The Fresh Loaf

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bought a kenwood chef classic, few questions/issues with sourdough

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beakernz's picture
beakernz

bought a kenwood chef classic, few questions/issues with sourdough

Hi,

 

I've decided to cut a few corners with my bread.  My family and I go through a sourdough loaf every 3 days 1.7kg loaf.  In the interest of saving time I got a mixer and had my first attempt today.  Pre-mixer I would mix my ingredients (pre-ferment, flours, water, malt powder, etc) into a good dough ball then let sit for 3hrs.  After this I add salt and would hand knead for 15 mins, the bulk proof, then final proof.  It has worked well aside from time and mess.  So today with the Kenwood I add the ingredients and run on 1 for 1 minute, it made a phenomenal dough ball.  I set this aside for a while, then added salt and went to knead it again with the kenwood 5mins.  It seemed the dough would only cling to the hook with a chunck at the bottom spinning around.  So I'm not so sure I got a good knead.  I am looking for any tips.  Was the dough too wet, speed too low, etc?  The bread is in the over as I type so I'll post a pic when it's ready.  I think I may need to adjust the hook so that it is even closer to the bowl but not sure it seems fairly close already.  I'm sure I'll get the hang of it eventually, people seem to say the dough should be slapping hard against the side of the bowl but I just couldn't get this at all -however the first mixing it did do this.  Thanks!

beakernz's picture
beakernz

loaf is out of the oven, seems ok but probably could have risen a tad bit more..

 

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

from other Kenwood users. I use a Chef Titaniium and I mix on Minimum speed to mix the ingredients then gradually turn it up to 1 or slightly faster but just a little beyond 1 and never on 2.  I've never had the slapping sound on my machine also  and because I don't bake in large batches, the dough hook would often miss the dough ball thereby resulting in a longer knead. so I sometimes prefer to  knead by hand for a while and then plonk the dough back in the mixing bowl so that the machine doesn't get too hot.  It's my first stand mixer so I'm not familiar with the mechanism and when to turn the speed up. I know that the hook can be adjusted but I have no idea whether mine needs adjustment or not.  When I see the dough  is no longer sticking to the bottom of the bowl as it turns, I assume that the position of the hook is okay.

Kenwood now has a newer model  "Cooking" Chef that has a spiral dough hook and I which performs much better than the regular hook.  It's the only machine so far that has a spiral hook for home bakers.  Unfortunately the spiral hook is exclusive to the Cooking Chef and cannot be purchased as an attachment.

Judy

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

I my opinion the hook is good for other uses (hard doughs such as egg pasta), but for leavened doughs the paddle has no contendents! There's really no comparison between a dough mixed with the hook and the same dough mixed with the paddle.

This last attachments has a larger surface and forces the dough to slam against the sides of the bowl, thus there's more friction and more energy for the dough. Gluten develops much better and breads rise much more. Try and you'll never look back. I knead at speed 2 all the time.

Note: I have a Kenwood Kmix, not a Chef, but as far as I know the attachments are the same (except for the spiral hook that I don't  have).

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

Wow, this is new to me! The dough hook is the attachment I use most and I would certainly like to make more use of the other attachments if I can.   I've only used the paddle once for mixing cake batter.  I've never considered using the paddle because it has more open holes and the dough gets stuck in between the crevices whereas it's easier to clear all the dough from the hook with two fingers.

Judy

beakernz's picture
beakernz

When you talk about the paddle do you mean the one with the "K" in it?  I have the K tool and one that scrapes the bowl.  Also, you're saying I should try the paddle to bring the dough together, and after autolyse use the paddle again to knead?  How much dough weight is ideal when using the paddle?  Thanks!  Also, one frustration is I can't seem to find any good videos showing a kenwood chef mixing dough.  It would be nice to see it in action so I know exactly what I should be seeing myself.

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

I wouldn't use the K tool that scrapes the dough (with gum layers on the sides), but the ordinary one 

kMix K beater

I do everything with the paddle: autolyse and kneading (well, actually I never autolyse other than for some experiments). Knead until the dough remains firmly clinged at the paddle after raising the kneading arm, the dough shouldn't fall down. If the dough looks still ragged detach it from the paddle with wet hands, fold it in hour hands 3-4 times and knead some more.  

The ideal weight depends on shape and dimension of the bowl: the more the bottom is narrow the better small amounts will be handled (again: less space leads to more friction and to more energy. Cheap mixers generally have a large bottom, a total disaster!). Generally I feel confortable with doughs ranging from 900 to 1300 grams.

beakernz's picture
beakernz

Thanks!  I am going to give this a go and report back in a couple days :)

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

Maybe the paddle would work well for a larger amount of flour, I  normally work with approx 500grs of flour or less and even with that, my dough hook keeps falling down into the bowl with the weight of the dough when I lift the mixer.   It doesn't  seem  right to me.

Judy

 

beakernz's picture
beakernz

I experimented with a 500 gram dough tonight and the paddle didn't work, dough stuck to it and just spun around.  I then managed to get the dough hook working ok.  Well, I've never seen what it's supposed to look like but the dough was slapping against the bowl quite frequently.  I suspect when the dough hits the wall the hook spins inside the dough but we can't really see this happening.  I'll be baking it tomorrow and will post then.

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

spinning empty than probably the dough was too stiff. In that case you could have used more water.

The dough must be slapped against the bowl, it's exactly the intended purpose. If it  doesn't there's no energy transfer to the dough.

beakernz's picture
beakernz

thanks.  I did get slapping with the dough hook, you could hear the motor change sound every time it slapped and the machine was shaking a bit when it happened.  I'm not sure if it was enough of a slap or not, I can't seem to find any videos of a kenwood chef doing dough.

sandydog's picture
sandydog

I had an old Kenwood mixer which was ideal for up to 1Kg of dough - I replaced it (After 20 years use) with a Kenwood Chef Major Titanium model which is great for up to 2Kg of dough. Both models worked/work just fine - I usually use the K beater to do the initial mix/flour hydration for a minute or so then switch to the dough hook for final mixing/kneading (Either immediately, or after Autolyse) most doughs take about 3 minutes on speed 1 then about 5 minutes on speeds 2/3 before they are ready for Bulk fermentation. It is when they are on speed 2 (Or occasionally 3) when I get the slapping action.

beakernz's picture
beakernz

When it slaps does the dough come off the hook and then get punched around or is the dough somewhat always around the hook while it's slapping?  Thanks!

sandydog's picture
sandydog

The dough is somewhat always around the hook while it's slapping, and if I have got the hydration correct it never all comes off the bottom of the bowl either