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The Rye I was Thinking Of! - Kind of

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Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

The Rye I was Thinking Of! - Kind of

Here is a type of Rye bread I found that is very close to the one I was trying to find in this previous post:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/30812/what-kind-rye-bread-am-i-thinking-about

This rye is pretty much what I was after.  Dense, dry, sturdy, stiff crumb.  It is called Klosterbrot Roggenbrot.  Here are some photos.  If anyone has a good recipe similar to this please share.  I would love to make this.

John

 

Mirko's picture
Mirko

I have german Mischbrot (30/70 - Rye/Wheat) recipe, are you interested?

Mirko

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Mirko.

Thank you for the offer.  I have no idea what a Mischbrot rye is.  I did look it up on Google and a lot of different photos came up, all looking different from each other.  I like this one the best.  So if your recipe ends up looking similar to this one, SURE, yes please and thank you :)  Hvala lepo.

 

Mirko's picture
Mirko

Here the recipe : Mischbrot 30/70 (30%Rye / 70% Wheat/Bread flour) . 2 loaves 860g. Color of the bread will be brighter if you will use medium rye or darker if use dark rye flour.

Sourdough: ripen for 14-18 h at 21°c/70°F

Medium Rye or Dark rye(better medium)......  160g (100%)

Water...... 128g (80%)

Rye Starter (100%)....... 8g (5%) If you like more sour taste use 10% starter (16g)

Total weight ...... 296g

 

Final dough:

Bread flour...... 700g

Medium rye(or Dark rye)...... 140g

Salt....... 21g

Fresh yeast....... 22g

Water....... 540g

Sourdough....... 296g

Add all ingredients to mixing bowl. Mix on first speed 8 min. and 2 min. on second speed (I don't know wich type of Mixer you have, so your's mixing time will be somewhat differently)

DDT: 26°C/78°F

Bulk fermentation: 30 min.

Divide into 2 egual parts (about 860g) and shape into desired form (I shaped into oval form and let ferment in baking pans)

Final fermentation: about 60 min. at 28°C/82.4°F or even  long at cooler tempereture.

Baking: pre-steam your oven, load bread and bake at 450°F/230-240°C for 40-50 min. Remove steam after 10-15 min and bake in dry oven. To have nice crispy crust bake last 5 min. with open door (use tablespoon to get 1 inch open).

Let cool for at least 12 hours.

Happy baking

Mirko

 

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thank you Mirko, however, I do not have fresh yeast.  What can I use instead?  I do have rye sourdough starter, but not fresh yeast.  Can I use dry active yeast?

John

Mirko's picture
Mirko

Yes, you can use active dry or instant dry yeast. I got my fresh yeast from Superstore (Canada,Manitoba).

Instead fresh yeast use:

9 g instant dry yeast or

11 g active dry yeast

To convert yeast amount I used online yeast converter:

http://www.abreaducation.com/yeast_calculator.php

Mirko

 

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Mirko.  I picked up that loaf of Klosterbrot Rye from Superstore today!  Where would I find the fresh yeast?  In what department of Superstore?

John

Mirko's picture
Mirko

I went to bakery staff and asked for fresh yest, they have 1 pound pieces for about $1,79(not sure about price, could be different in your store).

Mirko

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

nice rye bread.  Love the crust and crumb!  Needs some YW to open it up some though :-)

Nice baking!

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

dabrownman..thanks but I WISH I baked these.  The first set of photos is a store bought loaf and the other is a photo I found on the internet of a Mischbrot.

John

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Just like the Berliner Landbrot I pointed out in your earlier post.

If they call it "Roggenbrot" it HAS to have more than 50% rye.

I am sure it is a 70% medium rye / 30% wheat bread made following a Detmolder process. They also add whey. 

** UPDATE ** 

Just checked the "Leisaetze fuer Brot"

If you call a product "Roggenbrot" it has to have at least 90% rye.

I would try the following: 

Rye starter: Rye 100%, Water 100%, Mature rye sour 10%, ferment 16 hours at 28C

Dough: Rye  55%, Wheat 10%, Water 38%, Salt 2% Yeast (instant) 0.3%, rye from starter 35%, water from starter 35% (Total starter 70%)

Bulk ferment 1 hour at 28C

Final proof 1 hour 

bake very hot for 10 min (260C) then lower temperature to 210C and bake until done

suave's picture
suave

They are not required to do that - word roggenbrot has no legal meaning in North America, most people probably don't even know what it means.  What they are required to do is to list ingredients based on their content, that is the ingredient with the highest percentage comes first.  Ingredients for klosterbrot are listed as "Unbleached Wheat Flour, Natural Spring Water, Rye Flour...." meaning that it is, without a question, a predominantly wheat bread.

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Look at the pictures in there 

http://www.lefa-berlin.de/downloads/TA-Roetz.pdf

page 31

This is a classic 70% rye

suave's picture
suave

Yes, but what does it have to do with the fact that the bread in the first photo is mostly wheat?

Mirko's picture
Mirko

My recipe 'Mischbrot' or exactly name in german is 'Weizenmischbrot' (Wheatmixedbread - I know sounds stupid) is 30% rye flour and 70 % bread flour, if there is 70% rye and 30% bread flour is Roggenmischbrot (Ryemixedbread) but this is the case in Germany. But here in America or Canada you can call it no matter how.

Weizenmischgbrot(30/70) is lighter in color as Roggenmischbrot(70/30), so if I see the picture it looks like Weizenmischbrot(30/70).

I used to live in Germany for 18 years and Weizenmisch-/Roggenmischbrot were my favorites breads.

I think Juergen Krauss bread (with 70/30) will be more darker as the bread on John's picture, but this is very good recipe, is worthy to bake.

Nice greetings from Manitoba

Mirko

suave's picture
suave

I don't think that looking at crumb color is a reliable way of determining bread composition.  For example, how much rye do you see here?

 

 

Now, what about this one:

 

Mirko's picture
Mirko

I agree, just looking at crumb color is not good way to determinig bread composition, is only life experience. Iuse to live in Germany and they have a lots of various kind of breads. We use to eat almost every day Weizenmisch- or Roggenmischbrot.

Weizenmischbrot is lighter in color and the bread on  your first picture looks like Weizenmischbrot but could be any other kind of bread (Spelt bread, light spelt, or light rye bread...). Second could be wheat bred with some wohle-wheat , high-extraction flour or 40% medium rye, but I just guess.

Mirko

 

suave's picture
suave

It's not a bad guess.

Mirko's picture
Mirko

I would like to know what kind of bread is on the second picture?

Mirko

suave's picture
suave

You were not that far off on this one, it's 20% medium rye/80% hight extraction flour.

Nickisafoodie's picture
Nickisafoodie

I often make three stage bread that is 35% whole ground rye, 25% whole ground wheat, and 40% white bread flour using a 100% hydration starter - see picture below.  It is slightly darker than the second picture above by Suave due to the combined whole grain percentage of 60% (rye and wheat portion and using all of the ground flour, no sifting). 

Im a venturing a guess that the picture first shown by Song of the Baker in this post does not likely have a lot of Rye flour in it, guessing 15-20% give or take, the rest being white flour.  At 30% the breads become darker and certainly more so as you increase.  While I agree with Suave that color is not a great indicator, anything north of 30% rye will be darker than shown at the top.   Perhaps try a 25% rye 75% white flour and you can increase proportions over time. 

Another key element in the final product is taste re yeast or no yeast.  Using a 100% rye starter at 100% hydration, combined with mutliple builds can give you a subtle barely tart/sour style (using a small percentage of preferment), or a more aggressive style by using a larger portion of preferment.  

Those German bakers out there, would love to see recipes using only natural starters ranging from light to heavy rye usage, and descriptions of the names - and ideally would appreciate if anyone can point me to reference material...  thank you, and good luck.  Ryes are amazing no matter what...

 

Nickisafoodie's picture
Nickisafoodie

One more pic: 55% rye, 10% whole wheat (both fresh ground and 100% used in recipe, no sifting out of bran, etc) and 35% white flour.  It looks lighter than the one above even though it has more rye.  partly due to lighting, but is actually is lighter with 35% white vs. 40% in the pic above.  So perhaps the higher percentage of whole wheat above made the difference.   Using the whole part of the grains may also be a reason why, vs "light rye".

Both followed the similar build schedules...  Cheers!

grind's picture
grind

Not sure if it's already been mention in this thread, but alot of these ligh rye breads use white rye flour.  It's rye flour with the bran and germ removed (I think).  I don't know that an ingredient list would necessarily specify what type of rye flour is used in the bread.  Although, if it doesn't say whole rye flour, that could be a hint that they are using a sifted rye flour of some kind.  Just a thought.

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

of different ratio "Mischbrote"

Click on the bread and they tell you the ratio.

http://www.hofpfisterei.de/hpf_sortiment_natursauerteigbrote.php

John mentioned this bakery in his initial post, I think.

Cheers,

Juergen

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Actually, I had not mentioned this site or bakery, but thanks for posting it!  What a great tool to figure out breads by crumb photos.

John