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Help?Need help with my croissant

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Baking Enthusiast's picture
Baking Enthusiast

Help?Need help with my croissant

Hi guys,recently i've been baking croissants

and one most common problem is,the inside part of my croissant wont expand properly to a honeycomb shape

and the texture is quite wet, and the smells are quite like a raw dough

 

as you can see,the texture of the crumb is quite wet

Here is how i make my croissant

-make the dough

-refrigerate the dough

-roll the cold butter

-refrigerate the butter

-put the butter into the dough,did the first turn right away

-refrigerate the dough for 15 min

-did the second and third

-refrigerate for 15 min

-did the fourth turn

-refrigerate for 15 min

-cut the dough into two part

-roll each dough into crescent shape

-proof for 1 hour

-bake at 210 C for 10 min and 180 for 15 min

 

any thought would be much appreciated,thanks !

lazybaker's picture
lazybaker

Mine gets like that when the dough is on the soft more hydrated side, when I end up adding a little too much water and when I don't bake them long enough at a lower temperature.

I think I solved that problem by adding just enough water until the dough is as firm as malleable butter. So I prefer using a dough that is on the lower hydration side. Whenever the dough is on the soft moist side, I end up with flattish croissants, no distinct layers, and moist interior. 

You have to develop some gluten with the dough, too. I noticed that the croissants get better expansion when the triangles are somewhat elastic or rubbery. When I stretch the triangle, it's a tad elastic. I get better expansion and height. Whenever the triangles are too slack when I stretch them out to shape, I don't get good expansion.

 

PastryPaul's picture
PastryPaul

Many well-known and well-respected bakers prefer underdeveloping the dough under the logic that further development will happen during rolling out and folding. While that is certainly true, I don't share that preference. 

Up here, (Montreal area) we like a croissant with some "tooth" to it. Generally, very flaky, explode-into-crumbs croissants do not sell well. We develope the dough fully before beurrage. It will develope more during folding, but that's fine with us.

Also, we do a double and a single fold giving us the equivalent of 2.5 folds and slightly less layers. We also bake at 425F (about 220C) and leave it there. In our oven that takes about 16 minutes total. Our ovens can't reduce temp easily (they're still hot an hour after shut down.) I can't quite see the outside of your croissants, but they seem to be a little light in color (at least for us, different markets, different needs.)

Here's a thing I find interesting. Two locations have sheeters, while the third does not. We have found that a little less development helps more when hand rolling. Frankly, I expected the opposite.

Cheers

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

Occasionally, posts here on TFL (and I've been guilty more than once) tend to have a "carved in stone by the finger of God" feel, as if the poster were delivering the received truth after coming down from the mountain top.  You have managed to not only deliver sound technical information but to provide a context for it, too.  That allows the rest of us a better understanding of the points you make.  Since so much of what we do as bakers, whether at home or in the shop, is influenced strongly by our immediate environments, it is important to know the back story for recommendations or observations that are offered.

Again, thank you.

Paul 

grind's picture
grind

Also, we do a double and a single fold giving us the equivalent of 2.5 folds and slightly less layers.

What do you mean, PP?  Is that one book fold and one letter fold?  Am I right?  I too like a little tooth with my croissant.  Cheers.

PastryPaul's picture
PastryPaul

Cheers

PaddyL's picture
PaddyL

I let my croissants rise for 2 to 3 hours, until they're really quite puffy.  And I'm also in Montreal.

krippen.knittle's picture
krippen.knittle

I think I partially would agree that the problem is with the final proof, except that no amount of proofing on a countertop or in a proofing cabinet will achieve the lift of the 'final pop' of the first 10 to 15 minutes in a hot oven, (and overproofing can produce too much yeast in the flavor profile for some tastes) which is why your recipe begins baking at 210º and ends at 180º. If you don't want them too much darker but they're not getting done, (and this is how I bake them out all the time, too) you can just start at 220º for the first 10 to 15 minutes instead of 210º, then move on down to 180º for the final baking time. Of course, I know you already know that you never open the door during that first 10 to 15 minutes of rise/bake or the poof is lost. Best of luck!

Baking Enthusiast's picture
Baking Enthusiast

hi thanks for the response

i've baked another batch of croissants

 

i've tried to lower the hydration into 55 %

doing three bookfold

and bake at 220 C for 10 min and 180 for 15 min

 

and the result,well..

it looks fine for me on the outside

but the inside part

the inside is still wet and somehow smells like raw dough

 

any thoughts?

 

vavo's picture
vavo

Hi,

I would extend the final proofing time - as somebody mentioned before: at a low temperature to keep the layers. Since the dough is fairly cold from its time in the fridge, final fermentation might be very slow.  The screenshot from "Baking Artisan Patries and Breads" illustrates it nicely: the center is not as dense in a properly proofed croissant (right side):

 

I hope it helps and I am curious to read what of all the feedback brought the desired result!

lazybaker's picture
lazybaker

Three bookfolds-- you mean the fold that creates 4 layers for each bookfold?

I do the 3 bookfolds, too. However, people keep saying the recommended 3 turns (3 layers per turn). How thick are you rolling the dough? The reason I use 3 bookfolds because I get the butter layer thin enough as not to melt and pool during baking. I guess I'm not good at rolling or not strong enough. If I do the 3 turns, I get butter pooling and somewhat thick dough and butter layers. The more turns, the thinner the butter layer gets. The thinnest I could get the dough is down to 1/4" or about 1cm thick.

Try baking the croissants a bit longer, like an additional 5 minutes and see. It should feel light when you pick them up. I agree that croissants right out of the oven will be moist inside. 

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Baking Enthusiast,

Have you verified that your oven temperature is accurate, using an oven thermometer?

Best wishes

Andy

gerhard's picture
gerhard

How long was the dough in the fridge the first time?

Gerhard

FlourChild's picture
FlourChild

These still look a bit pale and it sounds like the center could be underbaked.  If you have an instant read thermometer, take the temp of the center of a croissant when you think they are done baking, it should be over 200F.  

The other thing to check is the ambient temperature for your final proof- if it's too warm the butter will melt into the flour and destroy your layers.  Keep in mind that the temp inside the croissant will be slightly higher than the ambient temp due to heat created by fermentation.

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

Two things come to mind.  First, I would not go beyond three folds.  You can read and see photo examples in the Baking Artisan Pastries & Breads by Ciril Hitz,  that show the degradation that takes place beyond three folds.  Secondly I would most definitely check your oven temperature with a thermometer and possibly move the croissants to a lower oven rack unless you are already at the bottom.

Other then the little glitch that you are experiencing, those are very nice looking croissants.

Jeff

Baking Enthusiast's picture
Baking Enthusiast

Hi guys

i've baked another batch of croissant

i've increased proofing time to 2,5 hours, and the ceter part properly expand (thanks vavo)

it shows a little improvement i think but the main problem still remain, the interior is somehow still moist-wet

is it normal for freshly baked croissant to have a moist interior?

@gerhard : i put the dough for several hours (5 to 6 hours)

@andy,flourchild,and Jeff : i dont have oven thermometer,it is quite hard to find that in my place

                                                do you mean that my oven might be a little cold?

 

and from the picture,another thing come to my mind.

why does my croissant tend to have a thick layer compared to the one submitted by vavo?

 

 

gerhard's picture
gerhard

Whenever I have seen croissant production the dough used to make up product was made the previous day, your bulk fermentation is basically taking place at refrigerator temperatures so maybe the dough just hasn't fully matured.  I know that when I haven't allowed enough time for the bulk fermentation the results were a doughy (is that a word?) product in both yeast raised donuts and bread.

Gerhard

grind's picture
grind

The last batch I made took 6 or 7  hours (can't remember exactly) of ambient proofing before the croissants became jiggly and ready to bake.

 

PastryPaul's picture
PastryPaul

... is it normal for freshly baked croissant to have a moist interior?

Frankly, I wasn't sure about the answer, so I waited until right now, when a batch of croissants were coming out of the oven, so that I could check.

The answer is, "Yes," assuming they are still piping hot. The steam escapes as they cool and the insides pretty much dry up.

BTW: It's usually not a great idea to cut things up immediately from the oven.

Cheers

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Baking Enthusiast,

There could well be other issues, but if you are baking your croissants for as long as 25 minutes [I bake mine hot, and aim for 15 minutes baking time] and they are still wet and doughy in the middle, then I suggest the most likely fault is that your oven is not hot enough.   Oven thermometers become an essential gadget in this situation as you can immediately verify whether or not your oven temperature is correct...and you can place it in different parts of your oven to check how evenly distributed the heat is too.

If you cannot find such a gadget in a nearby shop...and they are reasonably commonplace in a decent cookware shop, then surely you can buy one online.   They cost very little, and in your case, could be a simple solution to your problem.

Best wishes

Andy

Baking Enthusiast's picture
Baking Enthusiast

baked another batch today

not much different from the last one

i left the baked croissant for a couple of hours and slice them

the interior is quite dry (not dry completely though) and expand properly

all i have to fix now is the texture of the crumb,because i cant get proper honeycomb shape yet

i'll try to left the dough overnight next time

oh,and i already got an instant read thermometer,cant wait to use it ! :)

 

yjbus's picture
yjbus

ur using too much butter.  

 the magical ratio in almost every croissant recipe I've calculated is 7.5 oz four: 4.1-4.2 oz of rolled in butter.

 

 

AdelK's picture
AdelK

I won't claim to be a croissant expert but I have made them quite a few times now. Have you re-evaluated the hydration % of your detrempe? (or in English, the dough prior to incorporation of butter)? It should feel just slightly sticky but by no means sticking onto your hands.

Otherwise I agree with the vavo regarding a longer proofing time. The best way to judge is by shaking the tray gently and the croissants should jiggle. In addition you should start to see the layers separating when theyre fully proofed.

Here is a picture of the last batch of croissants I made

Do keep us posted on how your next batch turns out.

Regards

Kong

Baking Enthusiast's picture
Baking Enthusiast

Hello guys

sory it took so long for me to get back to this thread

so i have baked another batch of croissant esterday and today

and here is the result

Yesterday's croissant 

Today's croissant 

 

i'm happy with today's result but somethings bugging me

both yesterday's batch and today's batch are using the same ingredient

the only different is the methodof proofing the yeast

for yesterday's batch,i proofed the dough overnight and laminate the dough the next day
and proceed to final proof right away for 1,5 hours

for today's batch, i proofed the dough for 1 hour then laminate the dough ,and then i let the laminated  dough rest overnight
the final proof is 1,5 hours

same ingredients,yet different results

any thoughts?

 

oh and thanks for all the replies,really appreciate it

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

Your varied results are a result of your varied techniques as described in your post.  Ingredients are very often a secondary factor after the techniques employed in the process.  This is not to say that ingredients are not important as they are and I always use the best ingredients available.  Making a great product requires quality ingredients and good technique....you seem to have conquered these requirements as the croissants look wonderful.

Jeff

grind's picture
grind

If you proof them longer, they'll be even better than they are now.  1.5 hours seems rather quick, considering the richness of the dough and also how cold the dough is.  Just a thought.

Dancing Baker's picture
Dancing Baker

Liminate 3 times first layer with butter 10-12 inch from a square corners to centre. 20 mins rest in freezer between layers. next layers as normal 3 times. Leave in fridge over night then roll as normal cut into triangles with nic. add filling if desired and bake as you would. Longer the danish is in the fridge the better so I make the day before I want to make fresh croissants. Delicous! Hope this helps and most of all have fun! :-) now I'm hungry loooooool