The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

ITJB - Round 2 - Week 6 - Vienna Bread (pg. 89) 6/2/12 - 6/9/12

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gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

ITJB - Round 2 - Week 6 - Vienna Bread (pg. 89) 6/2/12 - 6/9/12

We 3 sisters, couldn't wait any longer to get this posted.  This week Vienna Bread! Never had it before, but will again, and again. This bread is AMAZING.  The ease of the recipe could make this bread every baker's Daily Bread.  Wonderful texture. The dough is light and easy to handle.  We are all convinced that the diastatic malt is the wonder ingredient.  Below are our pictures and some comments.  Again, Thank you Kendra for the great choices you made in this semesters schedule!

Helen, gmabaking2, finished her loaves first and they look as amazing as they taste.  She also sent a picture to me a few minutes later, and one loaf had disappeared when her daughter, and grandchildren came by. It goes that fast!  

I baked mine in two different manners, since I was curious about baking bread in my clay romertoff... so you will see a definite different look of the crust and  textures here.

     

I baked them with the lid on the romertoff...  Even now, a few days old, this bread is moist and very good. 

Now, here are Barb's, gmabaking, loaves, she put dried apples and fruits into hers... they sound and look amazing!

 She said in her text to me that you could not see the fruits, but if you look closely you can see them.  Her husband, the official bread taster, pronounced this bread very, very, good. All of our families and friends agree... This will become my standard sandwich bread.  We all commented while texting and chatting and enjoying our sisterly day of baking that this dough would also make great rolls.  It makes great toast too... Did I mention that it is amazing? Love it!   Again, we are enjoying spending our baking day together and reminiscing about breads and rolls gone by ;-)... See you all here next week for Sandwich Cookies... HAPPY BAKING!

Urchina's picture
Urchina

Those look delicious! I'm planning on making mine tomorrow -- we'll see if my schedule cooperates. I hope it does, as we're out of bread right now (sacrilege, at least in this house!)

Thanks for starting the thread...

Kendra

HeidiH's picture
HeidiH

I've made this one a few times.  "Vienna Bread" is a name I vaguely remembered from my childhood and remembered liking so I was very glad to find this recipe.  In fact, it may have been the first one I tried from ITJB.  I can't make it too often because I like it so much I inhale it and I'm still trying to keep my circumference less than my height.

Oh, and I made it without the malt as I didn't have any.  It's still wonderful.

Urchina's picture
Urchina

Okay, this is really good bread. I made it entirely by hand (no mixer) and found the dough easy to mix and handle. It proofed quickly and was perfect for splitting into smaller portions for my little helpers to shape into their own rolls (not all the doughs I work with are easy for the kids to handle). 

I also like that it bakes at the same temperature as most of the quick breads and cookies that I make, so I can load the oven all at once. This lets me do a week's baking in a single shot, which is hard to do when I'm doing a sourdough that needs to be baked at 500 degrees F. 

I made one loaf, which we haven't cut open yet, the kids each made a roll with some of the dough, and then I took the remaining dough and divided it into seven pieces. I flattened each piece and put some chocolate chips and dried tart cherries in the middle, then pinched the dough around the filling, formed the bun into a ball and put the buns seam-side down in a circle with one in the middle (in a circular baking disk) sort of like the Seven Sisters rolls that some have done. These all proofed beautifully and baked up well. The chocolate-cherry filled buns were a huge surprise to the delighted kids, who have requested more, please. And they were fun. 

Thanks, Stan and Norm (who has got to be watching and hopefully has an endless supply of great bread wherever he is), for great recipes!

gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

Wow... sounds like you are loving this bread as much as we three grammas do!  What enthusiasm! I took my loaf out of the freezer, the one I baked in the romertoff... and when it thawed it was as great as day one.... Definitely a keeper this one!  I am so glad you got to get dusted in flour!

;-) Diane

joyfulbaker's picture
joyfulbaker

I think this is the dough you're raving about, right?  I love that dough, feels silky, bakes up like a dream.  I've used it for onion rolls, and I've posted onion pockets before, but I just made another batch, just in time for the challenge.  I roasted 2 med. onions for an hour at 350 dF and used that for the filling; I soaked 1/2 cup of dehydrated onions in 1 1/2 cups of filtered water (strained onions out and used the onion water for the dough), squeezed the remaining water out of the onions, then mixed them with 2 tsp poppy seeds and 1 TBSP oil (as in the ITJB recipe) for the topping.  Here are some pictures of the finished pockets; sorry not to have a crumb shot, as they went into the freezer (having a birthday brunch later this month--for me!).  

Joyful

gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

Those onion pockets do look wonderful!  This dough would be great for them. I bet they will disappear fast at your party!!! I am sure it will be a joy filled occasion.

gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

Those onion pockets do look wonderful!  This dough would be great for them. I bet they will disappear fast at your party!!! I am sure it will be a joy filled occasion.

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Ratner's has nothing on you, Joy :)

Stan

Urchina's picture
Urchina

Note to self: Do not troll this thread while hungry. Those onion pockets look sinful, Joy. I'm going to have to make some this week!

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Couldn't resist posting a picture of toay's bake ...

gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

What great looking loaves! Wow!

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Yours look great, too.

I was wondering about the malt - are you using diastatic, and the amount from the formula? It seems a lot.

Which column are you using? Percentages, metric, imperial or volume?

I am using non-diastatic rye malt. Still seems a lot.

Happy Baking,

Juergen

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

and at least one guy are doing Vienna, Stan, Norm and IJB a great service with your fabulous baking.  Way to go and nice baking displayed by you all with these very fine examples.   

gmabaking's picture
gmabaking

Joyful, those are gorgeous rolls! I can't wait to get started, turned on the oven to roast up some onions as soons as I saw your post. Haven't tried the medium enriched dough or the onion pockets yet so this will be extra fun to do. ...And this was a non baking day....

I hope this is the correct way to use malt- I have been using the liquid malt syrup, the Vienna Bread is the first that I have tried the dry, which I ordered from King Arthur Flour. My understanding is that you use Diastatic powder for taste within the dough and non-Diastatic for shine on things like pretzels and bagels by mixing 2 Tablespoons malt with 2 quarts water. However the package for the non says to add 1-2 tablespoons to bread recipe.

So for the Vienna bread I used 1 Tablespoonful of Diastatic Malt. I recently bought the spoon scale for amounts like this but have yet to master its use enough to feel confident so I used the volume measurements for sugar, malt, yeast and salt. Used the weight (ounces) for the flour, water and oil.

Juergen, your breads are so beautiful that whichever you used must be right!

 

joyfulbaker's picture
joyfulbaker

Thanks,gmagmabaking2, gmabaking and Stan, for the kind words. You know, Stan, hubby Jerry remembers Ratner's and those rolls (from his youthful days in the lower East side), and he loves these pockets and the onion rolls, all from that wonderful Vienna dough. Re. Juergen's comments, I used the A.B. Mauri low diastatic malt powder from Stan's NYBakers; I believe the recipe specifies 1 TBSP. That's the only malt powder I've ever used, so I don't know the difference between that and "high" diastatic malt. Maybe Stan can explain. The breads, all of them in this thread, are great examples of what we can do with this dough. I'll be using it again and again (wonder what a little spelt or whole wheat in the mix would do?). When I was a kid, our neighbor and friend was a baker (Kansas City); his shop was called the Vienna Bakery, named after the city of his origin.

Joyful

Elagins's picture
Elagins

First of all, you guys are making some fantastic breads! I, too, love that Vienna dough: it's our go-to sandwich loaf. (Hint: you can add 40%-50% whole wheat or spelt flour for a really terrific wholegrain bread; just remember to increase the hydration a bit, since whole grains are thirstier than patent flours.)

As for the diastatic thingie, it refers to the presence or absence of the enzyme diastase, which occurs naturally in barley, in the malt. Heating about about 150F or so deactivates the enzyme, which aids in the breakdown of complex carbs (starches) into simple carbs (sugars).

Back in the old days, before industrial-scale enrichment of flour, the addition of diastatic malt improved the taste and crumb because it made more sugars available to the yeast. Today, unless you're using organic or non-enriched flour, the addition of diastase really doesn't matter much, since most enriched flours also contain either barley flour or barley malt as a natural dough conditioner; hence, the addition of extra diastase is redundant.

I like to use malt because it improves the flavor by means of the sugar maltose, which generally doesn't occur in non-malted doughs. Because malts are rich in maltose, a little goes a long way. Also, maltose seems to brown more easily and evenly (Maillard reaction) than other sugars, which is why I like it on bagels. (The shine actually comes primarily from the gelatinization of surface starch that occurs during boiling -- with or without malt, sugar, honey, baking soda, lye, etc.).

Finally, malt syrup is only about 15% water, so for our purposes, weights are equivalent. However, I find that the powder tends to clump when I try to dissolve it, so I use powder in my doughs (added to the dry ingredients) and syrup when I'm boiling bagels.

I really don't worry too much about the diastatic/nondiastatic distinction and haven't found it to make a perceptible difference in my baking.

Stan
www.nybakers.com

PS, Joy, please give Jerry and Aaron my warmest regards (plus a bunch for yourself!). Love your baking!

Cyberider's picture
Cyberider

Finally got around to baking some.  A very soft dough and bread.  My elderly mother said she remembered Vienna bread with sesame seeds.  Guess I can add some next time.

hanseata's picture
hanseata

I didn't have much time for extra baking lately, but I hope this will change in the future, so that I can participate in this challenge again.

 

joyfulbaker's picture
joyfulbaker

Thanks for the kind words, the tip on spelt and whole wheat flour, even more, for the regards, Stan.  Tomorrow I'm bringing the bagels and bialys to Aaron's in S.F. for the family fest.  He's halfway between Adina and family in San Mateo and us in Santa Rosa.  Aaron promised whitefish salad (Jerry's favorite) as takeout from the new S.F.  eatery, Wise Son's Deli.  Happy Father's Day!

Joy

Nici's picture
Nici

This was such an easy bread to make with great results - tasty and light.  I made it into 16 rolls of about 65g each, with sesame seed topping and poppy seed, and some plain, all delicious.  As others have said this is a keeper !