The Fresh Loaf

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SD and YW Emperor Franz Joseph Buns with Same Dough Challah

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dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

SD and YW Emperor Franz Joseph Buns with Same Dough Challah

I found a WW levain lurking in the back of the fridge.  It had been there for at least a week and maybe two.  It was a 100% hydration one since the hooch had separated out and was lying on top.  We poured off the liquid and fed it twice with multigrain flour and water on 4 hour intervals and it doubled in 2 hours after the last feeding.  So what to do with it?

  

WW Sourdough                                                                       White Yeast Water - love those toadie specks

We had our monthly hamburger night coming up and were without the required buns again.  After doing our normal whole grains in the SD levain we used AP flour for the rest of the mix.  After a 2 hour autolyse using milk, we mixed the levain with the wet flours.  To enriched the dough we added butter, egg and honey.

  

Since we have no idea what the pedigree is for the 10% protein, AP flour in the Winco bins, we added some VWG to ensure decent gluten structure.  The hydration came in at 81% which was pretty high for a 35% whole grain bread.  After 10 minutes of slap and folds and 3 sets of S&F on 20 minute intervals the dough went into the fridge for an overnight retard.

 

When putting the SD in the fridge I noticed that the YW had gone unused for a while and probably needed refreshment but would wait on that till the morning.  First thing in the morning I got out the YW and mixed up an enriched white dough similar to the SD but added ricotta cheese and the only whole grains were the Toadies.

 

No levain build, no autolyse and no retard required.  It felt much wetter than the 74% hydration it calculates to.  Still, this too is very wet for something that is supposed to be a shaped, rope roll of some kind.   So if you want more coil definition, use less liquid for both of these dough preparations.

 

We just tossed everything together, did 10 minutes of slap and folds and 3 sets of S&F’s on 15 minute intervals and then left the dough on the counter to ferment for 2 hours,  At the end of 2 hours we retrieved the SD out of the fridge to let it warm up for and hour.   This is when Lucy sort of went berserko with her wild, hair brained ideas that she is known for executing poorly if at all.

 

She thought it would be cool to make Franz Joseph rolls by making ropes out of the 2 varieties of dough and then twist 1 of each kind together to make a 145 g  twisted rope.  This twisted, half step sister rope could then be shaped  into Franz Joseph rolls, which are the same as Kaiser rolls but named properly from a historical point of view.

 

We didn’t need or want 12 buns, so we took half of each  dough and used that to make a 6 strand round challah since these mixes sure looked and smelled like challah to me… only way more wet.

 

It was a bad choice since the dough was too wet and should have been in a loaf pan instead.  Always listen to Mini Oven when she says, (paraphrased) something like, ‘if its not ciabatta and over 80% hydration, it belongs in a tin! 

I couldn’t remember what temperature to bake enriched dough at so looked at the beet infused buns and saw 350 F.  Since I know my oven is 25 F low, I baked at 375 F with steaming lava rocks in a CI skillet. I put the egg washed challah on the top stone 4 minute before the egg washed and sesame seeded rolls went on the bottom stone.  After 8 more minutes out came the steam and on went the convection at 350 F this time.

We rotated the bread and rolls every 5 minutes on the stones and at the 25 total  minute mark the rolls looked done and out they came to cooling racks without testing for temperature.  8 minutes later the challah hit 202 F.  We turned off the oven and then when the challah hit 205 F we removed it from the off oven.

  

Everything browned nicely, no blisters were expected since you can’t get them at 375 F no matter how much steam you have.  We sliced open the challah and found that the SD portion was more open than the YW one and it looked like the YW portion was way under proofed compared to our normal crumb but the bread.

We should havelet the YW ferment for at least 2 hours more on the counter, 4 total or more hours before getting out the SD from its retard.  The cool part was the slightly darker SD portion that has tang.  Gives a unique looke to the bread. Not as dramatic a contrast as the Chaccon for Eric by far, but it is s subtle thing you can’t help but notice and taste.

Would expect the same thing for the rolls but won’t know till dinner time.  The rolls were much like the Challah on the inside adn made the perfect vehicle for the high rise hamburger where my architectural training was needed!  These burgers were 6 oz with soy sauce, garlic and onion powder, salt and pepper seasoning.  The toppings were BBQ sauce and ketchup,  grilled and caramelized onions, mushrooms, red yellow, green and Hatch peppers, apple wood smoked bacon, smoked Gouda and brie cheeses, home grown; tomato and lettuces. The sides were sweet and white rose baked potato wedges and a nice salad. When you only have ham,burgers once a month you have to go all out.  The buns held up exceptionally well structurally and their grilling really made them tasty. 

Multigrain SD Hamburger Buns

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whole Wheat Levain

Build 1

Build 2

 Build 3

Total

%

WW  SD Starter

20

0

0

20

4.12%

Rye

0

0

25

25

5.15%

WW

50

60

0

110

22.68%

Spelt

0

0

25

25

5.15%

Water

50

45

40

135

27.84%

Total

50

45

65

315

64.95%

 

 

 

 

 

 

Levain Totals

 

%

 

 

 

Flour

170

35.05%

 

 

 

Water

145

29.90%

 

 

 

Hydration

85.29%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Levain % of Total

32.37%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

 

 

 

AP

315

64.95%

 

 

 

Dough Flour

315

64.95%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Salt

8

1.65%

 

 

 

Milk

203

41.86%

 

 

 

Dough Hydration

64.44%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Flour

485

100.00%

 

 

 

Milk and Water

348

 

 

 

 

T. Dough Hydration

71.75%

 

 

 

 

Whole Grain %

35.05%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hydration w/ Adds

81.70%

 

 

 

 

Total Weight

973

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Add - Ins

 

%

 

 

 

Egg

50

10.31%

 

 

 

Butter

57

11.75%

 

 

 

Honey

15

3.09%

 

 

 

VW Gluten

10

2.06%

 

 

 

Total

132

27.22%

 

 

 

 

YW White Hamburger Buns

 

 

 

 

 

Yeast Water

100

27.40%

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

AP

365

100.00%

Dough Flour

365

100.00%

 

 

 

Salt

7

1.92%

Water

115

31.51%

Dough Hydration

31.51%

 

 

 

 

Total Flour

365

100.00%

Water

215

 

T. Dough Hydration

58.90%

 

Whole Grain %

4.11%

 

 

 

 

Hydration w/ Adds

74.10%

 

Total Weight

769

 

 

 

 

Add - Ins

 

%

Egg

45

12.33%

Butter

45

12.33%

Ricotta Cheese

60

16.44%

White Rye Malt

3

0.82%

Toadies

12

3.29%

Honey

10

2.74%

VW Gluten

7

1.92%

Total

182

49.86%

Comments

Alpana's picture
Alpana

My teen & tween will say these are real cool rolls. But I will not show them Lucy's artistic ideas as I will be expected to replicate ;). 

The crumb does equal justice to the beautifully shaped rolls. Do post the photo of the hamburger once it is loaded.

Alpana

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

are posted.  I just shaped them as Kaiser rolls using the braided twisted rope. The dough was so wet it was hard to get them to look right with the 5 humps and twists.  Didn't hurt the taste though.  The kids will like them.

Happy baking Alpana

Alpana's picture
Alpana

This is hamburger fiesta! And with so many veggies and multigrains, it is almost guilt free.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I should feel totally guilt free!  And what little guilt there might be is all my apprentices fault anyway!

varda's picture
varda

Hi DA, :Love the buns.   Very nice shaping.   I would eat those hamburger night or no hamburger night.  -Varda

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

to the piling on of all the goodies and toasting them really brought out the bread's flavor.  The challah didn't turn out as nice as we had hoped becsue the YW portion in the middle did proof at the same rate as the SD portion around it so it looks a little  squashed in the middle.   We will cure this by making the YW dough at the since time adn the same way as the SD portion so they are on the same schedule.

Those buns taste as good as they look - another two'fer

Happy baking Varda.  Look forward to your next masterpiece.  Still working on Tzitzel if I can get my apprentice to not try to gussie it up so much :-)

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Love the braiding on the larger loaf.  Looks like a Celtic knot.

Love the shaping on the smaller buns too and the sesame seeds.  I always loved loaves covered in sesame seeds when I was younger.  My mother bough some kind of bread that I couldn't wait to get my hands on due to the sesame seeds. I remember eating the crust first all by itself just to savor the flavor the seeds imparted.  Funny - I rarely top my loaves with them cuz the mess they make on the counter when cooling.  Some always seem to fall off and I admit to being lazy when cleaning up under my racks....but now, seeing yours and the fond memories that they brought to mind I am thinking I just might take the plunge.

Thanks for the nudge.

Take Care,

Janet

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

in a long time where we didn't put any corn in the mix.  It should have at least been in the DD portion for better flavor.

The first time I remember sesame seeds on a bun was when McDonald's came to town with their Big Mac.  Loved them on buns ever since.  They just remind me of what a real hamburguer bun is supposed to be like :-)  Never had a bagel till long after that.

Nothing like a good bun Janet!

Happy baking

isand66's picture
isand66

Great looking rolls.  Looks like you got a nice open and tender crumb.  These rolls would be great more than once a month.  I suggest a grilled chicken burger and turkey burger and pork jowels burger week!

I'm working on my posts....hopefully sometime tomorrow I can have at least one up. 

Ian

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I almost had one for lunch yesterday but thought why have two in one day.  Plus i froze 3 of them which is perfect for next months hamburger night.  We have grilled chicken almost every night if you throw out the odd grilled  beef and grilled pork and twice a week grilled fish. We cook everything on the grill it seems.  Very healthy and jeeps the heat out of the house,  No more baking inside - it the mini oven on the patio from now on.

You would like the buns Ian but the burgers might be to much for you :-) This batch was exceptional due to the meat and buns,

Look forward to your posts!  I have Japanese black rice sprouting, they chitted this morning,  for a Friday bake of something dark along the lines of Karin's Wild Rice Bread.

Happy Baking 

Wingnut's picture
Wingnut

Good looking bake Dab, were they on the sweet side? That is some talent with all that braiding.

Cheers,

Wingnut

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Most enriched buns have a ton of sugar in them but I just put a little bit of honey in them instead so the sweetness was not notice.  I try to stay away from sugar in breads because of diabetes 2.  That way i can have some in desserts :-)  I didn't get the  nice looking 5 humps on the FJ rolls because it was too wet and a twisted braided rope to boot.  One of them came out OK though so 25% OK is better than none.  These taste pretty good and it is a nice contrast to have SD and non SD in the same bun.

I do the easy 6 strand round braid instead of the much harder and impossible to remember long 6 strand one that Varda does.

Happy baking Wing - Loved your Kaiser rolls.

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Beautiful rolls, DA!

I always admired the color on your buns, just the perfect degree of browning.

Very nice crumb too, well done!

-Khalid

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

is due to the egg wash and baking to 205 F.  When baking at such low temperatures for enriched dough it helped to find out my oven was 25 F too low so instead of baking at the normal 350 F I moved it up 25 degrees to get the right temperature and the color of all my breads improved. More important to bake to 205 F on the inside though.

Your last bake sure turned out well - not that they all don't turn out well :-)  Glad you liked the rolls!

Happy baking Khalid.

evonlim's picture
evonlim

scrumptious things stacking high in between those beautiful buns!! you do know how to make us drool!!

Thank you for sharing :)

evon

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

the drowning of the black rice was premature and that this morning they chitted and should really be well along the sprout route by tomorrow when they will go into some kind of darker bread.

Hamburger is the one food I think you can get and enjoy the world over.  It is by far the number one comfort food for many in North America.  Much better to grow the lettuce and tomato, grind the meat, make the bacon and the bun.  Then pile it all high with a mix of flavorful and smoky cheeses with grilled and caramelized veggies.

I'm still trying to beat out Lindy's on 4th Ave. in Tucson for the best hamburger.  Their two grilled cheese sandwiches or 2 glazed donuts for the buns are tough to beat though :-)  These burgers would be tough to beat otherwise.  Just as delicious as they look.  No leftovers for Lucy which really makes her more vengeance determined than usual and more prone to ankle biting her master.

Glad you liked the post Evon and Happy Baking!

evonlim's picture
evonlim

Glad to know that the black rice is alive! I soaked mine 8 hours. U must have a smoker to make those bacon. Staying in a condo limits me to get a barbecue unit ;( my brother in Alabama Bermingham proudly owned one he called it his Mercedes!
Home grown lettuce and tomato, you are killing me!! Just envy!!
Beware of Lucy,s ankle biting! Lol...
Look forward to your next post

Evon

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

make sure that you get an electric one where you can control the temperature very precisely.  Meats smoke at different temperatures from chicken, to fish, to huge chunks of pork, ribs or brisket.   Plus you want to do cold smoking for the best smoked fish and some cured sausages and jerky.  Curing and smoking are two of the 'great all things culinary' to master.