The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Making a coiled Brotform

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nightofjoy's picture
nightofjoy

Making a coiled Brotform

Despite reading the problems people have had on here trying it, I want to make my own Brotforms - inlined, coiled type.

I'm intending to use cane, rather than plastic.

Problem is, non of the threads on here seem to have images, or maybe they're not opening on my browser? I'm looking for some detailed tutorials on 'how to'. No luck so far on youtube.

Any ideas? Thanks.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

seems logical.  I believe making these specialized baskets is a blind cottage industry.

 

nightofjoy's picture
nightofjoy

Yep, I kind of gathered that, but I thought someone somewhere may have posted something. After all, everything else seems to be on you tube, regardless how far out it may seem.

 

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

With cane reeds, etc.

That's what it really is, maybe?

tomsbread's picture
tomsbread

Made a couple 5 years ago for the fun of it before I ordered from Birnbaum (www.herbert-birnbaum.de)

All you have to do is soak the cane in water to make it pliable. Nail them together with steel nails or stapled under the heat of a heat-gun. The cane will hold its shape as the heat drives moisture out of the cane. I did not have a heat gun back then and bent the cane on my kitchen stove.

http://tomsbread.blogspot.sg/

 

nightofjoy's picture
nightofjoy

Hey, thanks fo rthe input. Couple of questions.

Which end do you start? I'll have a wooden form made to build the bowl around, now it would make sense to have the form upside down and start wrapping the cane going from a large coil at what will be the finished bowl's lip, getting smaller, pinning and tightening as you go, but then when you get to the centre of the bowl's base you're gonna struggle fitting in the tight final coils to the centre.

If you start with the centre of the bowl's bottom, with the tight coil, getting larger & larger, would you need to secure the centre to the bottom of the wooden form for stability? In my head it feels like it would be a real struggle getting those first coils to start coming up the sides without the base being fixed. And once the base is done, do you turn the form & bowl base right way up and pin the cane & tighten as you come up the sides?

Hope this makes sense. All you guys have been a real wealth of information :D

tomsbread's picture
tomsbread

I started at the center of the Brotform. Taper one end of the cane so that the thinned ends can coil around itself more tightly. You can do this by twisting the tapered ends with a pair of pliers under the heat. It will help if you have a commercially made one as an example. I made mine withouit a form and did the bending, nailing by feel. The base will be flat for a few coils before it takes off to form the sides. Thats where you need to take care of  the pitch of the rising. The pitch will decide the final diameter of the Brotform.

The form will probably help in determing the final diameter of the Brotform. With applied heat, the cane will hold whatever shape it has been bent into, so it will be stable. As the coil gets larger, the degree of bending is actually lesser and is easier to control and nail.

 

 

nightofjoy's picture
nightofjoy

Brilliant, thanks. Feeling much more confident now. Looking forward to getting started in the new year :D

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

is used in German to describe cane.  Wiki mentions peddigrohr as being rattan with the outside skin removed whereas rattan retains the outer skin.  That rattan is a vine makes sense as these baskets are often one continuous coiled cane.  I have seen 2.5 cm staples (guessing) used as well as brass or stainless nails.  Steam, soaking or hot air gun would be employed to soften the cane for bending.   Some basics with nails and hammer might also be used.  Dulling the nail tips to prevent splitting might also be helpful.  Where to find cane might be more difficult.    

Not sure if you should start with the outside edge and work to the inside (no nails to be seen) or middle first and work to the rim (visible nails heads.)    Looking carefully at a banneton might be helpful. 

nightofjoy's picture
nightofjoy

Ok, cool, that's more helpful, thanks :D

Marty's picture
Marty

Here is a video that shows how to make a paper coil basket. It seems to me this may be how you maybe would start out and build the brotform. Instead of glue you would use metal fasteners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp-AOV45_y8

SCruz's picture
SCruz

Reed is what you're looking for. It's easy to find. I'm a basketmaker and get mine from Gratiot Lake. If you don't have the right stapling tools you could do it as an open core basket and use fake sinew or waxed flax for the binder. It's not as easy to make as it ought to be. Good luck.

Jerry

grind's picture
grind

If my memory serves, I believe there was a member on the Sourdough.com website that made a coiled basket.  Might be worth doing a search.

laurielrh's picture
laurielrh

I have made them. Size 8 round reed works the best.  It is small enough to be soaked but large enough to hide staples and nails. To date, I have only done small rounds  but have intensions of making some large and, perhaps an oval.  I get all materials from Perkins in New Haven,CT.  They have a website and are delightful people.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and look for some kind of wood block that fits in a vice and a bowl shape, something sturdy to work on.  If say an inverted bowl nailed down with two extra nails (not driven all the way in) on the bottom to hold and catch the first curve of cane.  Then work using the bowl as a guide to line up the coils as you pistol and nail them down.  Don't know what is easier, working on the inside or the outside of a bowl shape. 

nightofjoy's picture
nightofjoy

I'd imagine the outside would be the only way possible. I'll be having wooden forms made up by a carpenter friend to work around.

nightofjoy's picture
nightofjoy

Also, I may be being dumb here, but what does 'pistol' mean? : )

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

like a high powered blow drier with lots of heat.  Heat gun.  As a verb, heat.

nightofjoy's picture
nightofjoy

Ahhhhh. I see..