The Fresh Loaf

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San Franciso Sourdough - 15% Whole Grain

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dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

San Franciso Sourdough - 15% Whole Grain

After watching David Snyder develop his SFSD and baking it several times it tuned out to be as good as his San Joaquin and Pugliesi Capriosso.  All 3 are fine SD breads but each is a little light on whole grains that we love so much around here for taste, as well as, health reasons.  We would like to get to at least 25% whole grains in most of our breads.

 

The problem is that the more whole grains you put in, the more likely the big holes are going to disappear.  But Empress Ying has no problem getting big holes in her famous 36 Hour Baguettes - even with 40% whole grains.  Both David and Ying are amazing bakers - really!

  

So, we feel that with a little luck we should be able to get some decent holes in some SF style SD bread with up to 40% whole grains but, we realize that we won’t get the holes Ying or David manage to coax out their breads - at least not in this lifetime or even on this planet for that matter.

 

We decided to start with 15% whole grains made up of equal amounts of Spelt, WW and Rye and work our way up over time to 40% whole grains and see what happens.  We started out with 72% hydration on the initial bake and will up the percent as the whole grain increases.  We like the flavor that these 3 whole grains bring to SD breads.

  

We used 15 g of our Desem and Rye Sour starter and made one build to 175 G of levain over 6 hours.  The levain ended up being 20% of the total weight of the dough - a percent that we like to build to for a 12 hour 37 F retard.

 

We also did a 3 hour autolyse with the salt, water and flour.  After the levain was hand mixed into the autolyse, we did 10 minutes of French slap and folds and then allowed the dough to rest for 30 minutes in an oiled plastic covered bowl.  We then did 3 sets of S&F’s on half hour intervals.  We stopped each set when the dough started to resist the stretch.

 

The dough was then pre-shaped into a boule and allowed to rest for 10 minutes before final shaping and placing seam side up in a floured basket.  It was immediately placed in a trash can liner, end closed with a rubber band and placed into the fridge for a 12 hour retard. 

 

The next morning the basket and liner were removed from the fridge and allowed to come to room temperature and the finish proofing – about 3 hours total.  I’ve used this basket several times before, with much wetter dough but this time the dough pushed itself out through the lower set of  holes for some reason.

  

It made for a more difficult dough removal and I had to sort of rotate the dough and basket as I jiggled and pried the dough out gently.  It did deflate a little bit but I was surprised that it didn’t really deflate like a higher hydration dough surly would have.  We slashed it in a triangle shape with a non serrated paring knife and will never use a single edge razor blade again.  We tried a different method for each slash.  The first one was 30 degrees and ½” deep trying for an ear, the 2nd was 45 degrees a ¼” deep and the 3rd was 90 degrees and 1/8” deep trying to get bloom.  All 3 worked out great for once as the pictures show.

We chucked it with peel and parchment onto the stone in the 500 F preheated oven (45 minutes) with 2 of Sylvia’s steaming pans.  We also tossed in 1/2 C of water into the bottom of the oven as we shut the door.  We immediately turned the oven down to 450 F.

At the 12 minute mark we removed the steam, turned the oven down to 425 F convection and baked the bread for another 10 minutes turning it 180 degree on the stone every 5 minutes.  At the 22 minute mark it registered 208 degrees.

We turned the oven off and let the boule crisp on the stone for another 10 minutes with oven door ajar.  It hit 210 F while crisping.  We removed it to a cooling rack and let it sit for 1 ½ hours before slicing. 

This is the best looking inside and out and best testing SFSD bread we have ever manage to bake.  The spring was very good.  The crust went soft as it cooled, was well blistered and was a beautiful shade of reddish brown.  The crumb was open, soft and moist.  The taste was tangy sour but not overly so – just delicious.

Can’t wait to start the next bake upping the whole grains and hydration to see if we like it better but this bread will be hard to beat.  It is nice when a bake comes together so well.  Thanks goes out to David Snyder for his work on his fine SFSD version 4 that this bread was based on.

Formula

 

 

 

 

 

 Starter

Build 1

%

SD Desem & Rye Sour

15

2.99%

Spelt

20

4.83%

Whole Wheat

20

4.83%

Dark Rye

20

4.83%

AP

20

4.83%

Water

80

19.32%

Total Starter

175

42.27%

 

 

 

Starter

 

 

Hydration

100.00%

 

Levain % of Total

20.05%

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

Bread Flour

191

46.14%

Whole spelt

3

0.72%

Dark Rye

3

0.72%

Whole Wheat

3

0.72%

Insant Potato Flakes

10

2.42%

AP

200

48.31%

Dough Flour

414

100.00%

 

 

 

Salt

8

1.93%

Water

276

66.67%

Dough Hydration

66.67%

 

 

 

 

Total Flour

501.5

 

Water

363.5

 

T. Dough Hydration

72.48%

 

Whole Grain %

15.25%

 

 

 

 

Hydration w/ Adds

72.48%

 

Total Weight

873

 

 

Comments

baybakin's picture
baybakin

Wow. lovely looking boule there dabrownman

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

It reminds me of my days living in SF and the many boules that get baked in your neck of the woods every day.  I'm glad you like it.  It tastes just like the SFSD I remember for so long ago.

isand66's picture
isand66

Congrats!  That is one of the best open crumbs and slashes I have seen you accomplish!  That must taste great also.

You should try the 36 hour technique that I used based on TXfarmer if you want to get even more "holes" but honestly yours looks pretty close to perfect for this type of bread.

Great baking.

Ian

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

hydration and whole grains in steps up to 40% whole grains we will be stretching out the retard times  eventually reaching 24 hours used txfarmer.  She had a more open crumb on her 40% whole grain baggies than I did with this bake!  Here is a top shot so you can see the 3 different slashes clearly.

I think this is one of the best breads my apprentice has ever baked without a terrible, unexpected something happening to it :-)

Thanks Ian.

gmabaking's picture
gmabaking

Even with the scary part of having to jiggle the basket, the design on the top of the bread-with those beautiful ears also- looks like it would be worth it. Of course that is if your apprentice would be willing to not breathe during the extraction. The taste with those whole grains must be remarkable.

The 100 % sourdough and lots of fresh vegetables has done the 60 pound miracle for my husband also. Good for you both!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

the variety of basket designs one can find at Goodwill for 50 cents each on half price Thursday.  Will try not to let my apprentice buy them with holes so big though :-)  I'm surprised it came out as well as did with those dough knobs sticking out.  You are right -  this is a fine tasting SD.  As we take the whole grains and hydration a few notches in the future we hope the flavor doesn't go down a few too. 

Losing the weight was great but the walking is most important to keep it off and help reduce blood sugar levels - at least for me that is the case.

I'm starting to bake boules as pretty as you gma's do !

Thanks and happy baking.

isand66's picture
isand66

After looking at your photos again, I don't see why you would even want a more open crumb since your sandwich meats would fall out of the holes in the bread :).

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

for the lunch shot.  I had to turn the sandwich over to photo it because the big hole on the other side was leaking mayo and smoked turkey!  Now if we can get those holes on the 40% whole grain ..........You would like the taste of this bread.

PiPs's picture
PiPs

Looks great dabrownman!

I love the dough bulging out of the basket :)

Think the crumb is perfect for this type of bread. Nice!

Cheers,
Phil

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

is I didn't notice the dough bulging out of the basket until I looked at the photos.  Knew something was strange when I trid to lift the basket off the dough when turning it out.  It wasn't budging at all so I jiggled the basket back a forth while trying to pick up an edge.  Eventually it slowly dropped out somehow.  No worries - even though I was sure another basket disaster was in order.

Glad you like the bread.  Now if I can get that crumb with 40% whole grain :-)  Somehow Empress Ying gets them on her 40% baggies - amazing!

Your crumb is still way better but,  my apprentice and I will endeavor to preserver until we can get something like it.  Your bread is pretty inspirational for us mere mortals!

Thanks and Cheers Phil.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

It certainly looks like you reached your target! Nice bake!

David

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

since most of it is based on you development project.  It tastes a lot like your version 4 SFSD.

Because of type 2 diabetes; now under control after losing 60 pounds, eating right and walking 4 miles a day, I can enjoy a nice slice of bread for breakfast, lunch and dinner but it is better for me to pack more whole grains into each bake.  It probably won't taste as good or have as nice a crust or crumb but it will be healthier for folks like me.

Thanks for you inspiration and showing the way for so many of us.  I am a much better baker because of you and so many other TFL bakers too.

Thanks and happy baking. 

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Mr. D,

Very nice loaf.  Love the crust and the pattern your basket left on it - despite the bulges :-)

I am waiting to see how things go when you up the % of whole grains.....

Like Ian, I worry about you achieving holes any larger than in this loaf.  Your lunches could become messy escaping through the holes though I think your apprentice would not mind at all :-)

Take Care,

Janet

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

worry about the holes getting larger going forward toward the 40% wholegrain goal but I don't want them getting any smaller either  - but I bet they will.  I need to learn all of txfrmer's secrets for holes in 40% whole grain bread soon :-)

Will have to try another basket for the next bake.  They each have their own distinct pattern and we don't like repeats much unless we are talking; shooters,  tax refunds and get out of jail free cards :-)

You and I like the whole grains and the more there are the more they cry out for Yeast Water to open up the crumb.  So how are your yeast water renewed trials going?

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

:-)

RYW is now in the refrig. where it gets a good shaking everyday to keep it on it's toes.  When things begin to smell a bit strong I remove the spent raisins, freeze them for a loaf that calls for raisins,  add some fresh ones and put it back on it's shelf.

To use I have been mixing it with my desem starter for loaves that are enriched a bit just to keep the leaven on the mild side of the taste equation.  If the formula calls for 50g of water, I use 25g of each and the resulting leaven is mild.

I can't say I have noticed a difference in crumb formation as a result of adding RYW.  Mostly what I am going for is the flavor change.  All of my loaves do an overnight bulk ferment so there is a lot of time for crumb opening as the yeasts have a hey-day while in cold storage....They get a head start on the counter and then, when I see they are happily awake and feeding etc, I pop them into the refrig. where they continue to do their thing but at a slower rate.  In the morning they get more room time, in my proofing box now since temps. here have dropped, to wake up and start the feeding cycle again.  By the time my loaves are actually baked they have had lots and lots of time to soften and open up though I do  not go for holes in my loaves.  Unlike your apprentice my 16 year old son hates things dripping through his sandwiches.  He is rather vocal about his preferences.  I take heed :-)

Thanks for asking :-)

I am curious to see how your new starter build works... I am thinking 'goo' by the end of a week in your weather and on the counter no less....but who knows.  I guess we will soon enough!

Take Care,

Janet

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

me up to date on your RYW.  I find it mellows SD tang when ever it is used as a combo starter too!  Nice to get confirming experiments.    Some folks just don't like SD and they would love YW.  It is great for EM';s Pancakes, white, WW or Japanese sandwich breads, cinnamon rolls etc. Anywhere you don't want sour the YW comes to the rescue .  No need for commercial yeast at all now.  I still think it opens the holes on 100% whole grain breads too.  Made a huge difference in my ryes.  You will try it out and see for yourself I'm sure.

Now at 8 and half hours on my SD experiment and have whopping 1/4" of rise.  By now my SD levain would have expanded 6" and blown the lid off the the container when using 20 g instead of 1 g.  We will see if it can make it 5 days and make 2 nice knotted rolls.   I'm guessing maybe 40 hours on the counter is all it will make until goo sets in and it collapses.  Was 81 in the kitchen this afternoon at 3 PM  and it only got to 83 today outside :-)

Will have to do the same test in January and see how long it can go when the kitchen is only 65 F.  I'm hoping the sour comes out though - otherwise there is no reason to do it at all? 

I don't like dripping sandwiches either so nice medium holes, that still hold the innards in, would be good at 40% whole grain. Can always add some YW to it if necessary to open up the holes some :-)

Have a nice weekend Janet!

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

I thought, Too much time in the AZ sun for dab?  This is a worryingly conventional looking loaf of bread.  But then desem/rye sour, spelt, rye, potato flakes.  Ok.  Whew.  He hasn't gone too straight.

Exquisitely gelated crust.  Glistening yellow crumb.  Where's that coming from?  No durum in there.  Spelt?   I'm getting hungry looking at it. 

Weekend's upon us and the last's loaves are all et up.  Bakin' to do!

Cheers,

Tom

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

crumb color comes from the blazing AZ sun!  That is why I include some indoors shots because the real color is half way in between the two.  It is a fine looking and tasting bread despite my apprentices attempts to hold it back :-)  You are correct to be a little worried.  It is sort of a boring loaf ....will have to get to the auto parts store before Ian takes all the good stuff :-)

Good luck with your weekend bake - that the only time I can't bake :-)  I do have my 1 g of Desem & Rye sour starter to 100 g of flour , 75 g of water with 2g of salt test going - to see if we can get it to ferment for 5 full days on the counter and  be able to bake it off in 2 knotted rolls without it turning to goo.  It is 79.9 F degrees in the kitchen right now and 5 days may be pushing it.

Have a good weekend Tom.

waltgray's picture
waltgray

Trying to follow some of the recipes.  Yours seems perfect.

One question, I see milk and water but do not see milk in

the recipe, am I missing something.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

spread sheet from bake to bake.  There is no milk and I will fix it - nice catch and thanks.  You will like this bread very much - even if you use milk :-)

Mebake's picture
Mebake

This is one of the best looking breads you've baked thus far, DA! Judging from the crumb, and crust, you've perfected every step on the way.. And the result is a testimony to your increasing baking skills...

that is one white bread worthy of my palate!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

We will be upping the whole grains to 25% next time and then up to 40%.  We are going to try to use these new skills to keep some of the holes and add to the flavor.  It is going to be a fun experiment.  Then it is back to 100% whole grain breads.......

Hope your back is better too and your baking goes well.

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks for asking, DA! Very thoughtful of you :)

I Have taken the injection!  It has been a week since the day... And 85% of the pain has disappeared. it has been an awful 3 years, filled with chronic pain, and for once, i'm pain free :) lets see how long will the steroid last..

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Hopefully your talent for bread making will improve with a better back.

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

What good news to hear.  Perhaps the steroid will allow the inflammation to heal and then no more debilitating pain...I know how hard it is to live with chronic pain.....

Take Care,

Janet

hanseata's picture
hanseata

where is de hemp? Though the dough in the basket looks suspiciously like a pipe dream, sending strange protrusions out to all sides, this one important ingredient is missing? Oh, Dabrownman......!

Grounded in Hamburg thanks to Sandy,

Karin

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

seeds would keep strange retarded protrusions at bay too!  I knew something was missing but I couldn't figure it out.  You have every right to feel let down and disappointed by my apprentices poor recipe planning :-) 

But she is making up for it tomorrow with the (2) near 60 hour levain builds on two very different SD breads, each of which must have some kind of seeds or she will be shipped back to the Black Forest, Sandy or no Sandy, schneller als sie können betteln oder kaufen ihren Weg aus dem Exil.   One better be a seeded bread any that Hamburger, stranded or no,  would be proud of!

Glad you liked the bread without Hempsters hanging out inside or out.

Justkneadit's picture
Justkneadit

Gorgeous loaf DA!

You're making me miss baking bread even more! It looks so good I can almost taste it!

I love grains in my bread but didn't have a chance to experiment very much before I left. I was however amazed at how much flavor can be evoked from the dough with the long cold autolyse and cold ferment! Speaking on the long cold autolyse, it creates  much less work in kneading, it seemed like  much work when I didn't do the long autolyse haha. Can't wait to get back at it!

Take Care,

Lane

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

boule Lane.  I either like French slap and folds with a 3-4 hour room temp autolyse and them some S & F/s or a long cold autolyse with S & F's.  Can't beat txfarmers 36 hour baguette process and it works for other shapes as well.  I kind of like Fench slap and folds too.  Get the SD starter going and be wary for the Taliban my friend.

Thanks Lane