September 28, 2007 - 2:47pm
Kenwood / Delonghi comparison to Kitchen Aid
I'm very happy with my Delonghi mixer. It handled the 3 loaf cinnamon raisin oatmeal bread very well. What I'd love to have is some kind of cross-reference for standard instructions. It seems most bread books give mixer instructions for a Kitchen Aid. I know that if I follow them literally (i.e. 10 minutes at 3) I'll overmix my dough halfway through the stated time. Does anyone know how the settings compare?
If I stuck with one recipe, it would be easy to learn the best time and setting. But there are too many breads out there that I want to try!
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I find a lot of recipes that instruct me to knead the dough in my KitchenAid mixer for so-many minutes at 4. But I know that I shouldn't knead above 2 in my KitchenAid Classic (I read the manual). So even though I have a KitchenAid, I'm not sure what I'm being told to do. Are they talking about another model? Or do they want me to burn my mixer out?
Rosalie
Hi Rosalie, I have the 600 Pro and the more I use it, the more I use the slower speeds. If you follow the BBA, I believe it says to mix on "medium" for stand mixers. That would be about 4 or 6 on my model. (Actually, there are only about 5 discreet speeds on this model, two numbers get one "notch" - marketing 10 speeds I suppose). Anyway, I found I was tearing the dough at the recommended BBA speeds. Then I started to autolyze and that helped some too. My dough was getting very warm until I started slowing it down, and performing an autolyze.
SD Baker
I also have a Kitchen Aid mixer, the biggest one they have. I use it to grind my grains and I do occasionally use it to mix my dough also, but not completely. I just use it to get the dough to come together and than I do some hand kneading. I am afraid of over mixing and I haven't read the manual about this. I have read some comments that say it can only take 10 minutes of kneading and then it gets too hot.
I have a kenwood chef which I use for milling flour (it is excellent for that) and for pasta, but while it mixes dough really well, I have for the last year or so followed Dan Lepard's very simple and effective method of handling the dough, which I much prefer. See the Handmade Loaf for details!
Andrew
Thanks Andrew, I'll take a look at Dan Lepard's book. I really like working dough with my hands, though health problems often make that difficult.
Does The Handmade Loaf mostly deal with whole grains?
KC -
Have a KA Pro 6 with a c-hook - found that dough climbs up hook if not watched.
Have taken to using it to mix dough just til it comes together then hand kneading it - doing it this way gves you a feel for the dough - after acouple of times doing this you Will be able to sense when dough is ready to be set side and proofed - slower speeds also help I have not gone above 3 on the KA - this helps keep dough from building up friction heat ( as stated in above post ) a " cooler " dough allows the flavors to build - giving you a better bread.
Slide__Out
A recent Good Eats episode suggested giving the dough hook a spritz of oil before kneading to keep the dough from climbing up the hook. It works great for some breads - but didn't stop the Cinnamon Oatmeal Raisin bread, which is a LOT of dough.
It says to mix ingredients on 1, and knead on 2. (The dial goes up 5 more places.) The other night I made a pizza dough, the first dough done completely in the mixer that I've been really happy with. I alternated between 1 and 1.5, but still for less than the prescribed time. I started checking the dough fairly early on and got a beautiful windowpane.
I realize that part of my difficulty is that I'm working with mostly whole grain doughs, and just don't have a complete idea of what the doughs should be like at various points. I think that will come with time.
As for my original question, I'll start keeping notes of the times I use, and see if I can come up with any generalizations.
KipperCat, do you mean "The Art of Handmade Bread" by Dan Lepard? It is a lovely book, both written and photographed by him. On the cover it says "Contemporary European Recipes for the Home Baker" I think most of the recipes call for whole grains of some type, but one of my favorites is White Thyme bread which is straight bread flour. I was able to get the picholine olives it calls for this week so I will be making it tomorrow. Rather like a thick foccacia. Oh, he does use fresh yeast and what he calls leaven, but I use my starter and instant yeast. Plus he preaches the "knead for 10 seconds" method, although I don't like the oiled counter so follow Bill's water and wet hands routine. See if you can find the book at your library - I bet you would like it, A.
Well Andres's post mentioned "The Handmade Loaf" which I found mentioned in several other posts here as well. Um, I looked on Amazon. It looks like they may be hardback and softcover versions of the same book? I'll try interlibrary loan, the local library doesn't have any of Lepard's books.
I have 2 Hobart made Kitchen Aid mixers, both 5 qt models, a model K5-A and model K5-SS. Believe me, they are much better made than the Whirlpool models. The Hobart made KA attachments (such as the food grinder and grain mill, both of which I also own) are also better made. Both my mixers use the "C" shape dough hook.
I knead dough on speed 2 or speed 1. Lower speeds help prevent the dough from "climbing" up the dough hook. The dough should spread out sideways and slap or rub against the sides of the bowl.
I almost use an autolyse when machine kneading, or at least a rest period of about 30 min after combining all ingredients. This makes a *big* difference; flour needs time to absorb liquid. After the rest period, about 3 minutes of final kneading by machine is normally sufficient. I don't think I've ever had the KA knead dough more than 5 minutes.
I am, however, also a fan of making dough entirely by hand, which I also often do. Even if I machine knead, I almost always finish kneading by hand. IMHO, hand kneading is the best way to educate yourself about the feel of the dough for different types of bread.
I seldom make more than 3 pounds of dough in a batch. Either of my mixers handles this amount without strain. If I were making a higher hydration dough (~ 65%) with only white flour or just a small amount of whole grain flour (around 10-15% of total flour weight) I'm sure they could handle 4 pounds of dough.
Here some factors that make for a heavier dough which can put strain on a Kitchen Aid mixer, especially for larger amounts: using a high-protein white flour (over 12% protein - such as King Arthur Bread flour at 12.7% protein or any high gluten flour); using a high percentage of whole grain flour; adding gluten flour.
I know I've merely echoed advice already given. The key point I'd like to emphasize is make time work for you. A simple rest period of about 30 minutes between the combination of your ingredients for the initial dough and the final kneading (by machine or hand) really shortens the required kneading time.
Kippercat:
I have the same problem except that I use the Electrolux DLX to knead bread. I discovered that I was seriously underkneading my dough as the DLX takes longer to knead to achieve properly developed gluten.
Susanfnp's website has an excellent description of the stages of gluten development with photos depicting three levels of "windowpaning" (http://www.wildyeastblog.com/?s=windowpane) I found it very helpful. I now try to go more by the windowpane test and less by the given times for a KA mixer. And, like Subfuscpersona, I always finish kneading by hand. I enjoy it.
I also have the same problem as you, Kippercat. I, too, have to try different recipes, but as there is value in repeating recipes to get a better feel for the dough, I am now forcing myself to repeat formulas.