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Increasing the size of a dough batch

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pizzaguy's picture
pizzaguy

Increasing the size of a dough batch

I have a biscuit receipe that I need to make in a larger quanity and I am not sure how to increase the ingredients properly.

The reciepe calls for:

2 c all-purpose flour

1 tbsp baking powder

1 tbsp sugar

1/2 tsp cream of tartar

1/4 tsp salt

1/2 c butter

3/4 c milk (I would like to use dry milk if possible)

 I would like to increase this to a 12.5# patch.

 thanks for any help.

Nathan

dolfs's picture
dolfs

A while ago I created a spreadsheet with some handy dandy functions for this kind of stuff, so here goes. Your original recipe above, reverse engineered (from volumes to grams using a database with weight per volume information built into my spreadsheet, and then to percentages for scaling) looks like this:
Original Biscuits Small

This produces 1.28lb of dough at 66.33% hydration. The latter is important for the conversion to use dried milk powder. If you want 12.5lb of this, it looks like this:Original Biscuits Small

If you would like to replace the milk with water and dried milk powder, you must first of all maintain the hydration, so the water component must now represent 66.33%. The corresponding amount of milk powder then is 7.46%. This leads to:

Original Biscuits Small

or, scaled to 12.5 pounds:
Original Biscuits Small


For converting weight of dried milk powder to cups (I discourage use of volume, as it is imprecise, use a scale if you can), please know that 1 cup is approx 4 oz (113.5g), or 1 tablespoon is 1/4 oz (7.1g) (after all a cup contains 16 tablespoons).
 
--dolf


See my My Bread Adventures in pictures
ryaninoz's picture
ryaninoz

That spread sheet is fantastic! Are you willing to share it, as I have to convert here in Australia from U.S. to metric all the time, etc. Also how did you get the spreadsheet graphics like that into the above comment. If you can't share the spreadsheet and I can appreciate that if you did allot of work, can you share the resources you used to develope it?

Thanks so much in advance!

Cheers,

Ryan Propst

Sydney, Australia

dolfs's picture
dolfs

The spreadsheet is undergoing some changes and quality control... Haha. I am just still fiddling with it and have not made it user friendly enough to want to release it, lest I get nothing but questions. I will, when done, release it, though.

The graphics.... That is a trick. Unfortunately this site does not allow for any construct in messages that will format a table (Floyd: I think this site is based on Drupal, can't you enable this functionality?). So what I did (Macintosh) is took screenshots (partial screen) of the spreadsheet and uploaded the screenshots to my own web site. Then the message above just links to those images. I could have uploaded them to this site, but I'd like to keep just photos here.

Regarding resources: I put the spreadsheet together using the following resources:

  • Knowledge gained from the many books discussed on this site (in particular baker's percentages)
  • Information from the USDA nutritional database. This contains much more information than what I use, but the relevant portion I used is the information that gives the weight (in grams) for certain volumes of ingredients. E.g. it gives the weight for a cup of kosher salt, and for a cup of table salt. The difference in coarseness causes different weights. It is this information that allows me to convert weights, the principal value in the spreadsheet, to volumes. I also extracted the water content of each ingredient, which is used to automatically compute the hydration of a dough.
  • Various web sites that list volume/weight conversions for substances not in the USDA database
  • My scale and measuring cups: for stuff that I don't have information for, I measure a cup and weigh it. I do this several times and take the average.
  Not shown here, but other functions in my spreadsheet:
  • Reverse engineering. You enter ingredients and weights (in grams), and it computes the baker's percentages for you.
  • Conversion between regular milk and dried milk.
  • Conversion between sugar/honey/Splenda.
  • General conversion between volume and weight for specific ingredient.
  • Conversion between Fresh/Active Dry/Instant Dry yeast. 
  • Compute hydration contribution of each ingredient in formula.
  • Compute hydration levels of levains and starters and their contribution in final dough and overall dough.
  • Compute adjustments to formulas when substituting different hydration level starters for others, or for yeast. 
  • Compute necessary water temperature for formula based on desired dough temperature, room temperature, ingredient temperature and mixer friction. Also computes amount of ice needed as substitute for water to reach the right temperature. 
  • Scale any formula to a desired total dough weight.
  • Scale any formula to a desired number of loaves of a desired finished weight. 

I have taken a look at the spreadsheet that predicts fermentation and proofing times. I am planning to incorporate that functionality as well. Don't know when.  One downside of doing all this in a spreadsheet is that spreadsheets have limited functionality to create a truly easy to use user interface. In addition, it is hard to deal with formulas that include preferments in any way other than working with final dough percentages throughout. This is a little different than is customary. 





 --dolf


See my My Bread Adventures in pictures
ryaninoz's picture
ryaninoz

Dolf,

I used to be a consultant and programmer and worked quite a bit in both excell and Acess. The user interface you are looking for would be in Access - database although you can also create basic interfaces in excel as well that will allow for both fairly user friendly input and formated output display. My partner is a partner at a firm with a whole host of techno geeks who can help me if I get stumped on this as well. I am happy to assist you in creating a more functional, user friendly interface in both excel and Access (I realise not everyone will have access database). You are obviously more than capable but wanted to offer any assistance you may be keen for, as I can see this 'project' as being extremely useful for this online community and can imagine that it is allot of work.

No worries if you don't want to take up my offer just thought I'd throw it out there. It's your baby and can appreciate the effort and time you put into create this work. :-)

Ryan Propst

Sydney, Australia

dolfs's picture
dolfs

Find it in this post. Enjoy!


--dolf


See my My Bread Adventures in pictures

ryaninoz's picture
ryaninoz

p.s.

 submitted before I finished last post.....

 You've done an amazing and thorough job with your spreadsheet and it's calculations. I am most impressed with your design, forethought and efforts. In programmer lingo you have done a great effort in the requirement determination process (scoping out the needed program functionality) and System development. You might be a programmer or techie as well.....??

 Anyway cheers on your work!

Ryan Propst

Sydney, Australia

dolfs's picture
dolfs

You might be a programmer or techie as well.....??
Master's degree in high energy physics, PhD work in computer science, and working in computing ever since. These days I am an independent consultant (sw architecture and management consultant).

Regarding Excel/Access and UI: I know the possibilities there, but as you mentioned, not everybody will have Access. Secondly, while I run Macintoshes, Linux and Windows XP here in my home office, I prefer the Macintosh and I definitely do not want to disappoint my fellow Mac enthusiasts. So, that route is out of the question. My plan is to stabilize development on the spreadsheet and then work on a Java based program which will incorporate all that and more, with the backup of a built-in database. That will take a while, but should make all parties happy, as it will be cross-platform. While I want to, at least initially, make that available for free, I may turn that into something commercial. 

--dolf


See my My Bread Adventures in pictures
ryaninoz's picture
ryaninoz

You've got my MBA beat! I was going to mention that I noticed you had MAC and might not want to go the way of MS Office fully. Though they are evil...they are fairly ubiquitous and easy to put there for others to use. Java is such a great platform. It does sound like you are building something with strong commerical potential but if you do get it stablised in the near future and want to share, I am definitly up for conducting systems testing if you want! smile.......

And while I appreciate MAC's I am Windows or LINUX preferential.......

Ryan Propst

Sydney, Australia

scott lynch's picture
scott lynch

I've been thinking for some time of doing something similar in Filemaker pro, which is also cross-platform and can create stand-alone applications so that users would not need to purchase the mother application.  I had also intended to set up an alarm system for when you are actually baking, and had hoped to even create a version that would be suitable for use on a PDA or other handheld.  (Now that's geeky).
Not sure I am ever going to get around to it, and I think Java would maybe be better anyway.  Keep us posted.