The Fresh Loaf

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Soggy Bread

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RB32689's picture
RB32689

Soggy Bread

I have read that it is a good idea to soak the flour overnight, preferably 24 hours in water and apple cider vinegar (1400ml water+ 6tbsn (84ml). It substantially reduces the phytates. I have done this on two occassions and my bread is fairly solid with air holes from the yeast. In fact the inside looks an MRI of the brain instead of a grainy loaf.

The next day, after soaking, the flour was springy and did not stick to the sides of the pan. It was moist and felt and looked like the finished dough but I yet to add the yeast, sugar, salt, some more water and kneed it. 

Recipe:

Flour: Spelt 2k

Water with  apple cider vinegar   added: 1400ml and next day a further  200ml added when  adding yeast, etc

Vit C 1g

Mollases 35g

Salt 1 tspn

Fast acting dried yeast 14g

Kneeded: 30 minutes

Rising (once only) 1 hour at  room temp.

Cooking 40 minutes in silicon moulds.

Baking Temperature: 180C in fan assisted oven ie 200 without fan.

 

I have cooked loaves without the over night soaking using the same temperature and the results have been good.  Heavy but good.

 

What should I do next time to get the loaf to rise throughout the dough?

Robin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RB32689's picture
RB32689

Has anyone noticed how I can improve my bread baking when I am soaking the flour over night. See my posting above.

 

Robin

harum's picture
harum

a picture for comparison?

RB32689's picture
RB32689

harum's picture
harum

Looks pretty good. How's the taste? I have had something like this when the dough had too much water in it or when the dough wasn't allowed to ferment long enough. The yeast takes several hours to produce enough gas to make the crumb light and airy. 1 hour at room temp is definitely not long enough for your recipe. I have tried scalding for 3 hours, but never tried soaking -- as far as I understand, scaling and soaking give similar results.

RB32689's picture
RB32689

I am using fast action yeast and I did not have this soggy bread problem until I switched to soaking. The first lot had to be thrown away because it was so under done. It was weird. The bread was almost solid in a mud sort of way, but it had air holes throughout implying that the yeast was working but could not lift dough sufficiently.

I have used the recipe without the soaking for at least 6 months and did not need to leave the fementation for more than I mentioned.

I used to make sure the water was at 35deg because that is the optimum for yeast but soaking makes it more difficult to get the right temperature. I am thinking of buying a very small heater with a built in thermostat.

Here is a justification for soaking: http://www.healthbanquet.com/soaking-grains.html

I suspect my problem is the nature of gluten in spelt.

"Because the gluten in spelt is more soluble than wheat gluten, making yeast bread with spelt is also different than making it with wheat. The individual gluten molecules join up more readily to form long chains and sheets that trap the gas produced by yeast. This means that it is possible to over-knead spelt bread.."
http://www.food-allergy.org/spelt.html

I also found this in a recipe suggesting similar short kneeding
"This is the recipe that I use at home for spelt bread, I think you will like how it comes out. The trick with spelt is not to overknead it. When using wheat flour it is almost impossible to knead "too long", but with spelt flour if you knead too long your finished loaved will come out heavy and crumbly. Remember to add the flour gradually and only use enough that you don't actually stick to everything as you knead. I usually add the last cup or so a bit at a time so I can stop when I think the dough has enough flour."
http://www.thenewhomemaker.com/spelt-bread-recipe

I had started out thinking I should add an improver containing gluten. Now I think it is that i have been following a non-spelt floor recipe encouraging a long kneeding.

What do you think?

Robin

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

It's breaking down faster than you can process it into bread. Try skipping the long soak, shorten it or add the recipe salt to the soaker to help out. You could also cook some of it or scald the flour to stop some of the enzyme action.

RB32689's picture
RB32689

"The next day, after soaking, the flour was springy and did not stick to the sides of the pan. It was moist and felt and looked like the finished dough but I yet to add the yeast, sugar, salt, some more water and kneed it. "

Is it the amaylase that caused the flour and water to feel as if had been kneeded?

I have good evidence that unliganded iron is a danger to health. Phytates are a ligand. It is therefore quite hard to know if the increasesd risk from unprotected iron by removing phytates is worth the trade off from freeing othe other nutrients from being bound.

This article has some comments which make me think that I do not need to be concerned about phytates in bread. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytic_acid as I should be getting sufficient nutrients from other sources.

Does baking break down phytates?

Robin