The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Flour Type 65 in the UK

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dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Flour Type 65 in the UK

Hi guys,

I'm trying to make a traditional portuguese bread recipe and I need Flour Type 65.

I'm currently living in the UK and the flour packages don't mention the flour type. Can someone point me in the right direction on what mainstream (found in Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda, etc.) flours are Type 65?

Many thanks in advance!

Dinis

 

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Dinis,

Here in the UK, manufacturers and retailers do not use the system of measuring the ash content of the flour.   In the example you are using here the 65 means a residual of 0.65% of a sample of that flour remains after a standard incineration test.

So it is a measure of the mineral content of the flour.   More commonly in the UK we refer to a % of extraction, for example wholewheat flour would be 100%, and white flour might be around 72% extraction.   So it a measure of how much of the original grain remains once it has been milled to flour.

In the most simple terms, you would look to buy a flour labelled as "Strong White", or as "White Bread Flour"

Best wishes

Andy

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Hi Andy,

many thanks for your swift reply!

I have at home Neill's Golden Fleece Plain Flour (http://www.neillsflour.co.uk/flour.html 2nd from the top). The information on the website is the same on the packaging.

Ingredients: Wheat Flour, Raising Agents (E450(i)).

Typical nutritional values. 100g Provides:

Energy 1477kJ, 347kcals, Protein 9.5g, Carbohydrate of which sugars 72.1g 1.5g, Fat of which saturates 1.3g 0.3g, Fibre 3.1g and Sodium 0.2g.

And I can't find any other information on the packet or the website. Where is the % of extraction on flour packets?

Many thanks once again,

Dinis

MisterTT's picture
MisterTT

Don't know about extraction rate, but a protein amount of 9.5 g means that the flour is probably a bit too weak to make bread with.

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

I forgot to thank you for shedding light on how flour is measured in the UK. I've always been used to the French types and now I was feeling lost. Many many thanks once again!

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Dinis,

Mister TT is right, the plain flour is too weak.   The strong flour at the bottom of the list is more appropriate, although that is really too strong.

Quite why a "Plain" flour includes Pyrophosphate [e450; Raising Agent] is utterly beyond me.   A Plain flour, by definition, does not contain raising agents.

I strongly recommend you use an alternative flour source.

Have you come across Carrs Breadmaker Flour?   It's available in Sainsburys.   That would be my choice.   Unless you can find Strong White flour by W. H. Marriage & Sons.   I use their Organic Strong White as my everyday white bread flour.   Both these flour have protein around 11.7%, and good quality gluten potential is guaranteed.

Best wishes

Andy

ps. Are you based in Northern Ireland?

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Hi Andy, I'm definitely getting Carrs Breadmaker Flour this evening and start preparing for the weekend. Many thanks for your thorough and clear explanation!

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Hi Andy,

I'm based in London :-) Whereabouts are you?

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Dinis,

I'm near Alnwick, in Northumberland.   I asked if you were in Northern Ireland as that is where the flour is produced which you made reference to.

You should be able to find lots of good flour in London.   Marriage's are based in Essex.   Shipton Mill in Glos. have a good website and excellent mail order service.   You can buy Bacheldre flour through Amazon.   Both are great artisan flour millers

Take care

Andy

Fatmat's picture
Fatmat

Hi Dinis, This might help http://www.wessexmill.co.uk/recipe/flourguide.html 

I think that a British flour with 11/12% protein on label would be suitable, but I'm new to all this so I may be talking nonsesne!!

Mat

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Hi Mat, thanks for the suggestion. I have already contacted them before coming into the forum. They are really nice! But also very business oriented :-)

Maluz's picture
Maluz

Maybe you would like to look at this website : http://www.wessexmill.co.uk/recipe/flourguide.html

Sorry, did not read the posting before mine.

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Hi All,

many many thanks for your support. I will try to bake some traditional portuguese bread with Carrs Breadmaker Flour this weekend and let you know how it goes. Again, you're all awesome! Thank you so much for your guidance!

Thanks,

Dinis

grandmamac's picture
grandmamac

Hi Dinis

I am very enthusiastic about the Carrs flour. I've tried quite a few different flours while making white bread. A recent stoneground purchase was disastrous! When I was looking for a good flour I could buy locally, I contacted Carrs about additives but the flour only has the legally required ones. I know it's a roller mill but it's very reliable/

I haven't the space to store much flour but I'm told Shipton Mill no. 4 is a good one if you want to try mail order.

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Hi, I did buy Carrs in the end and the end result was good!

sarakaun's picture
sarakaun

Have you tried Shipton Mill? From what I've seen, they seem to be the UK's version of King Arthur as they seem to be very popular among artisan breadmakers.

Apparently, Waitrose Leckford Estate Strong White Bread Flour is recommended by Raymond Blanc.

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Many thanks for the suggestion. Is it available in mainstream supermarkets?

sandydog's picture
sandydog

Hi Dinis,

Ananda's (Andy) original advice was good - ASDA, TESCO et al sell perfectly good bread flour on your high street - I bake a lot with Allinsons bread flours and they are just fine for the home baker.

Brian.

 

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Hi Brian, many thanks for the suggestion. Next weekend I'll give it a go!

Fatmat's picture
Fatmat

I'm baking so much now that I have started buying in bulk from Bacheldre Mill. You can get their strong organic white for as little as £0.87/kg if you buy in bulk. They also have a large range of different flours.

I'm only using making white breads at the moment because they are giving me enough to think about, but I am very happy with the results from their flour so far. 

Mat

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Hi Mat, thank you for the suggestion. I think buying bulk would be a bit too much for me. 2 breads are more than enough for a whole week at our house. Are they in mainstream supermarkets?

Fatmat's picture
Fatmat

I have seen their flours in Waitrose, although at a premium price in smaller quantities. 

As to buying in bulk... I seem to have a bread baking problem at the moment - I may need therapy. We need 2 loaves a week, but I seem to have accidentally baked 7. The neighbours are doing well though!!

dquelhas's picture
dquelhas

Hi guys, here's a picture of the bread made out of your invaluable advice. It tasted just like it should, although it didn't rise as much as I expected. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BM5zUBxCQAApv3m.jpg:large

Cheers, Dinis

JenniB's picture
JenniB

MIght have been because of the (big!) difference in climate between Portugal and UK. Humidity, temperature and altitude all play a role. As I've moved around, I've found I have to experiment with the amount of water, flour, sugar and yeast I add in order to adjust for those things.

Cob's picture
Cob

Hello,

 

I'm a bit late on this post, but heartily concur, Carr's is my cupboard staple, shame it is roller milled, but we can't always win.

As for extraction rate on packets, you will not find one. By law, brown is 80-85%, WM is just that, 100% of the wheat berry with nothing removed (but bear in mind, processed WM has been separated into its component parts and has most of the parts reblended to WM status) and white, is, erm, white, about 72% endosperm matter.

I think, someone correct me, some processed WM flours are degerminated, so they remian stable in the cupboard longer. Avoid these, wheatgerm contributes most, if not the bran, to thef lavour of wheat flour.

I disagree, supermarket flours (except Sainsbury, ironically made my Carr's) are a waste of money. Only Sainsbury's stroneground WM flour is excellent value for money, the taste of the WM really comes through.

As for Shipton Mill, their flour is very, very good. If only I coud affrod to have my flour delivered monthly.

 

I love the wonky looking loaf, we all have them. In fact, they can be my favourite!

Cob's picture
Cob

Ah, I forgot to say, you need to create proper tension in a freestanding loaf, provided it was not a wet one proved in a banneton/bowl, for it to gain max potential volume.