The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Maybe I'm not such a loser as I thought

  • Pin It
soulhighwing's picture
soulhighwing

Maybe I'm not such a loser as I thought

Hi, I'm a newbie for bread making.

got a kenwood chef recently. try to make some bread, but not get any lucky.

attach is 2 bread I made: right is plain and left is cranberry(with butter). all of them seems more like a cake than bread.

I have no ideas what's wrong with it. but it just don't looks like the bread I bought from market also not soft like them.

any comments are helpful.

thanks a lot

 

update: after compare a bread with a photo on the book, I gain a little bit confidence now.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Nice cake.

Have you a link to the recipe or post the recipe?  Need more information, thank you.

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Those sure look like "quick breads" which are chemically levened cakes so to speak.  They look delicious. As Mini suggested post a recipe and more help will be come.  

clazar123's picture
clazar123

A Sally Lunn is a cross between a bread and a cake, texture-wise. It is sweet for a bread but not as sweet as a cake unlees you add a sweet layer to it like cinnamon sugar. Someone here once said that a Sally Lunn is a brioche that is barely mixed so there is not much gluten formation.

Sally Lunn:no gluten strands

So if your bread is a yeasted bread made with AP or bread flour, then you need to knead this a lot more to get a more bread-like consistency. It also looks like it has eggs or butter in it (yellow coloration), which will make for a lot softer crumb.

Brioche: nice gluten strands

 Both of these pictures have almost an identical recipe and ingredients. The only difference is the amount of gluten development/kneading.

As requested above-a recipe would be nice so we can really help you and not just conjecture.

soulhighwing's picture
soulhighwing

plan bread is the basic white bread on kenwood cheif's book

15g fresh yeast or 7g sachet(1 and 1/2 tsp) fast action dried yeast (I'm using 7g active dried yeast)

300ml lukewarm water

1 tsp sugar

450g strong plain white flour

1 and 1/2 tsp salt

not know if I doing this right or not, since previous failed proofing , I think maybe because I mistake by put yeast directly into the flours. so this time I mixed them with water and sugar, sit for 10 min till bubble , mixed the sault and flour using mixer on minimum speed, slowly add the yeast and water till they combind into a soft dough.  then kead for about 6 mins on speed 1 till smooth and elastic (question: I know the Window pane test, but never succeed, no matter how long(30 mins) or how short(3 min) I knead the dough, just don't know how long shall I knead the dough by speed 1 )

covered with oiled clear film and rise in 28C for 1 hour

use the dough hook on minimum speed for 60 secs to knock back. 

shape, cover with film rise another 60 hour till double in 38C

210C oven for 25 mins.

 

cran berry bread is almost same except added butter and cran berry. knead longer(15 mins total) than plain bread.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23931/sd-100-ww-hokkaido-milk-loaf-oxymoron

Take a look at this thread, She does have a picture of windowpane and a good suggestion just above the picture. I think that is one of the solutions for you for a more bread-like texture.

Another idea is that if you want a softer loaf, there are some different ingredients you may need to add and some different techniques to use. The recipe you are using is a very lean recipe. There is not much fat ,dairy or eggs. These are the ingredients that would help make a softer loaf. Floyd has a great post about using tanzhong. That will give you a VERY soft loaf.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/32997/hokkaido-milk-bread-tangzhong

There are several other techniques to achieve a soft bread. If you enter "soft bread" in the search box, there will be MANY threads that pop. What you want to achieve is very attainable but there are many different concepts to learn. Take some time,try changing one thing for the next bake and see what happens. Make a not and then try one more different thing for the next bake.  You WILL be able to get a soft delicious loaf.

soulhighwing's picture
soulhighwing

thanks clazar , I'm going to try something with more cream&eggs. 

soulhighwing's picture
soulhighwing

here's what I did: using the same recipe I use except switch the water to milk. and using instant dry yeast instead of active dry yeast. after mix everything in the mixer, I mixed another 30 mins in various speed till I feel it's getting window pan, added some extra water. then fold the dough into a ball covered in room temp(around 15C). after 20 mins the dough has almost double in size (wow, I never know that's so fast), so I think maybe I can fold it again? and I did it, and do the same thing in another 40 mins. it was later night,so I decided put it into the fridge. everything seems going on well except I forget some important thing: there's too much yeast in the dough , the recipe said 7g and I put around 8g (a small pack), thought it's pretty cool here, so a little bit more yeast won't hurt. I was wrong-- I forgot I have to decrease the yeast when over night. anyway the next morning the dough still seems pretty good, after 2 hours bring back to room temp. I shape it rest it, and start final proofing in the oven at 35C. 90 mins later, the dough only get a little bigger but not double. feeling anxious, I raise the temp to 40C. 20 mins later the dough reach to the size I want. slash and bake using no preheat method I learned here. 30 mins later I got the bread in the pic.

the crust feels good to me, but the crumb is still not satisfy, and it's full of yeast smell.

I know here's what maybe wrong to me:
mixed too much time
too much yeast
wrong proofing
less baking time

I just don't know which one is the cause and how to improve it.

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Try proofing at room temperature. 35C will boost the yeast, but it is not just yeast growth you want.

see e.g.

http://blowers.chee.arizona.edu/cooking/kinetics/bread.html

http://www.slideshare.net/andrewvh24/the-effect-of-temperature-on-bread-yeast

grind's picture
grind

Honestly, I'd change the flour.  That extra 1 gram of yeast should not have caused the dough to double as quickly as you say it did.  Sometimes a particular batch of flour is just too hot and baking bread with it almost never works.  Try another brand or a different batch code from the the same company.  Save yourself the mounting frustration.  Good luck.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

It sounds more like cake flour.  Is anything added into the flour?

soulhighwing's picture
soulhighwing

I'm in new zealand. there's not much brand here.

Using a high grade flour said to have 11% portein. nothing added to the flour. but the wheat may come from AU. 

here's another fail

following the recipe here . everthing seems perfect, even got a oven spring, but inside........someone said I'm over proofing, I just don't know the right time.

 

and here's another bread made by my wife using the same flour but added milk butter and suger. Hate to see her success :(

 

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

60 seconds in the mixer - Do you do this each time?

What was different in your wife's process?

soulhighwing's picture
soulhighwing

not for the french baguettes which I only use the mixer to mix everything together.

different from my wife:

1. recipe

2. mixing time, hers takes around 15mins. I spent almost 30mins.

3. proofing tempeature and time hers was higher and short in the oven with a bowl of hot water.

 

grind's picture
grind

Is the flour your wife used from the same bag as the flour you are using?  Or is it just the same brand?

soulhighwing's picture
soulhighwing

same bag,she made it day before yesterday.

FlourChild's picture
FlourChild

Sounds like your round boule could have been both overmixed and overproofed.  30 minutes is a very long time to knead the bread, try rolling that back to 10-15 minutes.  For the final shaped proof, lower the temp to 25-30C and proof until it passes the dent test.  Regardless of how high the bread is in the pan, proof it only until a finger poked gently into the dough produces and indentation that fills in slowly.  If the indentation fills in quickly it needs more time, if it remains and doesn't fill it at all, it is overproofed.

good luck!

soulhighwing's picture
soulhighwing

thanks, will try another bread few days later, those breads need to be kill first.

soulhighwing's picture
soulhighwing

here's a pic I took, compare one pice of bread and a pic on bread book.

maybe that is how homemade bread should look like. Plus it actually taste good after light toast.