The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Newbie's Notes

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Jn6-35's picture
Jn6-35

Newbie's Notes

Hi, as a still-new member and still VERY new to bread making, I wanted to share some thoughts...

I'm still "wide-eyed" (as one of our members called me) about the art and science of making bread.   I took that member's advice and bought DiMuzio's text book and am devouring it slowly and carefully.   My serious learning impairment in the area of mathematics ("baker's math") notwithstanding, I can at least grasp the issues at a conceptual level.

Although it is unlikely that I will exceed the status of "rank amateur" I remain nevertheless simply passionate about this wonderful new world I have found.

I bake almost every day, and am just about ready to "graduate" from the machine to the oven (although I will continue to mix and knead in the machine for the most part).  I am only awaiting the arrival of some essential supplies from King Arthur Flour.     

Somewhere, after reading most of the major "Bread" books, and slowly making my way through DiMuzio, I have begun to develop a sense of application of general principles;  portions, ratios, percentages, ingredients (and the kinds of chemical reactions that occur between them).

I have timidly continued using Beth Hensberger's pretty much fail-safe (for the machine) recipes, although I have pored over many other classic and well-recommended books and their recipes for both machine and oven-baked bread.

Finally, today, I had an experience that really cemented (no pun intended with respect to the way the loaf turned out) all that I have learned and absorbed in these last few weeks.

I used a recipe from another (very respected) Bread book.   Although the author (Beatrice Ojakangas)  includes instructions for oven and machine baking (it is obvious that her inclination is for baking in the oven), the recipe I chose (a cheese/toasted walnut recipe) left me instantly suspicious that it would not turn out well in the machine.    Too much cheese, too much fat, too many large chunks, too little yeast, too much salt.......I just had a sense that all of these elements would contribute to an overly dense and un-risen loaf.

I prepared the recipe as written, although I did make my usual modification of adding a portion of whole wheat flour (which I always do and with which I have never previously had a problem).  

As predicted, the loaf failed to rise properly, the ingredients were poorly incorporated (chunks of cheese do not work well in the machine), and overall, the loaf was extremely dense and undercooked (machine temperatures do not reach the same level that oven temperatures do).   I think additional knead time might also have been needed.  

Although I was very disappointed in the outcome, I was truly pleased to see that I had somehow managed to internalize some of the essential principles involved in bread-making to the extent that I had an intuitive (and scientific) sense that the recipe would turn out exactly as it did.

I then pored over more texts and books and began forming modifications to the recipe that would yield a better loaf--yet another effort I will attempt tomorrow.

I have thus learned perhaps my most important lesson as a beginning amateur baker:   Making bread is not only about incorporating ingredients in a viable way.  It is more about incorporating an understanding in the mind and in the heart about how bread is made and baked.

So, although it sounds perverse to say that I was happy with my failure, in a kind of deep way, I was.   For I learned that I am learning something after all, that I am slowly grasping the essentials of bread-making.

To an advanced baker, it may seem ridiculous that a person would spend hours trying to figure out what went wrong with a recipe and then spend more hours trying to come up with a formula for righting what had gone awry. 

But to me, it meant that I am learning something.

And that, to a newbie like I am, is thrilling. 

Blessings,

Liz

 

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Next time you feel this way, add some yeast, take it out of the machine, finish kneading it by hand to incorporate the add ins, let it rise, knock it down, shape it and put it in a tin to proof and then bake in the oven at the right temperature.  You've learned much and now it is time to trust the good instincts you have developed and act on them properly knowing that you can't ever fail any worse than  you knew the machine would for this bake.

Failure and learning from it is sometimes the only way even the most successful person can see the right path next time and moving forward to solve the problem.  The one thing many successful people share is that they do more and fail more than other folks.  The difference is they learn more from their failures than others do from their successes.  It is the fear of failure that causes folks to not do things and the not doing ...... always leads to failure.  You have taken a big step and learned much about bread baking.  Your instincts can serve you well.  Have no fear.

Jn6-35's picture
Jn6-35

Bless you DaBrownman for you encouraging message!!    I thought that it might seem unusual (to say the least) that someone could actually be elated about a failure--since, for me, therein lies so much rich learning!   And I was so pleased that what I have gleaned so far from such extensive (and helpful) reading, led me to actually "successfully" predict that the endeavour would fail---even knowing that it would, I had to proceed and let it fail so I could learn more!!

I have learned in bread-making that "instincts" are tempered by real study;  learning the essence of "bakers' math" (even if I'm too learning-disabled to DO the math) and that there is an element to bread-making that one must really understand.

Before undertaking it, I had always thought of bread-making as an "intuitive" process (which, of course, it also is), but I had never understood, before starting to pore over excellent books on the subject, that bread-making is also a science, and a miraculous one at that!

I will absolutely take your recommendation (to bake in the oven) to heart, but with advanced arthritis, am not sure I can proceed with kneading by hand, although I will attempt it.    Part of the author's purpose in proposing the "chunks" of cheese was the melted chunks that would appear in a loaf with lots of holes and pockets in it.   Just not possible in the machine within the limitations of the recipe.

I am so grateful that you seem to understand and to celebrate the fact that through my failures I will learn much more than through my successes.

Since I don't yet even have a tin (I ordered a stone and a peel from KAF), --I was hoping that I could learn to shape and bake loaves directly on the stone--I will either have to order a loaf tin (which I should do for those kinds of loaves that are more suited to it)  or plunge into the art and science of shaping, of proofing in a bowl at least related to the shepe, (I probably need to get some proofing baskets) and baking on a stone, I may have to order a tin (as clearly some types of loaves are more suited to that, from what I read).    

It is all "grist for the mill" (which, speaking of that, I bought a KoMo in which to grind my own whole wheat flour and am very excited to learn all about that process---for which I bought a detailed book addressing the issue)----whatever does not work will be a chance for me to understand at an experiential level (as opposed to purely intellectual) what does and does not work.   

I anticipate many more failures in the weeks to come and I am grateful that someone is actually encouraging me to profit from failure.     Thank you so much!  

Blessings,

Liz

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I always try to get new bakers to give baking by hand a try before buying a mixer or a bread machine or anything expensive to make bread except if they are physically handicapped.   My wife has worked with mentally and physically handicapped folks for 40 years and I can find very good bread machines for sale at Goodwill so they too can enjoy making their own bread that is better than the bread they would eat from the store.  Nothing like seeing the smile on their faces when they make bread. 

Bread machines and mixers have many uses and all bread bakers, handicapped or no,  might want both of them simply for convenience and any other number of reasons.  Nothing like having fresh bread ready baked waiting in the morning.  Your arthritis might make them indispensable for you.

I don't think you should give up on the ZO either.  Even if some of the breads you make aren't suited for it, it can be a real help in mixing, kneading, proofing and baking many more breads than it can't.  After kneading you can always take it out, proof it and bake it in the oven if you want high temperatures or a different look.

I also agree that a good mixer with a dough hook would do most all of the kneading for you too.  My KA can kneed about anything as long as I keep the dough amounts down to a reasonable level and since I only bake one loaf or two small ones at a time this is no problem.  Between a mixer and and your ZO you should be able to make and bake just about anything bread wise and not aggravate your arthritis.

As for baker's math I'm sure you will get it because I'll show you and easy way to look at it and figure it out with a calculator.

Baker's math is all based on how much dough flour is in the bread.  I'm going to use grams and you should get an electronic kitchen scale that does both grams and Ounces if you don't already have one.  The dough flour, no matter how much there is, alwasy equals 100% even though it isn't 100% of everything in the bread.

Lets say you are making bagels and want 50% hydration.  That means y0u take the weight of the say flour you are using say 400 grams and multiply it by .5 (50%).  You get 200 grams of water required.  If the formula calls for 2% salt and instant yeast, take the 400 and multiply itby  .02 (2%) and you get 8 grams each for salt and yeast.  So it is just the weight of the flour times some percent to get the other amounts required for the formula.  Let's do another one.

Let'ssay you have a formula for some sunflower seed bread 

100% flour, 65% water, 1.5% salt, 3% instant yeast, 10% sunflower seeds and 5% barley malt.  Depending on how much bread you want to make, you pick how much flour you want to use lets use ounces this time - let's use  28 ounces of of flour for 2 loaves of bread.  So 28 oz is 100% of the flour.  Take 28 times .65 (65%) and you get 18.2 oz of water required.  28oz  times .015 (1.5%) and you need .42 oz of salt.  28 oz times .03 (3%) so you need .84 oz of instant yeast.  28oz times .1 (10%) and you need 2.8 oz of sunflower seeds and 28oz times .05 (5%) or 1.4 oz of Barley Malt.

Now lets say you have multiple flours - say 20% whole wheat, 40% rye and 40% AP.  The flours will always add up 100% and these do.   So in the formula above  where 100% of the flour was 28 ounces for 2 loaves of bread, in order to find out how much of each flour to use just take the 28 oz times .2 (20%) and you get 5.6 oz of whole wheat and 28oz times .4 (40%) and you get 11.2 oz required for both rye and AP.  If you add the ounces up you get 5.6+11.2 11.2 = 28 oz.

There are 454 g in a pound for conversion so there are 28.375 grams in an ounce.

So a little practice  is all it takes.

Hope this helps.

 

 

flournwater's picture
flournwater

"To an advanced baker, it may seem ridiculous that a person would spend hours trying to figure out what went wrong with a recipe and then spend more hours trying to come up with a formula for righting what had gone awry. "

Not at all.  In fact, that's perhaps the first indication that you've advance beyond what you refer to as "rank amateur".

One thing I might suggest for you to consider is finding a nice charity to which you might donate that bread machine and pick up a stand mixer to do the hard work of mixing and kneading.  Kneading by hand is fun, at least at first, but it gets old.  When you learn how to use a dough hook (its use isn't always the same with every type of bread) and read the dough as it develops you'll have made great strides toward become the "advanced bread baker", whatever that is.

Jn6-35's picture
Jn6-35

Hi, Flournwater---

I know that you are absolutely right about discasrding the bread machine and buying a really good mixer with a dough hook.   That probably will be my next purchase.   I just don't see the bread machine paddles (and I have the Zoji Virtuoso) as being capable of properly mixing and kneading some of the more complex kinds of breads I want to learn about.

I am glad to hear your encouragement about "reading the dough."   That is actually a "next" step that I need to take.  I have read widely on the subject, but now must plunge in to actually learn to "feel" the dough and to know (based on what I'm learning) how it will or will not behave.  

Just the very idea of that is amazing to me;  two weeks ago, I was afraid to touch the dough for fear that handling it would do something terrible like cause terminal deflation or something to that effect, LOL.    Truthfully, I was actually afraid to even touch it.   Now I know that learning to sense how the dough is progressing is a deeply crucial part of baking bread, and today, (in an early validation of my suspicion that the recipe would not turn out), I actually did handle the dough (in a novice attempt to better incorporate the ingredients which were flying all around the bread machine pan), to center it better and to add more water by wetting my hands and drizzling drops onto the dough (so as not to add too much water).  

I learned a lot just from this inital experience at "dough handling."    And I grew in confidence even as I anticpated (from just the feel of the dough) the failure I had accurately predicted.

I love this site for helping to support my efforts.   And truly, I am happy to be a novice, as just that, alone, provides so much richness and delight for me!   Bless you for your encouragement and very helpful suggestion about a mixer/dough hook.   That probably will be my next purchase.    In the meantime, the challenge of dealing with the limitations of the machine is also a learning opportunity for me.

Thank you so much!!

Blessings,

Liz

proth5's picture
proth5

True, it is not the right piece of equipment for mixing doughs with large inclusions, but the folks at the King Arthur test kitchens - where trust me, they can have any mixer that they want - often use the Zo's as mixers.

I find it does a lovely job of mixing small amounts of dough - even those with a measure of small inclusions.  Mine does a nice job on 100% whole wheat dough - although I would not use it to mix brioche. And I have to admit, I have a quite powerful mixer for my serious batches of bread - and I wouldn't want to be without that.

But the poor little thing does have all those other cycles (I also have the Virtuoso).  I don't know how busy your life is, but I'm coming to appreciate that I can scale something like a lemon cake - dump in the ingredients, hit start, and then get on with the 500 other things I need to do. Yes, it wouldn't be that much incremental work to mix it, bake it, etc - but some days that increment is meaningful to me.

So unless you are in some way space bound or philisophically opposed to thaving two things that perform similar functions, you might just as well consider keeping it. (Nice for summer, too - sometimes it's nice to have bread without heating up the  oven/house.) (I've also used mine to bake stuffing or other things using the "home made" cycle)

And I'll encourage you in one more thing - really make the effort with baker's math.  It's really only baker's arithmetic. If you have a diagnosed learning disability, I apologize for pushing - but being a "girl engineer" I always find that, well, women in particular shy away from math in any form.  They shouldn't.  We would all consider it a pity if you were unable to read and write.  Numerical literacy is just as important. And we have calculators to do the grunt work - it is mostly the concepts that you need to wrap your head around.  Not only that, but once you get the arithmetic part mastered, you will have in your command a useful tool for understanding and creating bread formulas - and that's what really counts - that you have mastered a tool.

Good luck with your future baking and milling!

Bohemian Mama's picture
Bohemian Mama

I was reading, and nodding and reading and nodding and   admired your tenacity and openess and ablity to verbalise what so many of us newbies  often feel.

The bread journey is amazing and  getting your artesian on..  well done.. I also often knead in the  breadmaker, it  makes  crap loaves, but I knead and then I can use the  rise in the fridge method to enable me to bake on my terms. Rather than stuck to the 3am cos thats when my sourdough is ready always!!

 

Good luck

Jn6-35's picture
Jn6-35

Oh, thank you so much Bohemian!  If I have captured something on behalf of all Newbies, then I am very satisfied.  Being a novice at anything has its pitfalls and challenges, but the experience of learning something as filled with wonder as bread making is, makes all of the difficulties simply a further part of the pleasure we find.   There is something miraculous about the chemistry of baking---that such elemental ingredients--water, flour and microorganisims (yeast) whether cutured or wild, can produce something as life-sustaining and as beautiful as bread---and in such infinite variety, too!    

Blessings,

Liz

richkaimd's picture
richkaimd

Dear Newbie,

I recommended DiMuzio to you.  Your experience sounds just wonderful.  Knowing enough to have a beginning sense of things is empowering, isn't it? 

Practice, practice, and practice some more.  And keep enhaling DiMuzio and your other sources.  I, myself, have never used a bread machine, but I've heard from others that use their machines to do the initial mixing only.  They complete the mixing outside the machine and bake their loaves in the oven, whether in a bread pan or elsewhere.  It's important to learn how to test a dough for completion of kneading.  Do you know how to know when the dough is kneaded enough?  Do you know the windowpane trick?

 

 

 

Jn6-35's picture
Jn6-35

I am SO grateful that you recommended DiMuzio.  His book is amazing!!    I especially enjoyed the extensive information he provides about the cultural and historical background of bread making.    As I mentioned in another post to DaBrownMan, I think that DiMuzio has one of the most helpful set of instructions for shaping loaves (and generally working with dough).     I sneak-peeked at the upcoming chapters to see how his descriptions are.    I really do recommend his book to anyone, even someone like me who has no ambition to be anything but an amateur in love with bread-making.    The book really sets a foundation of understanding that the most humble home baker can really make use of.   

And I love your advice about practicing.    I intend to re-attempt the loaf that failed with some of the modifications that I believe will help it.   If those don't work, I'll have to keep trying this one loaf until I get it right!    I LOVE that challenge.    And no matter how long it takes to solve the problems in this one loaf, when it does turn out well, I'll feel so good and will have learned, through trial and error so much.     LOL, not to mention that I'll have a delicious loaf to enjoy...walnuts and cheese and whole wheat are a lovely combination.

Now, will you please explain what on earth a windowpane trick is????????   And no, I don't know how to tell when the dough is kneaded enough, although I know that DiMuzio (further on in the book---I haven't gotten there, yet) and some of the other books I am reading deal with that subject.    So, please tell me the windowpane trick;   it sounds intriguing.  

Blessings,

Liz

richkaimd's picture
richkaimd

...best watched on a video or done by someone who knows what to do.  Simply put, to test whether the gluten in you dough is adequately developed by your kneading, one takes a golf ball sized lump of dough, flatten it our into a circle then stretch the dough out so that the middle of the circle of dough gets as thin as you can make it, the thinnner the better.  If you can stretch it out so that it is fairly uniformly thin enough to let light through without the dough tearing, your dough's ready to rise for the first time.

Watch this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyb86ECObTM

Jn6-35's picture
Jn6-35

Hi, Rich----

I finally got to watch the video about the windowpane test.    I'm SO glad you sent me the link as it was hard to picture just from reading, but watching it, it makes PERFECT sense!    Just from watching, I could even see how flexible her dough was, what a nice texture it had.      And watching her pull and stretch the little 2 Tbs or so of the piece she cut off really showed me how to do the test.

Thank you so very much, again for referring me to DiMuzio's book and now, this little test will be yet another detail to help me on my way.    I would suspect that it wouldn't apply to doughs that are more "tacky" by nature, but it's worth it to see if it does.

Blessings and again, THANK YOU!!

Liz

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I love Alton Brown's idea that all tools should be multi-purpose. I agree wholeheartedly. Keep the machine for mixing if it does a good job of that. When it doesn't, give it to someone who would make good use of it. I often find I put a tool down for a while and later may use it for an entirely different project. Of course, my basement is presently a store room but I have the room so , what the heck.

Have great fun with that new sense of ingredients. Keep track of loaves and doughs and you will learn a lot more becasue now you have learned the concept of how to learn about bread. Good work!

Have delicious fun!

Jn6-35's picture
Jn6-35

Hi, Clazar---I share your agreement with Alton Brown's idea---he always intermingles pragmatism with delightful humor and joy, and I've gotten many great cooking ideas from reading his books and watching his shows.

As I wrote in a few other posts, I am going to keep the Zo.   It is really a lovely machine and it works very well for what it is supposed to do.  Even when I eventually develop real oven-baking skills, I'm sure I'll sometimes use the Zo for baking a loaf, just for the ease of it, and of course, I will continue to use it to mix.   Probably I will wind up buying a KA for mixing as well, but there are several other things I must buy ahead of that.   

Thank you so much for your encouragement.    I always found bread baking so intimidating---and here I am just loving every detail about this amazing and miraculous mixture of simple ingredients that almost magically turn into something so beautiful.   

Blessings,

Liz

Jn6-35's picture
Jn6-35

Hi, Proth and DaBrown!

First THANK you both for your encouragement about the math.   Proth, when I referenced being "learning disabled" I was being somewhat facetious, but not entirely.  I think that many women of my generation (baby boomers) were raised to believe that they couldn't do well at math.  That certainly happened to me.  When I was in graduate school, I was required to pass a difficult Statistics class with a grade of B+ or better in order to advance to candidacy.    I put it off as long as I could and then a month before the class was to start I sat in the Professor's office crying and complaining that there was no possible way I could EVER get through the class.   A very kind and wise man, he simply smiled and said he was certain, that with my grasp of concepts that I would not only "get" it, but do extremely well.   I absolutely did not believe him.   I have never worked harder in a class in my life, and guess what?    I pulled an A+ in that class.    I will say (without in any way arrogantly boasting) that it was one of the greatest accomplishments of my life;  I was so amazed and proud of myself.    The Prof kidded me about it for YEARS afterwards---especially as he later asked me to TA a Stats class with him, and he always introduced me as the woman who thought she could NEVER get through Stats.

So, I see math and freeze up.   I think I will get a handy-dandy calculator, too.   Way to go Proth that you're a "girl engineer."   That is so awesome!  

DaBrown---your explanation somehow REALLY helps me;  it seems clearer than DiMuzio's.  I got so bogged down in that chapter on Saturday that I had to take a rest in the middle of the chapter!!    I do think I should buy a scale so I can have the choice to really use the proper measurements.   The way you explained about the dough being 100%, and then calculating the other percentages of other ingredients (based on whatever paramaters might apply, depending on the type of bread being made) was SO CLEAR!   Maybe you should write a book!!

About the Zo.  No, I would not at all consider getting rid of it.   It is a beautiful and very functional piece of equipment and it does an excellent job of making the breads I have tried so far.  I bought it b/c I have the Zo fuzzy logic/induction rice cooker and that thing makes rice that is BEYOND perfection!   So, there was no choice about the bread machine---I went straight for the Zo, and I love it.

But I do think that in the near future I will consider buying a KA with the dough attachment, although since mixing dough is ALL I would use it for, it's a lot of money to lay out for just that.    I love gourmet cooking, but in all of these years, have never seen the need for a KA---but now, mixing dough is kind of a priority.   In the meantime, I can keep using the Zo, with the exception of certain types of dense doughs or those with large ingredients.

I will use it for mixing doughs that are appropriate to its limitations, and will, of course, at least a few times, try to knead by hand if for no other reason than to "learn" what that feels like and all of the related details about handling and working with dough.   I have really severe shoulder arthritis (which I live with rather than risk surgery), so regular kneading would not be possible for me.  

And of course, I hope to learn how to bake in the oven--how to form a loaf (DiMuzio has the BEST instructions for that I have so far come across--I peeked ahead to that chapter, LOL).  I think the temperature and humidity levels in the oven (especially if using a stone) grant much more flexibility for baking certain kinds of breads.    It's one more wonderful thing I expect to spend YEARS learning and perfecting.

Thanks to both of you for your encouragement and ideas.

 

proth5's picture
proth5

Well now that you have told your story, I know that Baker's Math will be a breeze.  The best explanation that I know (and it is a thorough explanation) is here: http://www.bbga.org/files//2009FormulaFormattingSPREADS.pdf - get through that and you will really have laid a basis for future growth.

I love my other Zojirushi appliances.  Even the water boiler - you wouldn't think that these things make a difference, but they are a joy to use.

I also come from a generation of women that was not encouraged in the more mathematical areas.  In fact, when I was handed my engineering degree it came with the comment "We didn't think that a woman would have the intellectual capacity to get an engineering degree - but you proved us wrong."  It was meant kindly at the time.

Many people dislike the Kitchen Aide mixer for bread as it puts too much strain on the motor.  I have one that has served faithfully for years to make many other things, but I have only occaisionally mixed bread in it.  You may wish to consider other mixers when the time comes. 

BTW: Which milling book did you buy?  I do my own milling and don't need a book on the subject at this point, but people keep asking me for reference books and would love to hear of other books in that area.

Happy Baking (and milling!)

Jn6-35's picture
Jn6-35

Hi, Proth----

It is amazing to hear that when you were handed your engineering degree they actually made a comment like that (about a woman not having the intellectual capacity...);  thankfully, such thinking has changed so much over the years, hasn't it.  

I will get on the site you recommend--it sounds like it will be helpful to me.

As for the Milling book:   It's called Flour Power:  A Guide to Modern Home Grain Milling, by Marleeta F. Basey, Jermar Press, Albany, Oregon, 2004

The books is often quite technical, but like with DiMuzio's book, it provides a real foundational understanding of what goes on during the milling process, and why.  It also provides a nice historal/cultural background (I always appreciate that).   She gets a little overly bogged down in the health/nutrition aspects.   Most of the people who would even buy such a book are already fairly "advanced" in that area, so she is essentially preaching to the choir.   However, if someone were hesitating to get involved with home milling due to the expense and effort, Basey's nutritioual information might just sway them to take the plunge.

My beautiful KoMo sits awaiting my shipment of Hard Red Winter Wheat from KAF;  unbelievable as it sounds, there is no store within a reasonable distance that carries organic wheat berries.   I'm hesitant to use the bulk wheat that some stores have because there is no way to determine the age of it, the quality of it, or even whether unwelcome guests might be hiding in it.     The buyer from Sprouts said that if I would be a regular customer, she would start ordering it in smaller quantities from Bob's Red Mill.

Anyway, I do recommend the book for the people who ask you about milling.   I think that even though you are very experienced in that area, you also might enjoy the book.  

If I have milling questions, I'll probably ask for your advice!!

Thanks for the tip on the KA.   Right now, it will have to wait because there are other purchases for the bread making ahead of it, not the least of which is a state of the art bread knife because I'm tired of my cheaper one tearing into loaves!

Blessings,

Liz

 

proth5's picture
proth5

that might be the book.  It is billed as the only book on home milling and that's just about right.  I own that book but was just hoping something new might have come along.

The Bread Bakers Guild of America (www.bbga.org) is a great resource for home bakers and professional bakers.  While you need to pony up some membership money to get all of the benefits, the technical articles on bakers math and formula formatting are available to all.  Their education programs have been outstanding in the past few years.

Young women are amazed at what I went through to get that degree - very few kind and understanding professors for me. A longer story than can be told here...

Happy Baking!

SteveB's picture
SteveB

Pat,

I hope you didn't have to put up with anything like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOxGRuKFwJg

"I do declare, that oscilloscope gives me the vapors!"

 

SteveB

www.breadcetera.com

 

proth5's picture
proth5

for that.  Really took me back. Believe me - if I told you some of my stories from my first job - in a steel mill... Well, I can't on a family website.

To bring this round to bread, I'll tell a short story.  "My Teacher" was giving me his/her version of a hard time during a class.  After doing doing this s/he put on a sheepish grin and said "I'm awful aren't I?"  I told a bit of my personal history and then said, "After that - you got nothing"

Again, thanks for the memories!

Pat

Jn6-35's picture
Jn6-35

Oh, my gosh, what a walk down memory lane THAT video was!   Amazing as it seems, not only is that video accurate, but if anything, it's way more benign than MOST situations were, as Pat's experiences indicate......I guess we HAVE come a long, long way!!!     I can only imagine what it must have been like working in a STEEL MILL.....with that whole ambiance.    It must have been a real nightmare.    My hat goes off to you for surviving it!! 

Blessings,

Liz