The Fresh Loaf

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50% Rye

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Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

50% Rye

Since my Pure Rye, 1939 post, I had wanted to do light rye.  In the past, I have done a few (this, this and this most recent one).  The challenge of rye for me is the stickiness, hard to handle, and hard to score.  In this post is a pain au levain with 50% rye.  I solved the problems with very minimal handling of the dough and always with a light dusting of flour, and most importantly, I made sure the surface was very dry before I scored.   Also, to solve the browning issue that I sometimes encounter with the crust, I turned on my oven full blast for the whole time of baking (ie, 250 ºC).  I had to rotate the dough several times during baking, so not one spot got too much heat for too long in one go... what we do for our dough....


This was a 1 kg dough.  Main points of my formula were:



  1. Stiff starter was 15% of final dough flour, which was 50% stoneground organic rye flour and 50% organic plain flour. 

  2. My starter was fed the same flour combination as the final dough.

  3. Overall hydration was 80% (without counting molasses, which was another 8%).

  4. In addition to one teaspoon each of caraways, fennels and coriander powders, I had zest of one large navel orange. 

  5. (The orange juice was part of the 80% hydration.)


         


               


                                                     


               


 


I think I finally found the light rye formula that I like.


 


                                                    


                


 


The crumb would have been more open if I had given my dough longer bulk ferment time.  Rather than the usual 3 hours bulk at my room temperature of 26 ºC, this dough should have had much longer bulk time, say 5 - 6 hours or even overnight at room temperature, as the starter was quite low in terms of the final dough flour.   


 


                                


 


You could see the orange zest peeping out in the crumb shot above (almost in the centre).  Like the herbs, orange can be a dominating flavour.  Any more than one orange zest would have been too much.   I am very happy and excited with the way this bread has turned out.  The excitement I have got from this bread reminds me of the very first sourdough I posted here at The Fresh Loaf last June.


 


Shiao-Ping

Comments

SourFlour's picture
SourFlour

Your loaf looks delicious as always. I've got a few questions:


1. How much did your dough grow during bulk fermentation? You said you would have rather had it ferment longer. Recently I've been letting my dough grow anywhere from 1.5X to 2X in bulk.


2. How were you feeding your starter before you used it in the dough?


I look forward to trying something like this.  I just started using rye flour again, and am excited to figure out how to work with it.


Thanks,
Danny Paz Gabriner
Sour Flour

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Thanks for your comment.  I changed my mind about longer ferment.  What I had done was actually right because immediately after my post, I did another one with longer ferment - it rose 3 or maybe even 3.5 times after bulk, and the oven spring absolutely suffered!!  What I meant was, it didn't even regain the 3 times volume that it achieved at bulk.   So, if you've been letting your dough rise 1.5 to 2 times, that should be right, and that was about the rise I had with the loaf in this post.


With regard to your second question, what I normally do, depending on how long I last baked (ie, how long the starter culture had been in the fridge), I would refresh my starter culture twice, and each time discarding all but a small portion.  Once this is done, then commence with the formula from where the starter elaboration procedure is (eg, one stage build, or 3 stage build, etc).   In practice, we home bakers don't really go through that trouble every time (or maybe people do, but I don't).  The starter that I used for my 50% Rye in this post had one refreshment out of the refrigerator and then just one stage build.  A simple one.


Shiao-Ping

ehanner's picture
ehanner

A very bold bake Shiao-Ping, very nice. I think it was proofed just right. The crumb is perfect for me. Do I understand some of the liquid is the orange juice?


Do you get that orange fruit aroma nicely? What an interesting idea.


Eric

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

The orange flavour was there, quite distinct but not overpowering.  The orange flavour was purely from the zest, not the juice; orange juice flavour gets lost in rye flour and carraways seeds and all those herbs.   (You'd be better off drink the orange juice!)

kutlermd's picture
kutlermd

The bread looks great.  I have found rye breads difficult to work with and struggled to get an open crumb.  Great work!  The spice mixture is very intriguing.  I hope you will post the complete recipe some day.  Best wishes,  

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Thank you for the compliments.  My starter was 80 grams and that was 15% of flour, so, flour was 533 grams (split 50/50 rye flour and bread flour).  You get 533 by dividing 80 by 0.15. 


Then, to get the 80% hydration, you take 533 and times 0.80 = 426 grams of water (including orange juice in this case).  If you want to be more exact there was flour and water in the starter.   My stiff starter was 65% hydration which meant there were 48 flour and 32 water (you take 80 grams and divide that with 1.65, 1 being the flour and .65 being the water).  So, in total there were 48 + 533 =  581 flour....   I didn't bother with the more detailed calculation because this was just a small bake.


Shiao-Ping

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

That loaf looks the next one on my list.  I hope it's a musical as yours. 


Mini

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I have a Swedish rye that I've made that has orange zest and anise. I love the flavor that the orange lends to the rye. Your crumb looks just fine to me.


Betty

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

We've been toasting it for the last three mornings (and of course my son had to pile peanut paste on his), and it was really lovely.

codruta's picture
codruta

shiao-ping, I'm making a similar loaf right now. If you see my question in time, please tell me, how long was the first fermentation, and the second one (after shaping). During the first fermenation did you do some S-F, or folds in the bowl?

thank you

Codruta, from Water.Flour.Salt.

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Hi Codruta, in memory my first fermentation was around 3  hours at 25 degree C with several folds in the bowl and second fermentation 1 hour in room temperature and in the fridge overnight.

codruta's picture
codruta

hi shiao ping, thanx for the reply. Unfortunately, I read it too late (I think the TFL server was down last night, I couldn't open the page). I let it ferment at room temperature (25C) with 3S-F for 2,5 hours, than shape, second fermentation 1h:30min at room temperature, and 1h in the fridge. I suspect it was underproofed, cause the crumb is denser than yours, and the slashes broke when baking. :(

I have to give it another try, which makes me happy.

Codruta, from Apa.Faina.Sare

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Hi Codruta, sorry for the very late reply.  Yes, it does sound like your bread was underproved, but I am sure it was delicious just the same.  I can't always get right amount of proving /fermentation myself; and I have bad memory - if I have done it right one time, it doesn't guarantee that the next time I will get it right again.    Shiao-Ping

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

You have been rather quiet on the posting Codruta.  We need some of your super inspiring bakes!

John

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Hi Shiao-Ping.

I very very much like the look and sound of this rye.  Could I bother you for the formula?  I have been searching for a good 50% rye formula for some time now.

Great job!

John

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Hi John, I will work out the formula for you as soon as I can.  I am on the road right now. Thanks for your comment. Shiao-Ping

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Absolutely no rush and thank you!

John

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Following is my recipe for Pain au Levain with 50% Rye:

 80 g stiff starter (24 g organic rye flour , 24 g organic plain flour, 32 g water);  265 g stoneground organic rye flour;  265 g organic plain flour;  430 g water (including juice from one navel orange, see below);  45 g molasses;  1 tsp caraways powder (or the seeds instead if you wish);  1 tsp fennels powder;  1 tsp coriander powder;  Zest of one large navel orange. This recipe is for one kg dough and the overall hydration of this dough is 80% (not taking into account of the molasses).  Follow a general Pain au Levain method.  My post says I did a 3 hour bulk fermentation at room temp of 26 degree C but longer would have been better (as the high percentage of molasses had slowed down the fermentation process). Also, I baked at 250 degree C for more browning of the crust. But at that high temperature, you will have to rotate the dough in the oven several times. I think 225 - 230 degree is plenty hot enough.   Hope this helps.  Shiao-Ping
 
Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thank you so much for this formula. I will try it out soon and post my results.

Happy baking Shiao-Ping.

John