The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Kaiser Roll Help

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Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

Kaiser Roll Help

I made Kaiser Rolls for the first time yesterday, the recipe was from Peter Reinhart's Bread Baker's Apprentice.  I used a Kaiser Roll Stamp to make the classic pattern on the top of the rolls.  According to the instructions, you pre-shape into balls, then stamp them and then let them raise stamp side down for 45 minutes and then flip them over and let them raise until doubled and then bake.  When they came out of the oven I was a little disappointed in the appearance.  Instead of being nicely rounded, mine were kind of pointy in the centers.  Can anyone point out what I did wrong?  The stamp cut all the way thru the ball.  Should I have not pressed that hard?

 

Thanks for any help.  Next time I may try the alternate shaping method (Knotted Rolls) or the recipe from Inside the Jewish Bakery and the shaping method from there.

 

Dwayne

linder's picture
linder

I think you may need to press harder - almost thru the dough.  Check out this thread for more info -

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/3118/kaiser-cutter-experience

Happy Baking

Linda

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

Linda,

 

Thanks for the link.  Looking at one of the pictures I see that Floyd's rolls look similar to mine.  I pressed the stamp all the way thru the dough.  It looks like one of the other hints may be what I need.

 

Thanks again, Dwayne

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

after shaping into balls.  Then it might stretch better with the press.  I would rest 5 to 10 min. and see what that does.

jcking's picture
jcking

Here's a tip from a professional baker taken from the Bread Bakers Guid of America Yahoo Group

"before you stamp the roll let it proof (room temp) for 75 % and then give it another 25 % of the proof after stamping.
kees doctor, utopia bakery cafe"

Jim

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

Jim,

 

Thanks for the tip.  I'll be writing these tips in the book margin.

 

Dwayne

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

because the reason for flipping the roll upside down in the first place is to keep the folds together in a spiral.  If no folding is done and a stamp is used, the upside-down rise becomes just an extra step.    The reason the stamp is so popular, it cuts out a hand made step.  

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

Mini,

 

I like your idea of letting the rolls proof before stamping.  I'll try that next time.  You alway have good advice.

 

Thanks, Dwayne

Home Baker's picture
Home Baker

Even though following the methods of Inside The Jewish Bakery resulted in a less than perfect Kaiser roll, I was still delighted with them. I kept researching and experimenting until I eventually learned to make a version of the "Emperor's bread" that became a true favorite.

Forming instructions I found here ( "Le pain Empereur") were easier to follow and more precise than I found anywhere else. White rye flour (not rice flour) for dusting, and following Norm Berg's (or maybe Stan Ginsburg's?) advice to be generous with dusting flour and careful about proofing seemed to have been the keys to achieving the perky, crown-like form, thin but still crunchy crust, and distinctive coloration seen in the best examples.

I will say that no matter how many times I've made them I've never gotten anywhere near fast enough at hand-forming the rolls that I can imagine knocking out 200 of these in the final half-hour of the busy Jewish Baker's shift, as described in Norm and Stan's book. 

Have fun with them!

Sam

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

Sam,

 

Thanks for this link.  I'll have to study and compare it to Inside The Jewish Bakery,  the method looks to be pretty close.  Those were some stunning rolls on the link.

 

Dwayne

Barefoot-Baker's picture
Barefoot-Baker

I've found that rather than stamping the dough, the following method produces excellent results

Shaping the Rolls .
Divide the dough into pieces, weighing about 2 1/2 oz (60g) each. Roll each piece into a ball, cover with a damp cloth, and let them rest for about 5 minutes.

To make the final shape place each ball on a well-floured surface, and press them into flat circles, about 1/8 inch thick. Let rest for about 5 minutes. Stretch each piece a bit, until a circle about 4 inches across is formed. Fold edges toward the center in a 5-piece rosette for each piece. Finish by pressing the center down to secure the folds.

Spray the folded surface of each roll with water, flip it, and place it into a dish containing poppy seeds. Remove the roll, and place it, poppy seeds down onto a piece of parchment paper. Let rise for another hour.

Baking
Preheat the oven to 425°F. Put a pan with 6 or 7 ice cubes in the oven to generate steam. Spray the rolls with water, and place them on tiles in the oven

Bake for about 5 minutes, and remove them from the paper. Turn the rolls over, spray them with water, and bake for about 10 minutes more; until the rolls are golden-brown . Change their position in the oven after about 5 minutes to assure uniformity.:

NOTE: an excellent series of drawings     showing how to make the 5-piece rosettes      can be found in "Secrets Of A Jewish Baker" by Joseph Greenberg 

 

 

plevee's picture
plevee

of the real right way by the late, great Norm Berg on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX9vAUb9y7I

Barefoot-Baker's picture
Barefoot-Baker

I watched the video, and I'm sure it works. BUT, it looks like a lot more work than I'm willing to, or have, put into it. I just follow Greenberg's directions, and produce great results.       

taurus430's picture
taurus430

I agree, it is a lot of work but what is "Greenberg's directions"?

taurus430's picture
taurus430

I've attempted these  various times trying different methods. I think your rolls look very good! I have the stamp too, but I didn't like the way they came out. You're not suppose to cut all the way through with the stamp from directions I've seen. The last batch I just made knotted per instructions on the web. I prefer not to turn them over for the final rise, then you have to handle them to much and I prefer not to.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

After you remove your thumb let edge of the dough pocket roll inside a little bit when tucking in the last "ear" of dough so that you get a double dough layer over that "ear."    

Park them upside-down so the roll doesn't open itself.  

One also doesn't have to bang the table and make lots of noise.   

Barefoot-Baker's picture
Barefoot-Baker

The question "What is "Greenberg's directions" demands an answer. It is my faulty memory of an author's name. The book I was referencing is George GreenSTEIN's "Secrets of a Jewish Baker". I do apologize for the mis-statement. His directions, however, and the diagrams accompanying them are excellent.

No, you really don't need a lot of "klopping" to make the folds, and, "yes" the final tuck is the key. I just finished another dozen rolls, and the side of my hand is not even tender. The rolls turned out great!