The Fresh Loaf

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Walnut and Dried Apricot SD Loaf test

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JOHN01473's picture
JOHN01473

Walnut and Dried Apricot SD Loaf test

The walnut and dried apricot loaf was made to test out some techniques. I will compare it to the same loaf I made last week.

This dough got the whole works - autolyse - mixed until I got a good gluten window - proofing prior to refrigerating. Retarding overnight in the fridge.

These pictures show the progress and slight growth that I was expecting.
The progression from "mixed post autolyse" to "bulk ferment prior to retarding over night" and then finally "post retarding".

This morning I removed the walnut and apricot dough from the fridge
It warmed up nicely and was bulk proofed in the airing cupboard at 70-80f for 2 hours. When it took it out of the proving bag it was breathing in and out - hope there is no alien inside. There were certainly bubbles in the dough as I knocked it back. It was then knocked back and shaped and it went into the baking tin inside a proving bag into the airing cupboard at 11.15am for its final proofing. This is a new larger tin; it is 12 inches long x 6 inches wide x 2 1/2 inches deep.

It got its final proofing. I checked it after 1 hour and it had started to move up the tin, after another hour it was almost level with the top of the tin.
I wanted to get a nice dome on the top. After the third hour the dome I wanted was there.

I pre-heated the oven to 330c- my oven is a fan type with a max temp of 240c.
I have a pan in the bottom of the oven to create steam.
I slashed the loaf and baked it for 15 minutes with steam - then 15 minutes without steam
At the end of 30 minutes I tapped the bottom of the loaf for the hollow sound
I turned off the oven but left the loaves in the oven with the oven door ajar for another 10 minutes.
I cooled it on a rack

Then i cut a slice.

The best slice, yep better than last weeks loaf.

I have to say that I was very sceptical about the value of additional techniques. The result was amazing and so different and much better than the loaf I made last week. This loaf is much lighter and has a definite bounce. The crust has a crunch to it and the crumb is very soft. The taste of the sourdough has developed more - Simply it is delicious.

As I did so many new things I can't tell which technique delivered what, so my extended test will hopefully show me which techniques deliver what.

John.

 

 

Comments

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

a nice tasting loaf of bread John.  This is so much better than your last loaf of this bread.  It's great to see the improvement.

I think the loaf is over proofed though and you didn't get the oven spring, bloom and domed top you will get the next time.   Next time, let the dough rise to just above the lip of the pan by a half inch instead of letting it get so high.  It sounds counter productive but I think you will like the outcome better still.

Can't wait tosee the next one.

Nice baking

JOHN01473's picture
JOHN01473

Thanks,
Yes the oven spring is not there. This is a new baking pan, larger than my old 2lb ones so I was not sure where the rise should have been to.

I will prove it to where you say next time.

The original recipe does not have the overnight retard in the fridge; maybe it was not right for this type of loaf. Should i leave it out next time?

John

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

and, as you said, helped the sour taste.   You might want to make 2 loaves next time ,  1 with the bread coming just to the top of the pan in the middle and then one 1/2" over to see which one you like best.  The next bake will tell the tale I'm guessing.  I usually bake them at the same time by pulling one out of the fridge say at least a half hour or 45 minutes before the other one so it has a head start to get to the 1/2" as the other just hits the top of the pan.

You are almost there.  Nice going.

JOHN01473's picture
JOHN01473

It makes a lot of sense what you and Janet have said.
I baked two wholemeal sourdoughs today.
The dough had  1 hour autolyse - two hours bulk proof prior to shaping for  - they were finally proofed and baked in 2 LB tins.

They got steamed for 25 minutes at 220C - they sounded nicely hollow when i tapped the bottoms and they feel much lighter.
I think the final proofing may have been too much as time got a little away from me, but I did get some oven spring.
The crust is nicely developed
They are now cooling on a rack - I will cut one later to check the crumb and spring and add the pictures.
John

 

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

so it would be a shame if they weren't equally as nice on the inside.  They do look a little pale but can't remember what temperature you were baking them at.  No slashing this time?

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Hi John,

Yes, I can see that shortening the proof time did result in the spring improving in this batch.  I am thinking you could use a bit more dough in your pans too maybe?

I think the pale crust color comes from the long fermentation so the sugars that create the darker crust aren't there when it comes time to bake.  (You can read about this in Bread as I am sure JH goes into what takes place during the baking process.)  To get a darker crust, if you want, you might add a bit of diastatic malt and see if that changes anything.  Or, as Mr. D suggested, you can increase the temp. and see what happens there....

Just a few things to play around with as it appears you have this method down pat!

Take Care,

Janet

JOHN01473's picture
JOHN01473

Hi Janet,

Confession time.
I think time was not on my side - Saturday is too busy a day to be baking really, but we were out of bread for tomorrow. I was pondering whether a 2lb tin is too small for 2lb of dough - I was thinking of using my new larger tins. I went with the smaller tins and that is why I thought they were over proved and panicked and baked them before the oven was fully up to temperature.
the next time i will go for the full works - autolyse - bulk proof - retard overnight in the fridge - proofing prior to shaping. i will take pictures and post the results.

Take care,
John

 

JOHN01473's picture
JOHN01473

Yes they are a little pale; the wholemeal flour I used is very light in colour.
They were baked at 220c with some steam for 25 minutes.
My oven is a fan.
Normally if a recipe calls for 220c with my oven I deduct 10c and set mine to 210c, but for bread I would stick to setting it to 220c, as that does not feel too hot.

Time was not on my side and I forgot to slash the tops.

When I cut the loaf the crust was perfect and inside is very soft -

definitely the softest I have ever baked. When squashed downwards it bounces back to shape.
The taste is not as well developed; you would not know it was a sourdough.
I wonder if this is because it was not retarded in the fridge overnight. Next time I will retard one loaf as a comparison.
The tin I used is a 2lb size - the dough weighs just over 2lb.
I did think of using the larger tins as in the smaller tin the dough was not much below the top of the tin.
I think next time I will either use the larger baking tin or go back to free baking them on a stone as a Boule.

Any advice on temperatures and times would be appreciated.

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Hi John,

Time - You will just have to experiment with your oven since all ovens vary in how they heat and bake.  Looks like your temp. was fine for a lean dough.

Bottom line taken from Hanseata:  Flavor rules :-) and it sure sounds like your loaves are tasty and getting eaten up.

Take Care,

Janet

 

JOHN01473's picture
JOHN01473

Hi Janet,
Yes I will have to try some different things with oven and try to master knowing when things are proofed and not over proofed.

The batch of dough that I retarded was ok until I over proofed prior to retarding in the fridge and I ended up the next day with a mass of goo. I guess that the dough was exhausted. You said you modify the starter for retarding, please can share the changes you make.
Take Care,

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Hi John,

When I retard my loaves I use 15% pre-fermented flour (Of total flour in the formula) during the cool months.  

When the weather is warmer I use 13% pre-fermented flour. 

Your percent will be different because you use store bought flour which behaves differently than my freshly ground grains.

Like most everything with bread....you will have to experiment a bit to see what works for you in your kitchen.  You now know how much is too much.  :-)  Try backing off by maybe 25% and see where that takes you.

Good Luck,

Janet

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

preheating at 250 C for 10 minutes past the time the oven gets to 250 C  with the steaming apparatus in.  Then load the bread in bake with steam for 12 minutes  turning the oven down to  238C after the bread has been steaming for 2 minutes.  At 12 minutes remove the steaming apparatus and  turn down the oven to 225 C to finish - about 15 minutes rotating the pans 180 degrees every 7 1/2 minutes or so until the center of the loaf gets to 96 C.

If you can turn your fan off for the preheat and steam bake that would be great and then turn the fan on after the steam comes out.

That should do the trick to get some more color on those fine loaves of yours.

Almost forgot.  Depan the  bread and bake it directly on the oven rack for the last 7 1/2 minutes. 

If you have a stone you can put it on the rot rack to get some extra heat coming in from the top too.

Happy baking

JOHN01473's picture
JOHN01473

Thanks - I will take what you have said and put it into my spreadsheet timings section.

As I said to Janet, I am not confidant knowing when things are proofed or over proofed. I kind of stick to double in size, but that does not seem quite right. Any guidance would be great.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

80 - 85% rise and then bake.  Thankfully this is easy to judge when the bread is panned.  Doubling usually means it is over proofed for most doughs but not all.  Some need t0 triple.  But for most SD breads 80 -85 is the way to get good spring and bloom in the oven.

I think you will get all to come together next time.  It takes a few bakes to get it right and build confidence.

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Hi John,

I agree with Mr. D.  This looks like a great tasting loaf.  I also agree with his evaluation of it being over proofed.  I try to stick to the 75% rule when proofing my loaves....Only let them proof 75% and then bake to get oven spring.  Sometimes I do less and get a bigger oven spring and sometimes I go over due to being busy and get none but the bread always turns out and people say they taste fine.

I bulk ferment loaves like this all the time.  In fact, tonight I am making stollen and it is loaded with fruit, butter and milk.  It will rise at room temp.  then into the refrig.  In the morning it will be much easier to handle and the flavors will all have intensified.

I am so glad you tried this method out!  I was skeptical at first too.  I was afraid of overproofing my whole grains but was very happy with the results and haven't looked back since.  The only loaves I don't bulk ferment overnight like this are ones that have a lot of rye in them.  Those I use soakers and sours and then, in the morning I mix and bulk because they ferment really quickly.

Thanks for the posting of your results and for the photos.  

Take Care,

Janet