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Rye - To Autolyse or Not To Autolyse

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Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Rye - To Autolyse or Not To Autolyse

I am planning to bake a bread similar to Hamelman's Whole Rye & Whole Wheat Bread.  I noticed in many of his rye bread formulas, he does not list an autoylse in the formula directions.

Is an autoylse step typically not done for rye breads?  Am I correct in not doing an autolyse in that particular formula (for those who happen to be familiar with it....ahem-Dave-ahem..)?

I have read a few past posts regarding this same question.  Most answers seem to point in the direction that yes, you should autolyse.  But why would Hamelman exclude this step in some of his rye formulas and then not in others?  Perhaps because he expects the reader to be using a powerful mixing machine to develop the gluten?

John

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

and autolyse one of the for 8 hours in the fridge and see which one you like better,  I'm guessing the autolyse loaf will win hands down.

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

I am hoping to not play practice with these loaves and just HOPEFULLY get it right the first time.  I kind of promised my father a rye loaf for Canada Day!

Thanks for the suggestion though.  I will do autolyse....unless I get some definite NO's from any other members.  Then I will be thoroughly confused.

Hope you are handling the 48 degree celcius weather down there!  Geeze!

John

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

whole rye you grind yourself or are you going to use rye with the bran removed?  How much rye are you putting in the dough at what hydration?  Sll of these things make a difference in length of autolyse but you don't autolyse rye for 8 hours like WW anyway but 2 hours on the counter or 4 hours in the fridge is no problem and will help the bread. 

It has been hot and humid here.  118 F is still 4 degrees less than the record for Phoenix though :-)  When ilived in Saudi Arabia they had a law that stated if it hit 50 C everyone had to go home from work.  It will be 130 F in Death Valley today - thus the name!

I still say make two loaves one each wasy and keep one for yourself.  You deserve a loaf on Canada Day Too!  Your recipe may not notice an autolyse,

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Dabrowny, I am still horrible at baker %.  The formula is:

Bread flour   50%

Whole Rye   25%

Whole Wheat    25%

Water              68%

Salt                1.8%

Yeast            1.25%

It has been humid here as well, which is uncommon.  Too much rain followed up by a heat wave.  It has been one of the most challenging weeks for work. Haven't had a day off in 2 weeks, so I am looking forward to Canada Day to veg with a cold one and hopefully a nice slice or two of this loaf.

What do you do with yourself on such hot days as this??

John

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

touch this recipe until it had at least 75% hydration.  68% is too low.  The bread would be better as a SD too with 10% of the total weight as levain,with an added biga  - a pinch of yeast made into a 75% biga 6 hours before the mix with 37.5 g of water and 50 g of white flour.as levain.  That way you get better flavor,  a moist open crumb and lots of lift.  That would be a nice Canada day bread!  Just my opinion and not stepping on Hamelman's Master toes.

The reason God created gin and limoncello is for days like these.  Gin and tonic with a lime wedge squeezed or limoncello with diet squirt.  I have been known to put a splash of limocello into a gin and tonic without the lime as well.  Days like this make me feel better now that I am retired and not having to go outside much at all.  Lucy pant's in an air conditioned house on these days.  She drools a little too but wouldn't that to get spread around much :-)

Happy Whole Rye and WW baking for Canada Day

MisterTT's picture
MisterTT

Since I don't have Hamelman's book, I'd like to clarify one point - you will autolyse the wheat flour, right? If that is the case, then go for it - the bread should definitely improve. However soaking rye flour in water could yield either no discernable effect or a harmful one - the enzymes running rampant without any acidicity from a starter to keep them in check.

That's just my two cents, though.

I also notice that a lot of mixed wheat/rye bread formulas call for a rye starter, which is traditionally highly hydrated, so there's not a lot of water left over to do the autolyse with wheat. I made PiP's Borodinsky ( http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/26456/further-abroad-borodinsky-rye-sweet-rye-crispbreads ) a couple of times using the autolyse step, but dropped it in subsequent bakes and did not notice any change at all. It's a pretty high rye bread however, so it might different.

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thanks for the feedback.  I am planning to autolyse only the wheat flours in the final build, for about 30 minutes, then add the rye sour and salt.

I think I am confident enough now that this would be a good idea.

Thanks again!

John

varda's picture
varda

Hi John,   Thought I'd pipe in.   In Mr H's rye class we did not do any autolyse steps for any of the four rye loaves.   All the rye comes from the sour and soaker so are in the wet  for a long time and presumably didn't need any further hydration.   For the 80% rye, the white flour is added and only a 30 minutes BF, no autolyse.  These breads were all exceptional - particularly coming out of his kitchen.   Can't imagine that an autolyse step would make a difference.  -Varda

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Hi Varda.  Your pipe ins are always welcome.  Thank you for the info.  You are so fortunate to have been at one of his classes.  Jealous.

Today is bake day so what I did was autolyse only the wheat flours for 30 mins.  Then added the rye sour, yeast, and salt.

John

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Lookin forward to your results.  Seems low hydration for 50% whole grain no?  You must be busy baking.

May the dough lead you

Josh

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Hi Josh.

It's a Hamelman formula, so I don't question the master.  Although, I have heard his book has many mistakes in the formulas.

I finished the bakes and they turned out nicely, at least on the exterior.  I have yet to slice them up tomorrow to check out the crumb and flavour.

Will post.

John

golgi70's picture
golgi70

For sure.  don't mess with it until you need too.  Just seemded low.  Musta been easy dough to work with

 

josh

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Golgi.  Final results here http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/33960/whole-rye-whole-wheat-loaf

I agree with you, could use a bit more hydration, but overall easy to handle and came out tasty.  For info, I did autolyse the wheat flours for 30 mins prior to adding the rye sour.

John

golgi70's picture
golgi70

It looks great.  I don't think I'd change anything from the looks of it. 

Nice bake

Josh