The Fresh Loaf

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Hokkaido Milk Bread with Tangzhong: my first attempt

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bruneski's picture
bruneski

Hokkaido Milk Bread with Tangzhong: my first attempt

Hi, my friends from TFL!

This weekend I decided to "try my hands" at the Hokkaido Milk Bread with Tangzhong.

I attempted to follow Floyd's instructions (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/32997/hokkaido-milk-bread-tangzhong), but using the amounts listed by JDYangachi (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/33900/fluffy-milk-bread), because this would yield a loaf just the size I wanted (700-800 g).

I ended up with a very nice-looking 750-g loaf, with a nice aroma, very tasty and displaying a very soft crumb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, the crumb I got was not even close to the ones produced by Floyd and by YDYangachi. Clearly, neither as silky nor as fluffy as the ones they produced.


Floyd's Hokkaido Milk Bread from http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/32997/hokkaido-milk-bread-tangzhong


YDYangachi's Fluffy Milk Bread from http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/33900/fluffy-milk-bread

I strictly followed YDYangachi's recipe, giving the tangzhong a 12-hour rest in the fridge. My tangzhong was a little more pudding-like than Floyd's (as compared to the one he documented in his post, which seemed to be a little drier than mine).

I made the final dough using my bread machine with a 16-minute Dough cycle. The dough needed no adjustments and ended up very silky and smooth, although slightly sticky. I placed it on a slightly floured board and shaped it with just a few moves. Next, I placed the shaped loaf into a metal bread pan (similar in shape and size to Floyd`s) lined with parchment paper, loosely covered the pan and let the dough rest for 30 minutes. Next, I glazed the dough with milk, covered it again and gave it another 30-minute rest period. The result was a more-than-doubled dough, that almost reached the rim of the pan. I baked the loaf in a preheated (350 degees F) conventional oven for 40 minutes. I got something between 50% and 75% (measured by the loaf's height) oven spring.

After the loaf cooled, I cut the first two slices and tried it. Very tasty and very soft, as mentioned above. But, the crumb didn't look at all similar to Floyd's and YDYangachi's. Clearly not as fluffy.

After a while, I realized that I had missed one full phase of Floyd's directions: he gave the final dough an initial 60-minute rising period, in which his dough doubled. Only after this first rising period, did he divide the dough, shape the loaves, place them in glass pans, give them a 30-minute rise, glaze them with milk, give them an additional 15-to-30-minute rise and bake them at 350 degees F for 40 minutes.

Could this initial phase I completely missed and/or the differences between the types of pans used (glass vs metal lined with parchment paper) be the reason for the big difference in fluffiness? Could my tangzhong have been softer (undercooked) than it should (sorry, did not take a picture of it).  Could something else I haven`t pinpointed be the culprit?

Thanks for any tips. Take care. Bruneski.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

missing the first rise is a likely culprit for the crumb not being Cotton candy shreddable.  Still, a very nice bread anyway. 

Happy baking

bruneski's picture
bruneski

... won`t forget it next time I make this bread, my dear dabrownman!

Thanks for the incentive!

Btw, did the use of a metal bread pan lined with parchment paper change anything?

Was the parchment lining necessary at all? The dough did slightly stick to the parchment paper, even though it was very easy to peel off.

Have a great week! Take care. Bruneski. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

you can spray the pans with oil like any other bread and skip the parchment.  Some folks spray and dust with flour or bran.   

bruneski's picture
bruneski

... you suggest! Thanks a lot.

Take care. Bruneski.

JDYangachi's picture
JDYangachi

dabrownman is probably right about missing the first rise.  I also think that maybe you don't need to mix the dough for very long, but I am only speaking about what has worked for me.

I deliberately called mine "Fluffy Milk Bread" as opposed to "Hokkaido Milk Bread" because my formula is a little bit different.  A lot of the recipes I've seen for HMB have used cream, milk powder, or both.  I'm sure those other recipes produce delicious loaves, but I wanted something simpler.  If you'd like to try again, here are some slightly more detailed steps that I followed:

1. prepare the tangzhong

I took the lazy man's approach to this. I whisked together 20g of flour with 100mL of milk and microwaved it for 45 seconds (at 1000W).  The tangzhong had a pudding-like consistency. I didn't refrigerate the tangzhong and pretty much used it right away.  I didn't measure the temperature of the tangzhong, but it cooled sufficiently by the time I incorporated it into the final dough. 

2. mix the dough, minus the butter and salt, and autolyse

i mixed the dough by whisking the egg, milk, sugar, and some of the flour.  Then I swiched to a wooden spoon and added the rest of the flour and the instant yeast.  I incorporated the tangzhong and let the dough rest for 30 minutes.  I realize this is not a  true autolyse since the yeast is already in there, but whatever.  Total mixing time was probably about 5 minutes.  I'd like to think that this "autolyse" period makes up for the fact that I'm not mixing/kneading the heck out ot the dough.  The dough is certainly very silky and smooth by this method, and I think there is enough gluten development. 

3. add in the butter and salt; first rise

This is about the only "kneading" that I performed. While incorporating the softened butter, I sort of folded the dough over itself from the bottom and sort of smeared the butter around with a spatula.   I covered the dough and let it rise for about 1 hour.

4. degas and shape; second rise

After the dough had roughly doubled, I dumped it out of the bowl onto a floured surface, gently patted it out, portioned, and formed it.  I used roughly 2 TBSP of bench flour for this.  I patted out 3 x 200g balls of dough into ovals and used the "business letter" method of folding down the top 1/3 and sealing, then folding up the bottom 1/3 and sealing.  For each portion I patted out again to an elongated oval and rolled up tightly then placed in a loaf pan for the second rise, which was about 1 hour again.

5. bake

I baked for 30 minutes in a preheated 325F oven.  This second batch was about 50% taller and was fluffier than the first.  I attribute this mostly to a warmer kitchen leading to a better second rise.

I've updated my original post with additional photos. Here is one:

bruneski's picture
bruneski

... my dear JDYangachi, the bread I made, based on your recipe and Floyd`s instructions, tastes, feels and looks great!!!!

It just doesn`t have the extraordinary fluffiness (cotton-candy-like, in dabrownman`s words!) yours and Floyd`s exhibited! Just this!

Thanks for the time you took to write the above detailed instructions! Very nice of you!

I`ll carefully and thoroughly study them for my next attempt!!!

Have a great week. Take care. Bruneski.

lazybaker's picture
lazybaker

If you want that fluffy look, then you have to divide the dough into balls and stick them into the loaf pan. After they're baked and cooled, you pull apart the area where the balls of bread are sticking to each other. Imagine separating the balls of bread apart from one another.

That's how Floyd and JDY got their fluffy look. If you look at their bread, they have balls of dough into one loaf of pan, whereas yours is one loaf. And you sliced your bread, so that's why it looks different.

I hope my explanation is easy to understand. LOL

bruneski's picture
bruneski

... very clear and easy to understand! Thanks.

But, I wonder ... if I got hold of either of their breads an sliced one of the adjoining balls right down its middle (of the chosen ball), would the crumb look like the one from my loaf? Or would it look somewhat as fluffy as the parts shown in the pictures they posted (and I copied above).

Thanks a lot. Have a great week! Bruneski.

lazybaker's picture
lazybaker

When I sliced my bread, it came out looking like yours. 

Next time, just divide the dough into balls and put them in a loaf pan. It sounds crazy, but it really is fun pulling apart the bread and seeing the fluffy look.

bruneski's picture
bruneski

Next time, I'll shape the bread exactly the way you suggested!

Take care. Bruneski.

JDYangachi's picture
JDYangachi

I'll try to remember to take some photos the next time I bake this.

JDYangachi's picture
JDYangachi