The Fresh Loaf

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Applause to TFL and Sour Rye with Pistachios

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golgi70's picture
golgi70

Applause to TFL and Sour Rye with Pistachios

I love TFL and visit often.  As a professional baker I've learned a lot through the use of TFL.  I am accustomed to dough dividers, commercial mixers, large shaping tables, and when lucky top notch steam injected deck ovens.  Now I used to do a lot of home baking/cooking but it has become less and less as I continue working in the industry (I know very sad).  So I've made it a point to get back to my favorite hobby even on my time off.  Here is where my applause comes in.

I see some absolutley fantastic bread made on this site.  All of which is made in home kitchens with wonderful innovations to bring your bread to the professional level.  What I've found is this is not easy.  Its a whole seperate set of skills that need to be learned and adapted too.  I'm fortunate that the forumla and working with dough is familiar to me.  I do have to learn to use my small kitchen space and my home oven assisted by pizza stones,  dutch ovens, ice cubes etc...   

I'm just very impressed and happy to be a part of the community.  

Might as well share the bread I baked yesterday.  (Still not sure how I feel about the pistachios, I think its good)

 

Sourdough with Rye and Pistachios (about 77% hydration)

Sponge

25    g             100 % starter (My starter is fed once daily and kept in a retarder, so its a sour starter)

100  g            Stone Ground Rye (I use fresh ground Giustos)

100  g            H20 (80 degrees)

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Mix and let stand in a warms spot 6-8 hours

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Final Dough

325 g          H20 (I hold out about 10% by eye to add later in mix)

450 g          (Iused Bob's Red Mill Unbleached AP as it was what was in my house)  Bread Flour may be a better choice.

12 g             Salt   ( Iused himilayan pink salt)

75 g             Chopped Pistachios 

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1)  Mix sponge, 90% of H20, and Flour to mixing bowl and mix to shaggy dough.  Rest 30 minutes

2)  Add Salt and mix on speed one  until combined.  Turn up to medium speed and develop dough.  

3)  Once a nice dough is coming through add remaining water and mix on speeed 1 until it incorporates.  

4)  Once the dough has come back add pistachios and mix in.  (they will distribute better after S + F's)

5)  3 stretch and folds at 30 minute intervals.  Followed by 1 hour bulk ferment.  2:30 total bulk ferment.

6)  I made one large boule and proofed for exactly 3 hours before baking in my dutch oven.  

Bake at 460 with lid on for 20 minutes,  remove lid and bake 15-20 more minutes.  

This dough is not easy to work with but popped in my oven and has a wonderful structure and flavor.  I'm just wondering if the pistachios were a good add in or not for this type of bread.  Some more sampling needs to be done.  I have a picture but I don't know how to share them on here.  

 

Happy Baking to All

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

First question on this 20% rye.  Why do you divide the water (step 1) by dough mixing? I would think mixing/developing would go faster with all the water. 

I think I would grate the nuts first.

Mini

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Two reasons.  One a bit more factual than the other.  

1)  Home kitchen aid style mixers (I have a delonghi) do not mix bread dough very well.  So to be sure I get a good mix on the dough (when mixing at higher hydrations) I will hold off some of the water and develop the dough and then mix in the remaining liquid. The initial mix with a bit less water allows me to get a well developed dough without having to run the machine for 20 minutes.  

2)  I learned somewhere and this may be myth but I've been happy with the results.  If you develop your dough first and hold some of the water to add at the end it will "spread" the well developed gluten throughout.  In fact by accident while at work I miscaled the liquid for my Russian Rye and realized I needed more water and figured out how short I was (this is never fun).  In the end I got a nicer dough with better structure than when all of the water is added from the start.  

I've seen this in many different recipes by very good bakers and I can't assure which reason this is for (home mixers or dough quality) but I'm happy with the results I've had.  

I think grating the pistachios is a "grate" idea to spread them out nicely.  I've decided I do like the pistachios but will also make this bread without them in the future.  Two for one.  Rye Sour with or without Pistachios. 

Careful this dough is very slack and stuck to my couche a bit. 

 

Let me know how it goes and happy baking

Josh

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Josh,

Very good to have you on baord at TFL; welcome!

Your mixing method  is known as "Bassinage", and it is an excellent way to mix super-hydrated dough, which, as you note, is very difficult to develop. Dan Wing discusses this method in the excellent "Bread Builders" book on pp. 9-10.   It was a method first developed as the easiest way to hand mix large quantities of dough by hand in a dough trough, ie. pre-dating mechanisation.   Given you are using a rye sour and your dough is mixed close to 78% hydration, I agree that your choice of mixing methods is a good one.   I always use this method when mixing Ciabatta dough: mix initially to 68% hydration, then let it down to 85%.

For photographs, there is some good advice in the FAQs section - see tabs at the top of the TFL pages.

All good wishes

Andy

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Hi, Josh! And welcome to TFL.

Toasting the pistachios will bring out more flavor. I agree with mini on grating the nuts. 

This must be a great every day bread, Josh. Sharing pictures is easy, there are posts that explain the process in detail, just use the search botton on the top left.

We are glad when another professional baker joins the community.

Khalid

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I use pistachios in bread is because I love the green color in the crumb.  The bread just looks so much more delicious and taste hits the eyes first - way before the tongue!  I would just double the amount of nuts if I was going to grate half of them.  That way the great and prized green color comes through too.  I have been known to cut them in half though when my apprentice isn't looking :-)

Welcome to TFL

golgi70's picture
golgi70

I considered toasting them first as I do with other nuts in bread but I chose to leave them alone here.  I thought the amount of nuts was perfect in the end.  I've attempted and succesfully shared photos once here but I don't maintain that photo site I had to sign up for to do so.  Maybe one day we'll just be able to add pics to our messages.  

 

Josh

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

any message on TFL and you donlt need any site to do so.  Just hit the tree icon and follow the pop ups and you can upload a picture directly from your computer.

golgi70's picture
golgi70

http://s1223.beta.photobucket.com/user/golgi70/media/022_zps5dcb5632.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Found the site with photos and I'll actually start using it so i can share some pics.  Hopefully the above is the Rye Sour with pistachio

Bassinage sounds familiar and I'll make it a point to remember.  Along with making high hydration doughs easier to mix though I have heard holding 10% of the water to add later kind of spreads the gluten throughout.  I cannot prove this but once again I am happy with the results.  

 

Josh

golgi70's picture
golgi70

PS 

I tried the tree icon a few times and it said upload failed.  Photo is from an iphone and may be too large?  

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

PC quality or VGA pictures.  Too many k's, not to mention megapix's and your pictures will fail t0 upload.  Took me a while to figure out how to reduce the qulity on my Nikon cheapo camera to get them to upload.