The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Vermont Sourdough

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MTK's picture
MTK

Vermont Sourdough

Today I try the Vermont Sourdough from  Jeffrey Hamelman's famous book. As the author said, "this is an excellent 'everyday bread'". The hydration is appropriate and the dough is easy to handle. My friend adapted the recipe according to the hydration of starter. I baked two of them.

This is the first one. After mixing, I folded it two times and retarded for 18 hours in the fridge. I preheated my oven to the highest temperature(about 275 degrees). And I used stones in a pan to produce steam and the result is satisfying . The bread rose well in the oven and it got a big ear which made me quite excited. Because the top of the bread is too closed to the heating tube so I cover an aluminium foil. So the top of the bread looks a little too pale. It's crunchy and the taste is good. 

This is the second one I baked today.This time I  I didn't retard it in the fridge. The fermentation is 24 degrees centigrade. The bulk fermentation is about 2 and a half hours. I folded it two times at 50 and 100 minutes. After 2 folds:

Final fermentation:

60 minutes and 100 minutes

The final fermentation is about 2 hours.  This loaf is about 900 grams. I baked for 40 minutes. I produced steam in the first 15 minutes.

It sings for long after taking out from the oven. After cooling down,cracks can be seen on the surface.

jemar's picture
jemar

Your bread looks really good, I wish mine was as good!

MTK's picture
MTK

Thank you Jemar.I'm glad you like it. The vermont sourdough is really tasty. Maybe you can have a try on it.

SonyaBakes's picture
SonyaBakes

It's picture perfect! What makes it Vermont sourdough? I am into my first week of making a sourdough starter. It went from smelling like rotten cheese to mild, fruity wine. I can't wait until it's strong enough to bake wIth!

MTK's picture
MTK

I have kept the starter for at least four months and it has a special aroma(quite sour). Maybe you should wait until the starter get stable. Wish you success!

My recipe(adapted by my friend ) is 

whole wheat starter (100%hydration) 170g

bread flour(t65 from France) 375g

whole rye flour 50g

water 260g

salt 10g

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Sourdough bread.  Just the way this bread is supposed to be.  Perfectly proofed and baked.

Very well done indeed!

MTK's picture
MTK

Thank you dabrownman~haha~^o^

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

Very pretty and no doubt equally tasty.

Paul

MTK's picture
MTK

Thank you, Paul. I try the bread with some homemade pineapple jam, it's fantastic~

Mebake's picture
Mebake

How spherical! very round and delicious. Did you stick to the recipe water? what type of bread flour do you use (protein content).

Beautiful!

-Khalid

MTK's picture
MTK

Thank you, Khalid. The bread flour i used is t65, a kind of French flour, protein 12.5%. All ingredients (except salt) autolysed for 30 minutes. I mixed all the ingredient with my KA mixer, about 2 minutes on speed 2. It's shaggy and sticky to the mixing bowl after mixing. I have to grease the mixing bowl with olive oil. After two folds, gluten developed and dough became less sticky.  I still need to flour the  work surface a bit.

silas_miller's picture
silas_miller

Nice loaves! I just did this recipe as well and likewise had fantastic results. I'd love to be able to healthy it up a bit with more whole grains, but doubt the crumb can take much more. 

 

What Rye Flour did you use?

MTK's picture
MTK

Thank you! I'm glad you like it. I used whole rye flour. In Hamelman's book, there's some small changes in this formula. He increases the whole-ryle flour percentages to 15%, while bread flour is 85%. I think the whole grain percentage can be higher than that.

ndechenne's picture
ndechenne

Most incredible loaf I've seen since I got here! I'm literally salivating.  So let me get this straight, you did and S&F twice on this, then retarded in the fridge for 18hrs? No other serious prep? Then final form and a 2hr FP? And the high protein dough seems to do wonders!

 

I MUST try this one!

MTK's picture
MTK

1.Bulk fermentation: 2.5hrs (stretch and fold twice)

2.retard:18hrs

3.warm up to room temperature then final shaping

4.2hr final fermantation

No other special procedure.

Protein of the dough is relatively high, so it's easier to handle and get a good result. I'm trying to increase the whole grain percentages.

Thank you! 

ndechenne's picture
ndechenne

Boy I dont' even want to tell you what happend on these, they just went all crazy. Tasted good... but pancakes. So, I'm gonna try again. Question, is the 170g of starter accurate? these loaves are a bit smaller than I normally run, could be just that but it seems like a smal amount. Reason why I ask is that my fridge BF didn't rise much. I did 2 S&F's at 50 and 100 minutes, in the fridge at 150 minutes for 18hrs. Then out. Now, on the shaping. Did you do an S&F before shaping? One loaf was really sticky, seems like it could have benefitted. The others I think I overproofed, know how to address that but just looking for little tweak details here before I go back at it. I am determined!

MTK's picture
MTK

I used 170g starter and the fermentation went well. What kind of bread flour do you use and how about the protein content? According to this recipe, with 260g water inside, the dough is not sticky. If you feel the dough is too shaggy or sticky, maybe you can add one or two more stretch&fold during the fermentation.The dough in the fridge won't rise too much, so you need to let it sit under the room temperaturate a bit longer and finish the rest of BF. If you're going to do one more stretch and fold, it's better to do before you retard the dough.  I hope this can help.

ndechenne's picture
ndechenne

Thanks. I used KAF Bread flour, 12.5% protein, and Red Mill Rye. I autolysed the mixture for 30 minutes (shaggy), then put in the kitchenaid for 2 minutes exactly on setting 2. I got a cohesive dough, but sticky. When I did my S&F at 50 and 100 minutes I was very happy with the results, the gluten seemed to be forming. I sat it for 50 more minutes (2.5hrs total before fridge), then to the fridge for 18hrs. I think I messed up the final proof, I should have let the thing warm to room temp more slowly. Question, when you formed the loaves did you do a tension pull? I did and it reduced in size quite a bit for final proof. As such, I wanted it to catch up to size, there's where I think I made the egregious error.

 

I'll keep at it. Flavor was really good, regardless of how bad it looked. And it browned well, I had thought I got away with one but it appears not ;-)

MTK's picture
MTK

What's the temperature of fermentation? I suggest that you can reduce the water amout if it's too sticky. My flour seems to absorb more water than yours. And the dough is not that sticky according to the recipe I post. Actually I used more water (maybe 20~30g) in the round loaf. The dough for the round loaf is a bit sticky, but not as sticky as you said. There's probability of over proof, but I'm not that sure. The dough of higher hydration proof faster than the lower one.

Do you have any pictures of your dough? Maybe I can have a look. 

ndechenne's picture
ndechenne

It's cold, probably low/mid 40's in the fridge. Interesting about the water. When mixing the ingredients it was really dry/shaggy. Then, after autolyse and I mixed it in the mixer... it rose right up the dough hook like a good dough. To me the consistency seemd right but it was still a bit sticky. I use very little flour in the S&F stages, maybe a little more there to help, we'll see. After the S&F stages, looked pretty good and i was expecting greatness.  I'll back the water back a little and see what happens. 

No photos, they're already eaten! They were flat pancakes... only a couple of inches tall. Blech to look at but surprisingly tasty. Good toast nonetheless. 

I keep going back to the overproof issue, I think I'm gonna give it another try and monitor the time better. Truth is we were out and about a bit that day and got a little long on the proof, but i thought I might get away with it. Apparently not...

MTK's picture
MTK

You're right. Maybe you should go back to the overproof issue. My dough is like yours at first, quite dry and shaggy at first. 

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

makes me want to give it a try too. Can I use regular bread flour if T65 is not available.  I also have some baguette flour but I wonder if that may not be appropriate.

Judy

MTK's picture
MTK

Thank you,Judy. I think normal bread flour is ok. I used t65 because I can't get unbleach bread flour here. My sourdough with local bread flour can't rise.  

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

is it possible to feed my white starter with ww flour a couple of times to get a ww starter?  Or must I have a starter that is initially made with ww flour?  Many thanks.

Judy

MTK's picture
MTK

You can feed it with ww flour. Sometimes I feed my starter with rye flour once and use. White starter is Ok. Unbleached white flour is too expensive here. So I use some ww flour instead(This ww flour is different from normal ww flour. It's a medium strength flour. Chinese people used them for making steamed bun. It's cheap and easy to get. )

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

I'd be happy to take you to my baker where I get my flour at a very inexpensive price.  I use unbleached baguette flour from Korea/Japan  for my starters and good ww flour at HK$14 a kilo.  

Judy

MTK's picture
MTK

Thank you very much, Judy. I will come back to Canton in the next year. If I go to HK, it's happy to see you. Actually I tried to find ww flour from the Internet. I searched some HK website, but I haven't found appropriate flour. 

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

Imported organic wholewheat flour from UK or USA can easily be purchased from most supermarkets here in HK.@ approx. HKD35 - 40 per kilo, depending on the brand.  I've been using imported ww flour but now I can get this from my bread tutor.

 

MTK's picture
MTK

That's really good. Imported organic whole wheat flour from UK can be purchased from Internet. About 20~30 per kilo...Are you Chinese or foreigner?

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

I'm surprised that ww flour is cheaper purchased through the internet. is this incl shipping? I'm Chi. and born in HK.

Judy