The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Another flour question

AnnieT's picture
AnnieT

Another flour question

Has anyone used Stone-Buhr flour? I guess it is mostly sold on the west coast. I bought a 10lb bag of their Unbleached White Bread Flour today and searched high and low for some indication of the protein content. All I could find was a comment that it is "protein packed", so I Googled it and learned that it used to be called All Purpose and has about 12 for the protein level. All this because my store hasn't had KA All Purpose for weeks and I am scared that they are gradually discontinuing the KA line. I would love to hear any comments, A.

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Yes, I've used Stone-Buhr. Their bread flour is extremely high protein, I thought more like 14% or 15%. I tend to mix it with some AP flour to soften it up some.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

what I buy for "bread flour". Like Floyd, I also mix it with AP to soften it up. My starter for the most part is fed with it, with an occasional toss of whole wheat or rye.

AnnieT's picture
AnnieT

Thanks, Floyd and Paddyscake, glad to hear you use the flour. Strange that they now call bread flour what they used to call all purpose, and I wonder whether you still need to add ap to soften it up. I don't know that I'm experienced enough to be able to notice any difference, so I guess I will just have to bake a loaf and see what happens, A.

Susan's picture
Susan

Two S-B flours are mentioned in this short article.

Susan from San Diego

AnnieT's picture
AnnieT

Susan, many thanks for the article mentioning Stone-Buhr flours. The one I bought is white bread flour, and I wonder whether the very high protein one Floyd used was one of the "Premium" flours which are designated "protein rich:? I couldn't resist testing the new flour even though I still have some KA bread flour, and I like it very much. Yesterday's dough was too wet and the boule spread, but the crumb was great. I started another one today and weighed the flour - I came up with 11.25 ounces? The family are off to Oregon for Thanksgiving and I will send the loaf with them. I get to hold the fort here, A.

Susan's picture
Susan

Just keep on folding that wet dough until it firms up.

I've decided that I can make beautiful bread or holey bread, but I can't make beautiful (to me!), holey bread. But that's okay.

My base flour these days is GM Harvest King, as I can buy it in 50# bags. Amazing how fast I run through them, too! I like adding lots of poppy, millet, unhulled sesame, flax, sunflower seeds, etc., as well as steel-cut oats.

Hope you enjoy your Thanksgiving, Annie! Sometimes holding the fort is the best job of all.

From one who knows,

Susan from San Diego

AnnieT's picture
AnnieT

Good evening Susan. The loaf they took to Oregon looked great but I didn't see the "innards". Of course I had to make another one today and I really like the dough using the S-B bread flour. It has a creamy color and just feels right, and after four folds it was in good shape. Unfortunately I took a tiny nap (with 2 dogs and a cat for company) and let the dough get slightly overproofed. I kneaded it lightly and it is in the refrigerator until tomorrow. I hadn't thought of adding seeds, and I have several types in my freezer - I thought I was being daring to sub. 1/2cup of white ww flour! Next time? My duties are not too onerous, just going over to feed their cat and keeping Pete-the-pest from eating my pets' food! Have a peaceful and happy Thanksgiving, A.

AnnieT's picture
AnnieT

AnnieT

The Yakima Kid's picture
The Yakima Kid

Stone-Buhr makes an all purpose white, a whole wheat, and a bread flour. I have been baking with it for about forty years. I have never found a flour to compare with it, and since the local groceries here in the SF Bay Area seem to have discontinued it, I have been using King Arthur - which in my opinion, is a very poor substitute. Stone-Buhr seems to have better gluten development, and it is far more consistent in how much moisture it contains - if how much water added per cup of flour is any indication. I love the fact that it produces that perfect baby's bottom texture when kneaded. If anyone here is in the Bay Area and knows where I can find Stone-Buhr bread flour, please tell me!

Luber's picture
Luber

Hey Kid -

I'm four years late replying, but I took a baking hiatus and now am back looking for good flours, and good value, in the SF East Bay, which I've experimented and commented on here in the past. Good also to have different flours on hand, and a possibility of blending, for different types of baked goods (in a previous life, I was a pro baker).

Right now, Berkeley Bowl has 5 lb bags of Stone-Buhr Bread, Bob's Red Mill AP, King Arthur AP and Bread, Giusto's Performer and Ultimate Performer, and other whole wheat and cake flours in bags and bulk.

Smart Foodservice (Oakland, Jack London Square; formerly Cash & Carry, looks like they absorbed Smart & Final) has GrainCraft, ADM, and Shepherd's Grain products and some Bob's specialty grains. GrainCraft apparently owned Pendleton Mills, which several folks here said they liked, and dropped the PMF branding.

Another flour buying option I haven't tried yet is Azure Standard, which sells bulk organics by truck delivery; $50 minimum order to get on the truck and then pick it up at one of their regular stops. They have a selection of flours including Bob's (they're also from OR), Central Milling, and a house brand.

For hearth loaves, I've used KA AP, Bob's AP, Giusto's, and Harvest King all with different but good results; I'd pretty much settled on using Bob's, as it was often on sale for $2.50 for 5 lb, but it's a tad soft, so I'd add a little Hi-G for high hydration, pizza dough, or rye bread. I originally used the Giusto's UP, but when that got over $12/5 lb, I went to Smart & Final and got 25 lb of All Trumps.

Since S&F is closed now, I went to Smart Foodservice to get some GrainCraft Power Hi-G. Also got their Morbread, and it's way thirstier and stretchier than Bob's AP. It works up really easy and smooth, but even at high hydration, the finished loaf has a pretty chewy texture, so I may reserve that for rye (which back in my bakery days we used clear flour for) and pizza. Or cut it with Bob's. Haven't tried straight Power yet, kind of afraid to! Both are ~$10/25 lb.

I just got a bag of Stone-Buhr White Bread ($5/5 lb) at the Bowl, going to try it next. I see on the SB website they make the Bread, a whole wheat, and and all-purpose flour that says it's milled from (by?) Shepherd's Grain, so I'm wondering if that's the same as SG Low-Gluten.

The SB Bread nutrition label says its 5 g of protein per 30 g serving, the highest I've seen on a grocery store bag, which is nuts - that'd be 16.7%. USDA allows a lot of rounding, and not all protein is gluten, but I can't believe it'd be more than 14.5-15% max. Their website shows the AP at 11-12.5% and Bread at 11.5-12.1%, which doesn't jibe with the label.

The Giusto's at the Bowl is from their local organic "Vita-Grain" mill, nice but pricey; I heard the same family runs the bigger Central Milling, which I think Acme and some other local bakers use. Maggie Glezer's Artisan Baking has a nice treatise on flour, and she discusses protein with the Acme guys, who say 11-11.5% is ideal. She says of all the grocery store brands, KA AP comes closest to that level  - but they also like higher extraction (more germ).

Some artisan bakers get flour milled to their specs. I've not seen it here but heard Golden Buffalo is a good off-the shelf hi-extraction flour. To mimic one, I also started adding ~10% sifted whole wheat flour (#40 mesh screen) to my hearth loaves, and sometimes a bit of rye for flavor, especially when I'm fermenting long and cool for more sourness. For soft dinner rolls, "American" white bread, and sweet doughs, I keep KA Bread on hand, since it's stretchy but still light-bodied, with a tender bite (pregelatinization helps too). In baker's parlance, KA bread is more like a fancy patent flour, their AP is a straight flour; both KAs are ~$7-8/5 lb at the Bowl.

See elsewhere on this forum for discussions of Giustos/CM and flour protein.

OK, that's my TMI for today :-) I'll try the SB Bread for hearth loaves and report back.

 

Luber's picture
Luber

I did confirm with a Stone-Buhr rep that their retail AP flour (5 lb) with the Shepherd's Grain label is the same as the commercial Shepherd's Grain Low-Gluten (50 lb), but I haven't tried it yet.

Luber's picture
Luber

I tried the SB Bread yesterday, pretty nice flour, similar to the GrainCraft (Pendleton) Morbread in that it's thirsty and works up strong and fast; seems a bit more extensible and less "bucky" (prone to tearing when overstressed), and has a fresher, nuttier, sweeter wheat taste and aroma (this one also had ~10% sifted whole wheat). Pretty good handing at ~78% hydration and a nice-looking loaf (obligatory bread porn attached, remembered before we at it all!), but the tooth is still a little on the chewy side. I'm going to try to find the Stone-Buhr All-Purpose and try that next.