The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Alkali for making noodles

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Bara1's picture
Bara1

Alkali for making noodles

Hi,

This is my first post here.  I was drawn here by doing a search on Kansui Water in Google.  I've been trying to find a suitable Alkali for including in a dough recipe to make Hand Pulled Noodles aka La Mian.  In China they use a compound called Peng Hui which is some kind of Ash.  It's not available in Europe so I'm looking for an alternative.  Would anybody here have  any suggestion for an alternative which would act on the dough gluten and make the dough more 'stretchy' and indeed hold together better when boiled?  Thank you for any replies.

breadforfun's picture
breadforfun

Hi Bara1,

You can find an article here by Harold McGee on baked soda as a substitute for lye or Jian.  Basically, it is regular baking soda, sodium bicarbonate, that is baked at a low temperature to remove CO2 + water, making it sodium carbonate, a more active alkali.  Kansui is a mixture of sodium carbonate and potassium carbonate.  The baked soda has a shelf life of about 6 months to a year if kept in a tightly sealed jar.  I have used it in the water to boil my bagels with excellent results.

-Brad

 

Bara1's picture
Bara1

Thank u for that Brad.  I had in fact seen that by Harold McGee and I tried out his baked baked soda substitute today.  It did make the dough a little more stretchy but it wasn't like the Peng Hui which I've seen and indeed used myself when I was in China.  What can there be in this Peng Hui which alters the dough so much?   Today, I used plain flour with a litte corn flour.   I was suggested this dough mixture by somebody on the web.  But maybe my flour would have been better with a higher protein content.   There must be some food scientists out there who know what Peng Hui does to the gluten........

Crider's picture
Crider

This is a source for what is called Koon Chun Lye Water, however, the bottle says it is potassium carbonate and sodium bi-carbonate rather than sodium carbonate like kansui. But at only $2.99 (plus shipping), it was certainly worth a bookmark. Someday, someday, I'll try it!

There's a fellow, Luke Rymarz, who made a nice collection of recipes and experiences on making hand-pulled noodles, and I think that could be helpful to you. Basically the secret is low-gluten flour and over-kneading to actually break down the gluten. Seems to me it should be the opposite, but he's done it and I haven't!

Crider's picture
Crider

This is from Rymarz's site:

Hand Pulled Noodle Recipe #19 – with Lye Water

152g cake flour
24g all-purpose flour
1g salt
25g sesame oil
95g water
3g lye water

Just a little bit of lye water! I was surprised it uses so little.

Beka's picture
Beka

Lyewater is pretty bitter! You only need a little. I buy mine locally (in Asia) but perhaps a mixture of sodium carbonate (washing soda) and water would suffice?

trekclg's picture
trekclg

I used the recipe in LUCKY PEACH mag...Harold McGee version as mentioned above...came out great using the baked baking soda...Asian friend told me tasted like his family's....the trick is the kneading....in a double plastic ziplock bag and you can walk on them....saw that on a website...be careful if you use your mixer...puts a lot of strain on it...hope your's turn out fine too.!

 

Bara1's picture
Bara1

Thanks for the replies so far.  trecklg, did you 'pull' the noodles as they do in some Chinese restaurants?  I don't have any problems with getting noodles to taste good or even the right colour.....it's just finding a recipe that enables the dough to be stretched many times.