The Fresh Loaf

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The liquids used in sponges...

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Cob's picture
Cob

The liquids used in sponges...

can be just about anything right? I've only ever used water, milk, and eggs, and wonder if anything disastrous will happen if I use the vegetable puree below.

I've in mind to make a 'sweet' red pepper bread, using the puree in a flying sponge (about 6hrs). (I'm not sure I would risk making a 18hr sponge first time.) How do vegetable liquids ferment? They're not as sweet as juice, so I'm undecided.

I've decided to do it like this over roasting/charring the peppers first and adding them at the dough stage since I want the flavour to permeate the loaf, but I will probably dice off some more peppers and sautee them to add later in the final dough.

Any tips would be great! :)

 

 

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Some Examples would be kimchi, vodka, pickles, cassava,... peppers especially ferment well.

But water is a liquid in a sponge and doesn't ferment by itself without anything in it.  It is the carbohydrates added to the sponge that ferment...  grain flour, veggie, fruit, various sugars or whatever    If your ingredient contains carbohydrates, it will ferment.   It will ferment in a sponge or in the dough.  Be prepared for pink or orange colored bread.

Sweet red pepper, dried and powdered, is also known as paprika.  Careful if you saute paprika, it burns easily.  

Um, What is a flying sponge?  Is that a sourdough?

It sounds so exciting and with my imagination I see circus sponges on trapezes under the Big Top.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

red pepper, blackened skins removed and onions in bread.  I put them in during the first set of 3 sets of S&F's.  They will flavor the bread ompletely without changinf the color of the dough too much.

Cob's picture
Cob

Well, I made my (fresh) red pepper bread yesterday. I've yet to make a more uninteresting bread, how disappointing!

I decided to leave using the pureed pepper in a sponge (btw, a flying sponge is just a short-time - 2-3 hrs perhaps - yeasted sponge that uses full yeast, set to fly into space is how I always imagine it, pushed to max and collapses, before a normal dough is made, i.e its second and final feeding) and made a plain 9hr sponge, and kneaded in 2 chargrilled peppers, skins removed at the dough stage. It looked fab. It tasted flat (so much for being judicious with the salt!). The pepper, carmelised on the crust was a dream, the peppers in the crumb were just that, blobs of moist pepper. Not very lip-smackingly interesting. Maybe I should have used some feta/parmasan in the dough. Added bits of olives? Who knows, but that would be one hell of an expensive daily loaf....

In retropsect, pureeing peppers for greater flavour seems silly. At the end of the day, the flavour would be intense enough to flavour a loaf. It's a difficult one. And a waste of my damned peppers!

dabrownman, I care not if the loaf is changed in colour too much. I know it freaks some peeps out, but somethng stained pinkish/reddish is gorgeous. I did add a tsp of two of pimenton dulce (that Spanish paprika) to the flour and still it was not enough to change the colour. I love the idea of using beetroot to stain bread, lately I'm totally into 'decorating' bread, how embarassing! Your shorthand is lost on the newbie, what is S&F?

MiniOven, you add kimchi and vodka and things to a sponge? :O When you say water cannot ferment flour alone, surely you're mistaken?! What about wil starters. There's enough wild bacteria and (wild) yeast in unrefined, organic flours to ferment happily without any additional 'food'.

Any other contributions would be great. I think no one has answered becuase it's a dumb question.

I question why I never see anything more than water for sponges. I think I'm being stupid. It must be really obvious, like, fermenting apple juice would not turn to cider, but something similar/approaching those intitial stages. I know nothing about booze. Someone please correct me!

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

the problem.  By roasting or grilling the red pepper and onion gets rid of the pepper skin and excess water while bringing out their more intense flavors.  By leaving them in smallish dice the flavors really come through.  Treat beets the same way,  S& F's are stretch and folds used to develop gluten without kneading.  There are lots of videos on YouTube and maybe one on this site too.

Here is my beet Valentime's Day Bun post

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Did you want to ferment the vegetable juice and then use it to raise the bread?

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6012/baking-natural-wild-yeast-water-not-sourdough

Another option might be to thinly slice the peppers and dry them, cut finer and blend them into the dough.  Often with onions and peppers, a better flavour result is achieved by drying it first.  That eliminates mushy chunky bits in the finished baked crumb.  Do remember to add enough salt above what is used for the flour.  Many vegetables will need a little.  More for potatoes, creamed-corn, squash and legumes.  

It may also be interesting to divide the dough into two sections and flavor one with peppers and the other not.  Let them bulk rise separately and then shape the flavored one, roll or cover it with thin pepper rings and then wrap it with the plain dough, maybe add a little grated cheese between layers as glue, and score through the outside layer to expose the inside one.  Or marble them together or twist them.  You are only limited by your own imagination.

Nothing will taste stronger than the pepper itself.  Adding pepper to dough dilutes the intense pepper flavour.  What comes out in the bread will be hints of pepper not concentrated pepper.   Perhaps adding some grated lemon peel or fresh chopped herbs to the pepper might be nice.   It depends on your taste buds.  Mix the flavours you like.   

As with sushi, the topping on the bread may be the "oh wow!" you're looking for.  Cut the bread, butter or cheese spread it and place your skinned grilled red bell pepper right across the top, the blanket on the bread so to speak,  then pop it into your mouth.  

Mini

Cob's picture
Cob

Thanks for the link, that'll be my morning coffee reading!

Ah I love all your thoughs. As for S&F's, of course, I know what you mean. I often incorporate added ingredients at shaping stage but mainly for flatbreads, but wanted to override this with a plain pepper flavoured dough - like I would usually with an onion bread - that would rise tall in or out of a tin.

It does seem to make a difference adding ingredients at shaping stage. Layering them thick, leavening them to pocket in certain areas of the baked finished loaf. With or without added ingredients like olives, garlic or strong cheese.

As for water content of veg, it's true they'll dilute flavour. In retrospect, I should have seasoned them so that they'd pop in my mouth. Charring them does not seem to be the best way of handling peppers, unless of course, they're added at shaping stage. NOR does diluting their flavour as a liquid, fortuitously, the graceful hand of a god stopped me beforehand! Next time, I will fine dice and saute them with lots of herbs, spice and aromatics, and plenty of salt. Nothing like unseasoned bread.

Actually, I see Dan Lepard sometimes leaves the blackened skin on in one of his recipes (Peanut Butter Chilli bread). The black bits of any BBQ always tastes glorious but I'm undecided if dough can handle it.

Though, often all these 'fancy' breads go beyond good taste. Mini Oven you're right, next time, I'll just make some makeshift bruschetta with some staling bread lying about and top it with some yummy, sauteed peppers. Voila! I think I was craving one my pizzas, minus the washing up. :)

Only onions ever seem a worthwhile addition to bread.

Dabrowman, I can't see the link. I'll search for it.