The Fresh Loaf

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2nd Tartine Country Bread Attempt

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Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

2nd Tartine Country Bread Attempt

This last week, I had been preparing for my 2nd Tartine Country Bread attempt.  Techincally, it was the first attempt at the exact recipe.  My first attempt used my typical rye starter.  This time I fed my starter the 50/50 ww/white combo as the recipe calls for.  Last night when I was to make my levain, the starter decided not to double even though all week it had shown consistent doubling.  In a panic, I posted a deseprate plea on the forum for a suggestion of extra yeast push outside of my sarter.  Below are the results.  Two loaves, but the second one had better oven spring, probably due to the extra proofing time while the first one was baking.  I am getting tired of my typical scoring.  It always turns out the same - flat and non dramatic.

Anyway, this is  exactly why I joined this site.  It saved my week long awaited bake!  This site provides such great help for all sorts of baking issues, and I am very thankful to all the help I have received thus far.  Thank you all and thank you Mini Oven for the quick reply last night.  The measurement of active dry yeast you suggested worked.

 

 

 

isand66's picture
isand66

Looks like you achieved some good results.  Nice crust and open crumb.  How did it taste?

 

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thanks isand66.  Yes, I was happy with it.  Except the first loaf could have proofed a bit longer.  The taste is very nice.  Very rich crust flavour, bit sweet savoury, with a barely detectable sour. I have never had the original Tartine Country Bread so I am not sure how it compares, but I sure can't complain.  Sandwiches tomorrow will be amazing, can't wait.

Have you ever tried this one?  Ever tasted the original?

John

isand66's picture
isand66

Hi John,

I have not tried his formula yet and I live on the East Coast and have not had a chance to try his actual bread either.  I have seen many people bake using his formula's with great success and one day I will have to give it a try.  I have the book but like some of my other bread books I have not gotten to baking from them yet.  I keep going off on tangents and I find creating my own original recipes more enticing right now.  I have been baking baguettes with Dave Synder and TxFarmer's formulas trying to get those down so I suppose next I may actually attempt a recipe from Bread or Local Breads.

Good luck with your baking.

Ian

PiPs's picture
PiPs

Looks great ... boldy baked?

Cheers,
Phil 

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thanks Pips.  Looks great except for the scoring.  I am trying to get better at it, but still can't quite get those ears and lifts.

Funny, this last week, your fig loaf was an inspiration for a fig walnut loaf I baked for the first time.  It came out fine and tasted nice, just did not have the open sourdough type crumb that yours has.  I was hoping mine would turn out like yours but I sort of screwed up the levain and had to just use acive dry yeast in my version.

Do you have a recipe for your fig loaf?  I just saw photos.

John

PiPs's picture
PiPs

Was that the one I just uploaded on flickr?

I am going to do a post on a fig bread very soon ...

Cheers,
Phil 

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

That would be the one PiPs.  Nice open crumb with large holes.  I had a fig and walnut loaf from a popular bakery in town about 4 years ago and loved it.  Your photos reminded me of that loaf so I tried baking one last week.  Not quite there but close.

I would love the recipe or at least a general idea.  Levain or no levain, rye?  ww? etc.

John

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

a few days before building the levain, then it won't protest so much when you feed it wheat.  Rye starters are just so energetic but they can sometimes protest when they don't get their rye food  (like a dog that's fed steak and suddenly given dried dog food)  Try mixing in 20% wheat flour into your normal rye feed.  

It is a pretty wet dough for ears.  I do believe that the last shaping fold is actually a dough roll up with classic scoring running parallel to the shaped risen roll cutting thru the first layer.  Try it

Mini

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thanks Mini!

Actually, I fed my rye starter techincally about 40% ww and 60% white br flour for the first 4 days, then switched to 50% ww and 50% white br flour for the last 3 days.  Every day, it had doubled consitently with no issues.  Then on the last day, it just did not and that's when I posted that panic forum message.

So are you saying that I should not have been feeding it 50/50 ww and br flour for a full week and should have just done it a few days before levain?

Also, I understand the dough being too wet for ears, but I still see many many photos of other's attempts at this bread and other slack dough breads that have nice (let's say different from mine) lifting slash marks.  These for example:

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

You could try only 3 days of feeding before and see what happens.  

your comment "consistantly doubled with no issues"  leaves me to now wonder if you let the starter peak before feeding again.  "Double" is often confused with peaking (maximum rise.)  Many starters will loose strength if only allowed to "double" when they really need to triple or quadruple to keep their yeast numbers up.   If you were feeding at double and not peak, it could be that you did not notice the decrease in the yeast population until it got too low.  Could this be?

I have often seen my rye starter protest when fed wheat flour, but by letting it rise until peaked which takes longer than usual.  In a few days with feeding after the peak, it's doing the job I want it to do.  I usually have to include rye flour and some wheat, over the course of several days, I increase the wheat % while reducing the rye %.  Not everybody has this problem. 

About the scoring, that might have more to do with pre-shaping and shaping of the dough.  Important to get a tight shape for a good score.  Look over the shaping videos.  Keep in mind that sometimes with the shaping, you add "grain" to the dough, cutting against that grain gives the most dramatic effect.  Try tightly rolling or folding the dough to create "grain."   Scoring is something that takes time to learn so be patient with yourself.  

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thanks for the advice Mini.  I usually feed my usual rye starter every 12 hours or so.  Basically twice a day.  For the Tartine loaf, the recipe calls for once every 24 hours.  Which is what I did all week.  Fed it in the morning when it was almost back down to the start line I marked on my jar, then when I came home, made sure it had doubled and sure enough it did, every day.  The next morning, fed it again and repeated the process all week.  I have no idea why the slow down happened on the 7th day, as I kept all feedings the same, with the same temps, etc.  I will chaulk this one up to a one off strange 'who knows.'  I did find two fruit flies on the top of the inside of the jar that afternoon.  From what I hear, if the starter is healthy and not new, it should withstand these types of invasions, so I would be surprised of that was the culprit.  I don't know.  Im just happy that you gave me the advice when you did, and the loaf came out decent enough!

John

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

what was the feeding ratio every 24 hrs?  It probaby didn't like going from 12hr feeds to 24hr ones.  humor me.

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Ratio was 50% ww and 50% wh bread, and water.  I am thinking that might have been the culprit.  The change from every 12 hours to once a day.  I just wanted to do exactly what the recipe called for and it calls for once every 24 hours.

Next time I will stick to the twice a day feedings to keep things consitent.

Also, I am aware that the recipe calls for a brand new starter to be constructed and NOT to use an already existing one like I did.  So I guess I am wrong in saying that I followed the recipe exactly.  Who am I to think I could get away with these small tweaks?? :)

John

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

10g starter? 20g starter?  50g starter? 100g starter?   :)  to 10g flour? 50g flour?  100g flour?   and how much water?

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Oh sorry Mini!

And are you meaning the total build recipe (levain + build?) or just the starter?

John

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

a DO gives to bread.  Boldly baked is the right way to get it too.  I'm not big fan of the mild SD taste the Tartine Method gives with the young starter but this bread has to taste great because of the crust!

Very nice baking

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thanks dabrownman!  The crust is the kicker for me too.  Sandwiches are amazing.

John

All at Sea's picture
All at Sea

... congratulations!

With regard to the scoring, if you can ensure you're getting a good tight gluten sheath when shaping, that will help - as already suggested above. But also try David Snyder's tip of only scoring very shallowly. The wetter the dough, the shallower the cut. About 1/4 inch, I think he suggested. And angle the cut at a slant. The logic goes, that if you cut too deep, the weight of the embryonic ear is such it flattens out and doesn't rise in a ridge. I had very hit and miss "ear" action, until I limited the depth of the cut. Am tickled to report,  David's advice solved the problem of unreliable ears (!) totally.

All at Sea

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thank you All at Sea.  :)

I will definitely try getting a tighter surface next time.  I think I was just a bit too careful this time, trying not to disturb the dough.  I agree that along with using some of the other proper techniques in scoring will help make a more dramatic finish.

John