crust or the size of the air pockets in the bread but how it tastes.  That is the final arbiter of a good loaf of bread. 


Thank you for this recipe; its simple to make and delicious to eat (Even my cat loves to eat it!)

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Thanks for sharing your recipe Floyd. I've been wanting to experiment with some more poolish-based breads.


I was doing some math based on your recipe (I like baker's percentage), and it looks like your poolish is somewhere between 165-175% hydration, and you're adding around 65% water to your dough. Combined with the relatively high proportion of poolish in your recipe (I estimate somewhere  around 85%), and you're looking at an overall hydration over 90%! No wonder why a bunch of people were saying the dough was too slack.


I wonder why it's beneficial to do it this way (really wet recipe, and add more flour via kneading) instead of scaling back the water added to the dough (to be clear, I'm not talking about scaling back the water in the poolish, only water added during kneading).


I took the liberty of approximating your original recipe using baker's percentage:


Bread Flour    100%        453.50g
Water    65.2%        295.68g
Starter 1 (poolish, 175% hydration)    85%    385.48g
Salt    3%        13.61g
Instant Yeast    0.68%        3.08g


Scaling the water back from 65% to 40% would give you an overall hydration between 70-75% (instead of ~90%), and require less flour to be added...


But again, what am I missing here? What's the benefit of kneading in extra flour?

cranbo's picture
cranbo

So I've baked about 5-6 batches of this, with slight mods each time, and I must say I'm very pleased with the results.


If nothing else, I'm a convert to poolish! I love the spongy texture it gives. Great thin leathery crusts on my loaves too, very happy with it. 


So in answer to my own question "what's the benefit of kneading in extra flour", I guess if you prefer to do it all by hand, or start with a wet dough and add "just enough" flour to get to the right consistency, have at it. I suppose it's good practice for getting a feel for the bread.  


For baking noobs like me, I prefer a more accurate approach, and consistent results. Not to mention I use a stand mixer for most of my kneading. I still test my bread by feel at the end (looking for tackiness like a post-t note or slight stickiness).


In any case, I found reducing the hydration at least 10% helps a lot with this, and you still get great bread. 

jerempfer's picture
jerempfer

i read earlier in this blog where people were talking about using the poolish to make baguettes and i just recently did tha tin my artisan bread class and they turned out great! however we were using a much less hydration level then 100 we were doing about 60% hydration.

Thingone's picture
Thingone

This formula has become my go-to for experimentation.  Today, I have used it as the basis for a multigrain dough, with a cornmeal and whole oat flake soaker.  The hydration ratios are kept the same as your basic 'Daily' formula.  Now comes the tricky part - recovering from the retarded fermentation.  I stuck the fully kneaded dough into the fridge while I was at work for about 6hrs.  I'm letting it come to a warmer temp before benching and shaping. 


Mostly, just thanks for this whole site, nurturing this passion for something so basic to every culture.


*edit* The results are very nice, considering that it was 6 grain loaf, plus the bread flour. I was too impatient though, it really could have baked longer.


 

Lord Jezo's picture
Lord Jezo

Does anyone know what may have caused my loaf to totally fail in the middle?


The outside looked perfect with it's brown crust and color.  I cooked it as suggested, max oven temp, which is 550 for me, for 5 minutes then turned it down to 470 for another 15.  It rose just as it was supposed to but once I cut into it the middle of the loaf was a big ball of dough, as if it wasn't ever even put in the oven.


I followed the recipe with the only change being 3.5 cups of flour instead of a pound as I don't have a scale.  I used King Arthur's bread flour with SAF instant yeast.  Had the poolish work over night for 8 hours and with the main dough I mixed by hand and did the French fold method four times over the course of three hours with the final resting for about an hour.


I ended up putting it back in the oven for 20 minutes after I had ruined it by cutting into it.  In the end I had a large loaf of toast, but it was either doing that to salvage something or tossing it all out.


Any suggestions?

Wholewheatgirl's picture
Wholewheatgirl

Hi, all! What a great site! I am new at baking bread and learning a lot by reading all the comments.
My first attempt at making this bread tasted good but was really flat. I probably needed to support the sides with something so that the loaves rise up instead of spreading out. Also I got minimal oven spring. Another issue is when I was folding, the flour from my counter on which I dumped the liquid dough, never dissolved in the dough, so I had patches of just flour when biting into the bread. The crust was amazing though. Also, I had about half white and half whole wheat. I am committed to baking with whole wheat and for my next attempt will try 100% whole wheat. Does anyone know how that affects the recipe? I wonder if I need to autolyse for longer? Or maybe autolyse and then keep mixing by hand for proper gluten development? Could I fold in the bowl, without dumping it on the counter, to avoid the annoying pockets of flour? Please, any comments would be appreciated, especially on how to make good bread with whole wheat. Thanks

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Your dough was spreading because, IMO, the original recipe has slightly too much water. Reduce the amount of water in the final dough. 

Minimal oven spring would probably be a result of overproofing, dough that's too wet, or a combo of both. 

Avoid your flour pockets by being careful with how much flour you dust on your folding surface. If there's too much, brush the excess off gently. You want just enough flour to make it possible to handle the dough, but no more. 

Yes, 100% WW will absolutely behave differently. WW absorbs more water so your dough will be drier, and you will not develop gluten as well, so unless you maintain proper hydration, apply some intensive kneading and some enriching with fats/proteins (milk, butter, oil, etc), you will not likely get soft WW bread. Check txfarmer's post about WW SD bread.

 

bnortonjr's picture
bnortonjr

We re-made this recipe today following the directions to the letter and the result was the best loaf we've ever made :)  The poolish, flour (King Arthur) and water (filtered) had a major impact on the end product success.  A few more practice runs and we will begin to experiment with the recipe.

 

Thanks Floyd for your suggestions

slidething's picture
slidething

So tried this recipe today ~ turned out very good - one to add to notebook of DailyBreads. Bread was "gone" before I could take "pics" LOL.

Crust was nice - not glossy as some photos here but nice just the same - Crumb very fine not airy - going to work on that. Also how much "play" has anyone done with this recipe ~ thinking about adding oatmeal and raisins & a touch o'honey~ But thats for a later bake.

A shout out to FloyD - MimiO & Dolf  nice to be back - was out in Oklahoma for awhile ( ruffin it) now back in Central Pa. AND acess to a computer .

Slide____Out

century's picture
century

I have been experimenting with this recipe.
Last night I made a batch with 40% wholewheat and 45g of flaxseed added to the dough.
Combined with multiple folds and rests, an overnight final rise in the fridge and my combo cooker.

The result was fantastic ! Baked them this morning before work.
Brought a loaf in for sandwhiches and everyone loved it. The crunch of the flax and the addtion of the wholewheat made it stand out.
Im going to try grinding some flax and adding it to the dough next time, in addtion to the whole seeds.

century's picture
century

Man, I love this bread. Always comes out great for me, no matter what changes and addtions I make.
Well done.

 

MrBytchy's picture
MrBytchy

I think your original point is key.  I have now settled on a basic recipe and start all my experiments from there. The basic recipe is my control and I can easily see the effect of any changes I make.  Well done for making this really important point.

Bytchy

BTW. Here is my standard if you are interested.

http://misterbytchy.hubpages.com/hub/Simple-white-bread-made-by-hand-using-a-Bigga

R.Acosta's picture
R.Acosta

and I think this will become our new weekly loaf! I loved the texture and airy crumb of this bread, and it's easy on the wallet without any milk or butter in it.  I might experiment with baking it with steam next time, but not sure what temp I should go with to bake it at in that case.  In any case, thanks for a wonderful recipe! So delicious!

-Rachel

weissonthego's picture
weissonthego

I always use steam and have found that the original temps are just fine.  I have been making this bread for almost 2 years now.  My wife and I travel all over the US and this bread is our staple.  I add a 1/2  cup of oatmeal (which I substitute for 1/2 cup of flour).  You may have to add a little flour if the dough is too wet.  I agree it is a great recipe!

R.Acosta's picture
R.Acosta

I really love this bread, but I was wondering if there was anyway to make it using sourdough?

thechort's picture
thechort

Just use starter that you fed 6-12 hours ago instead of the poolish.  No extra yeast should be necessary if you have a nice vigorous starter.

R.Acosta's picture
R.Acosta

Should it be just as much starter as there is poolish?

century's picture
century

Any suggestions? I have good results, but the crust softens quickly after being pulled from the oven.

bob1483's picture
bob1483

I made this bread today 10/19/12,  The dough  was VERY liquid, I ended up adding more flour to it, and even added more flour after the first rising.

Even after adding additional flour this loaf turned out GREAT and now will be my go to white bread.

Thanks for posting this.

Bob1483

salma's picture
salma

Crumb shot

 

I have now made this three times and have replaced 4 oz of bread flour with either cornmeal or semolina and both times had great results.  I also like to add a Tbsp of honey and some flax and sesame seeds.  Just started a poolish last nite and used a 1/4 c whole wheat flour in it.  This morning i added my usual plus replaced with 3 oz w/w flour,  I think i always have to add more flour in the end to be able to shape it somewhat.  The result is superb, good crust and even open crumb.

oops! I cannot seem to rotate the pictures.

salma

pantone_000's picture
pantone_000

Naive question: Is a cloche necessary if i am going to bake in a brick oven?