The Fresh Loaf

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bread machine loaf collapse when baking starts

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NutmegCT's picture
NutmegCT

bread machine loaf collapse when baking starts

Good morning.  First post here


I've used my Sunbeam 5891 bread machine for about two years.  At least half the time, regardless of which recipe or ingredients I choose, the loaf collapses inside the machine within five minutes of starting the actual bake cycle


I've tried different yeast brands (both "normal" and "fast rising"), flours, temperatures, etc


Even basic white bread from several recipe sources will still look *great* until about five minutes into the bake cycle.  Then the entire top of the loaf falls down about 2 inches from where it was before it collapsed


Only exception:  if I bake "quick rise" bread, following machine recipes for those breads which are completely mixed, raised, and baked within an hour


Even contacting the Sunbeam bread machine help line, and following those suggestions (more liquid, less liquid, more yeast, less yeast, etc.) - no success


Can anyone suggest what's going wrong


Thanks.


Tom

sandrasfibre's picture
sandrasfibre

try the dough cycle and then bake in your conventional oven in a loaf pan or a cookie sheet for a boule. let us know.

datadoll's picture
datadoll

I just ran across this 4+ years later. For me that problem was caused by altitude. I am at 4500 feet. It causes the bread to over proof.  I have to adjust the amount of yeast, sugar and salt. I find it works best for me just to use the dough cycle, shape by hand and bake in my oven. Even so, I love my machine!!!

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

sounds like there is to much time between rise and bake cycles. the dough is aloed to rise to long and to much. when the dough starts to bake it will start to jump more (oven spring) but sibce it has risen to much allready like a rubber band that is streched to far it pulls back.

try to use the dough mix cycle and then durn the machine off and let the dough rise a little less when you see it has risen manualy turn the machine on to bake.
if you can reduce the amount of time between rise and bake.

dabigo's picture
dabigo

I had this problem in my bread machine too. Cut down on the yeast, I backed mine down by about 25% and they stopped falling.


Mjo

syllymom's picture
syllymom

When this has happened to I cut back on the yeast.  Try cutting back on sugar or not adding sugar at all, as well.

NutmegCT's picture
NutmegCT

Yikes!  I never even thought about "too much" yeast.  I've always just used the entire single packet.   Definitely going to try that on the next loaf.  Certainly makes sense.


Thank you - will advise.


Tom

NutmegCT's picture
NutmegCT

Just an update.  I've baked two more loaves, each using 2/3 the amount of yeast called for in the recipes


Both loaves baked perfectly!  One more test and I'll consider the problem solved.  Don't know why this seems to be the problem, but it's sure better than before


Thanks for all the suggestions!   I'll update once more after the next loaf.


Tom

dabigo's picture
dabigo

I'm happy to hear that it worked out.


I was surprised too when it worked, Never figured it out.


I've gotten away from my bread machine and bought one of those Kitchenaid machines on eBay, I'm much happier. And it's not as much work as I had feared.

NutmegCT's picture
NutmegCT

You did it!  Your suggestions of using less yeast have done the job


I've now completed three loaves, each using 25% less yeast than the recipe recommended


Apple/bran bread.


Orange cumin bread.


and today - the best pumpernickel bread I've ever tasted


Not one single problem of the loaf collapsing.  I've been experimenting and whining about the problem for several years.  You solved it


Thank you everyone!


Tom

dollhead's picture
dollhead

Please tell me more about that orange cumin bread.  Interesting combination of tastes-it has my mouth watering!

ema2two's picture
ema2two

Do tell, what was the recipe for that best pumpernickel bread you ever tasted.  Pumpernickel is my current obsession.

NutmegCT's picture
NutmegCT

1 1/4 c. milk


1 1/2 tbsp veg oil


3 tbsp molasses


3/4 tsp salt


3 tbsp cocoa


1/2 c bread flour


1 1/2 c rye flour


3/4 c whole wheat flour


3 tbsp cornmeal


1 tbsp active dry yeast (I used 2 tsp)



Here's the loaf about an hour out of the bread machine.  Low, dense, but not heavy.  There may be better recipes, but this is the best I've ever had.  I just had another slice this morning for breakfast, with sweet butter,  gouda cheese, a hard boiled egg, and some good dark coffee.  Great!


 


By the way, interesting story if you look up the probable origin of the word Pumpernickel (Pumpen Nickel).


Thanks again!


Tom


 

Kjnsweets's picture
Kjnsweets

Ok so I'm new at these bread machines. I'm used to making bread the old way. If I cut back on the yeast do I need to cut back on the sugar and how much? I haven't tried it on expressbake. I have only tried the regular recipe. I double checked my measurements. I was also told that maybe adjusting the amount of flour would help? I also used the bread recipe that came with the machine. It says I can also make roll dough in it. Im not sure I trust my rolls to it. I have a recipe for rolls that uses no milk and allows me to refrigerate it and use only what I need when I want rolls and the dough keeps for a week in the refrigerator. I've been having that for about 22 years.

FloridaBreadMan's picture
FloridaBreadMan

New here too.  I just had this collapsing top problem with a rye bread in my machine.  It was doming really nicely until the actual bake started.  Then the top collapsed a bit.  Hope it's just cosmetic and doesn't affect the taste.  Doubt it's elevation related since I'm in Florida.  Will try reducing the yeast as suggested for my next loaf.  

FloridaBreadMan's picture
FloridaBreadMan

After several attempts that either didn't rise properly, or the top collapsing after the bake cycle started, I finally adjusted the recipe and got a decent Lower Sodium Light Rye Bread loaf out of my bread machine.

 

I adjusted the amount of water, ratio of Bread Flour to Rye Flour, added 1/2 tsp salt, (previous attempts made using no added salt), used slightly less yeast, and added 2 Tbsp of Vital Wheat Gluten.


1 Cup Water
2 Tbsp Unsalted Butter
2-1/2 Cups Bread Flour
1/2 Cup Rye Flour
2 Tbsp Vital Wheat Gluten
2 Tbsp Light Brown Sugar
2 Tbsp Dry Milk
1/2 Tsp Salt
1 Tbsp Caraway Seed
1-3/4 Tsp Bread Machine Yeast

helplessgreen's picture
helplessgreen

Like datadoll above  I've also just come across this site. I bought a Cookworks breadmaker on Sunday and have made three loaves so far, all of them have fallen once baking has started. I thought it was my fault with the first one as I kept lifting the lid in the early stages to see how it was doing (I know it's got a clear plastic top but I wanted to feel the dough to see if it was soft enough) but the next two loaves have fallen as well and I've kept well away from the machine! So, I'll be using less yeast with the next and if that doesn't work I'll try some of the other suggestions on here. Many thanks for all the help - it's great!!

 

jcking's picture
jcking

1. Decrease Water by 1 to 2 TBLS

2. Increase salt 1/4 tsp

3. Increase flour by 1 to 2 TBLS

4. Decrease yeast 1/4 tsp

5. Flour is old or wrong type

Jim

helplessgreen's picture
helplessgreen

Hi Jim,

Many thanks for your reply. I tried again this morning using less yeast but it's done it again - see the picture below.

I have a Cookworks breadmaker which I bought last week and I'm trying to make whole-wheat bread. The flour is fresh (Allinsons) and I bought a new packet of yeast. I'm following the recipe to the letter and it tastes lovely but the top is only good for dunking in soup!.

 For a 1.5lb loaf they ask for:-

270ml water

2 tbsp. marg. or butter

1 tsp. salt

1.5 tbsp. sugar

1.5 cup whole-wheat flour

1.5 cup bread flour

1.5 tsp. dried yeast

So this morning I tried again with the above recipe but using only 1 tsp. of yeast - thagain it rose OK but then part of it stuck to the top of the machine and the rest collapsed back! The bread at the bottom of the tin is quite well browned (I cooked it on a soft crust as it's wholemeal).

jcking's picture
jcking

Next I would try decreasing the water and not using soft crust. In general bread machines don't do well with whole wheat, that said since your's in only half I would think you could make a decent loaf.

Jim

helplessgreen's picture
helplessgreen

Hi Jim,

Will give that a try - should I go for medium or dark crust? and I'm making soup to dunk the 'top' in 'cause it's too nice to give to the birds!

Pam

helplessgreen's picture
helplessgreen

Hi there again,

Thanks for the advice which (as you can see) has produced a considerable improvement.

I used 20 ml. less water (250 instead of 270),  1 tsp. yeast instead of 1.5 tsp. and baked on medium setting and although it's fallen a little it wasn't as bad as before. Should I try with less sugar now? or cut down even more on the water? The bread tastes wonderful, in fact my husband and I ate half the loaf while it was still warm it tasted so good and we're supposed to be trying to loose weight - not a good combination!

jcking's picture
jcking

I would add 2 Tbls of flour in the next attempt. One of each, white and wheat.

Jim

helplessgreen's picture
helplessgreen

Hi Jim,

 

Once again, many thanks for getting back to me. I will try your suggestion when I bake my next loaf tomorrow and report back.

Best regards,

Pam

helplessgreen's picture
helplessgreen

Hi Jim,

Well things are improving considerably! The last loaf didn't fall as you can see from the picture but what you can't really tell from this is that the bottom and sides of the loaf are quite well cooked despite being on a medium setting so I'm beginning to wonder if the thermostat on the machine might not be up to much. I suppose the next thing to do is to try baking a white loaf and see how that does. But many thanks for all your help - I would never have got this far without it and the bread tastes lovely - so much better than store-bought!

Pam

jcking's picture
jcking

Pam,

Your quite welcome and congrats. I don't think anyone with a bread machine gets their first loaf right. It takes a little tweaking. Yes the Whole wheat will give a darker/more done crust. Lessening the sweetener may help. Since your loaf is tall, the bottom gets the most heat which lets the bottom get more done. You could also try insulating the top of the machine with foil and a tea towel, just don't block any vents the machine may have. I hope in the future, when you have the time, you try your hand at a artisan type loaf in the oven.

Placing your bread in front of others, is an act of love.
Jim

jcking's picture
jcking

Try medium first.

Jim

cp3o's picture
cp3o

Sandrasfiber -- comment was right on the money.  I never bake in the machine.  Use Dough cycle,  then shape , proof and bake in your regular oven.  There's much more versatility too. You can make boules, loaves, baguettes, buns, etc.  Give it a whirl!  

jcking's picture
jcking

In the summer rather than heating up the kitchen and using a lot more electricity (or natural gas), and since it's only one simple loaf, I turn on the bread machine.

Jim

Ocracoke's picture
Ocracoke

Instant Active Dry Yeast gives you two separate rises and it can be used interchangeably with active dry yeast.  Rapid-Rise Yeast you skip the first rise of the dough and shape the loaves right after kneading. I believe the Red Star site states Instant is to be used in bread machines. Anyone using Instant with the Oster?

Antilope's picture
Antilope

weigh the ingredients and go for 60% hydration. I've found that over-proofing (too much yeast or too long a rise) or high a hydration (too wet a dough) or a combination of these will cause loaf collapse.

Falcon's picture
Falcon

Hello,

I am new here. First post. I found this site while looking for answers as to why all of a sudden my bread has started collapsing. My daughter bought me a new bread machine. I used it a couple times and made wonderful loaves of bread. Then all of a sudden as of today I made 2 loaves and both collapsed when it started baking. I watched it mix, kneed and proof all perfectly. I watched it start baking and it looked fine so I went and sat down. I heard the timer go off and went to remove the load and it had collapsed. I have no idea why. I am using fresh brand named bread flour and fresh yeast that I have been using. I am following the recipe I have been using and getting great loaves from. I just don't know what is going on or what to do.

ccsdg's picture
ccsdg

Hi there, welcome to the site. Have you tried any of the solutions in the thread yet?

I remember sinking loaves well..  No longer!

Falcon's picture
Falcon

Hello and thank you for the welcome.

I have not made another loaf of bread since the collapsed ones yesterday. They are edible, they in fact  taste really nice so I am using the ugly things. I will be making more tomorrow and will try using 1 packet of bread yeast rather then the 2 the recipe asks for as well as using an extra tablespoon or 2 of bread flour on top of the 3 cups the recipe asks for and see if that helps. I do not want to have to buy a loaf of bread from the shops. I am on a mission to make everything from scratch that I can including sausage, yoghurt, butter and of course breads.

Falcon's picture
Falcon

I am happy to report that I have a round topped loaf of bread baking away in the machine. I put 1 packet of yeast rather then the 2 and I added a wee bit of extra flour. I do not believe I will need the extra flour in future but adding less yeast really did the trick. I still have 20 minutes of baking to go but looking through the viewing window I can see a perfectly domed top starting to brown nicely. Thank you very much for the advise. You guys know your stuff and I am so glad I fell across this site. I will deff be looking through the forums looking for new recipes to try.

Thanks again guys

Falcon's picture
Falcon

Hello guys,

Ok an update on my bread. It is so lovely and soft and light. The perfect loaf of bread. BUT it is so light it is hard to cut. It almost collapses when I try to cut it. So I have a question. If I add a wee bit more yeast will that make it more dense or lighter? I want to be able to cut it for sandwiches without it caving in but I don't want to lose the perfection and lightness. I don't know what to do here. Add more flour or more yeast. Believe it or not I had 3 years professional cookery classes and in all that time I made 1 loaf of bread and it was from a bread mix box given me by my tutor to make.

ccsdg's picture
ccsdg

Glad it worked! I also love the light and fluffy texture of a well kneaded sandwich loaf. Unfortunately it also makes it harder to cut, because you're cutting more air which resists a knife blade less than baked flour.

Do you wait for the loaf to cool before cutting it? As a loaf cools, water evaporates from it, getting harder and harder, thus easier to cut without squashing it (same process that eventually causes it to go stale).

Falcon's picture
Falcon

I have to confess the loaf was slightly warm. I could not resist it. My daughter came home from work and cut a slice for chocolate spread. The loaf by then was completely cool and she struggled to cut it with out smooshing it. But it is so good. I think I will just stick to the adjusted recipe of 1 packet of yeast and buy a bread slicer. I love this bread so much now I think I will make a batch of dough with it and make sandwich rolls and use the loaf for toast. I am making ham tomorrow for dinner so the loaf will make great open faced ham sandwiches with the mayo / sour cream topping with ham, peas and carrots. A meal from childhood I loved so much. I have always loved fresh baked bread. The smell and taste can not be bought in a shop. I am so happy you guys helped me sort the collapsing problem. I look forward to making bread again.

 

danielwinfield's picture
danielwinfield

Just received a new Sunbeam 5891.  I noticed that there is no Rye/Grain setting.  Can someone recommend a setting that would work for Rye Bread?

 

Thanks

 

Dan

bluemusicnut's picture
bluemusicnut

I am at sea level - Jersey Shore - and wonder if that has an effect.  Reading these posts helped me figure out why i have this problem.  the only recipe i have tried that has not collapses is one with much less yeast.  

i don't know if it is possible to stop my machine and manually re-start for the bake cycle, in order to decrease rising time.

thanks for all the hints.

 

Antilope's picture
Antilope

You can run the dough cycle, unplug the machine and allow the dough to rise once or twice, as long as desired and then plug in the machine and run the manual bake cycle.

I use this method all the time on my bread machine. It allows you more control of how your bread turns out.