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Chad Robertson "Tartine Bread" masterclass video

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PiPs's picture
PiPs

Chad Robertson "Tartine Bread" masterclass video

Great Chad Robertson video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIIjV6s-0cA

Cheers,
Phil

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Thanks for the link Phil. It's a great help to see a baker working with their dough. Sometimes I see comment here that the tools we rely on, scales and such, are not needed, that bread has been made for thousands of years without them. What such commenters neglect is that people regularly saw bread being made,  handled it themselves and learned what the dough feels like and how it behaves. Clips like this on YouTube are such a gift to those unfamiliar with handling bread dough.

suzyr's picture
suzyr

Thank you for posting this. So great, he makes it look so easy...

Regards,

Suzy

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I have it also on my organic einkorn flour.  Looks like a European union stars in an organic leaf.   Anyone know the name of the flour?

PiPs's picture
PiPs

Think this is it Mini,

http://www.clausmeyer.dk/en/grupe___meyer_flour.html

Cheers,
Phil 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

First time without a starter.  For the next loaf one can skip the buttermilk and use a little pate fermente from the first batch.  :)

spsq's picture
spsq

He didn't preheat his dutch oven?  Can someone explain why not?

varda's picture
varda

I also noticed he didn't preheat.   Everytime I use a dutch oven I get burned trying to get the dough into it, or deflate the loaf by dropping it because I don't want to get burned.   I see this guy makes great loaves without preheating.   So that alone made this video extremely helpful.  Thanks for posting.  -Varda

longhorn's picture
longhorn

Nice to see Chad with his own dough and his techniques. I too was intrigued he did not heat the DO. But not surprised for the hot DO is both dangerous and a burned loaf issue...

Thanks!

Jay

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

Somebody just posted here a few days ago (or was I surfing back further?) about NOT preheating the DO for Tartine or NKB.  They posted pix of beautiful loaves done that way.  

I've been wondering: If not preheated, then how about a stainless steel  DO bottom overturned over your dough on a stone?  I currently use a preheated ceramic/cast iron DO bottom overturned on my stone -- a bit cumbersome in a small wall oven.  Stainless would heat up fast (like conventional breadpans do), but perhaps slow enough to allow more spring than the blast of radiant heat that loaves get from that preheated cast iron helmet.  Might try that this weekend....

 

longhorn's picture
longhorn

The topic of not preheating has definitely been discussed in the past. I personally don't like the results as much and I have had definite sticking issues with the loaves glueing themselves to the pan. Not a pretty sight to remove! I suspect the heavy cornmeal serves two pursposes of protecting the bottom from burning and eliminating the sticking problem. 

I also personally prefer ceramic cloches but that is probably because I have them and they seem to have a slightly "gentler" heat. And I do preheat them to about 450 to 465 dependng on the bread I am baking.

A stainless lid is fine. So is a bowl or an aluminum dome from say a roasting pan. All you have to do is trap the moisture - but you would like the size of the dome to be reasonably close to the size of the finished loaf in order to maximize the benefit from the steam. The key is getting a good fit/seal - the better the better!

Good luck!

Jay

 

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

Wow, good point Jay.  Anything that seals, yes.  And we have some nice deep stainless bowls we bought from Whole Foods because they sit perfectly inside the rim of a (well weighted) 5 gallon bucket -- for providing our dogs with water.  I think I'll wash out one of those tomorrow and try that over my my loaf on the stone. 

One thing about using a pre-heated iron dutch oven as a cover over a baking stone is baking multiple loaves:  After one's done I have to put the DO back in to re-heat it.  Makes for longer than I'd like to be leaving the oven on.  Our power company isn't that needy.

 

longhorn's picture
longhorn

I am lucky! I actually have three ovens in my kitchen so I have spare ovens for keeping my cloche lids hot. One of the beauties of a steel bowl is it is thin and has minimal heat up time. And the stone is already hot so!!!

Try it! You will (I think) like it!

Jay

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Phil,

Thanks for the video.  It really helps to see him shape the loaf in his unique way.  

Wondering what changes, if any, to his formula will result from using that different flour....Kind of like what happened when MC got Rubaud to try something different with his 'standard' procedure....Bread history in the making :-)

Janet

PiPs's picture
PiPs

Hi Janet

I'm fascinated/mesmerised by his shaping technique ... never seen anyone shape like that before.

From what I have read, he is looking into lot of "ancient grains" and developing breads based on them ... we wait and see.

Phil

longhorn's picture
longhorn

Hi Phil! Shaping is amazingly no longer so  magic to me. As enlightening as you found the shaping, I don't feel it was uniquely different from what I have seen Peter Reinhart or Mac McConnel (SFBI) do. The more you have a touch for the dough the less magical it becomes. Yet, on the other side, I know it can seem so intimidating. It really helps to watch a master up close and personal, I think, and to learn the touch/feel of great dough. When the dough is right, that kind of shaping is easy. If it is not right, one can end up wearing the loaf!  :o) The difference can seem very subtle but...if the dough is right, it can be easy and if it is wrong......

I was intrigued that the loaf they showed was baked far short of his Tartine loaves in SF.

Hang in there!

Jay

SCruz's picture
SCruz

I preheat my DO when I bake and often got little burns. I bought lined leather welders gloves -- $10 -- that cover your wrist and half your forearm. You can get them at any hardware store. You can't hold a hot dutch oven tightly or for a long time, but for the quick transfer or removal of a lid they're terrific. Easy fix, inexpensive, and no more burns at all.

 

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

Having watched the video many times, I was inspired to try a much wetter dough than I normally make. Here's the result -

=== SOURDOUGH FLAX SEED BOULE ===

For well over a year I've been baking boules in my cast iron dutch ovens without preheating and I was interested that, in this video, Chad Robertson didn't preheat the DO either. That's a change from the instructions in his book.

I don't use proofing baskets. Instead, I let my dough have the final proof directly in the dutch oven. I try to match the volume of the dough to the size of my dutch oven so it fills the pot.

=== PROOFED DOUGH READY TO BAKE ===

 

Here are the loaves in the oven about 5 minutes after being uncovered. The dough is just starting to color...

=== FLAX SEED SOURDOUGH BOULE 25 MINUTES INTO BAKING CYCLE ===

 

And here's the end result for one of the loaves...

=== FLAX SEED SOURDOUGH BOULE AT END OF THE BAKE ===

 

Chad Robertson is truly a master baker. Kudos to the OP for the link. Every time I watch it I learn a little bit more. Thanks!

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

....they're so high in the DO after proofing, those Lodge combo DO lids must be deeper than I thought to accommodate even that small, but clearly adequate, level of spring you got.  They do look lovely.  Wish I could taste 'em...

 

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

...it is a 2-quart capacity DO and I use an upside-down cast iron skillet as the lid - like this

I think the camera angle slightly exaggerates the height of the unbaked dough; the top of the boule was just slightly cresting over the top of the DO when it was slashed & loaded into the oven.

TFL member ehanner told me the interior height of the lodge 3-qt combo cooker is about 4.25". Although my DO is smaller capacity, it's height is the same as the 3-qt combo cooker (the combo cooker simply has a wider base). With the skillet as the top, I have an interior height of about 4.5".

During the bake, I got really nice oven spring though the loaf was very close to the top of the skillet when I uncovered it.

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

Aha.  I get it know.  Lucky that your skillet makes a worthwhile seal on the DO.  Finding a pair that fit so tightly would be pretty tricky.  But you've got it...and it obviously works!

 

SCruz's picture
SCruz

And you had no trouble with sticking? Do you put corn meal on the bottom and sides? I find that with repeated use there is very little seasoning left in the DO and it's hard to imagine that it doesn't stick.

Jerry

Santa Cruz

 

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

...I lightly grease the DO with a solid fat (I use home rendered lard; if you're adverse to pig fat you could use butter). This helps the dough rise during the final proof as well as reseasoning my non-enameled DO when the bread bakes. I also scatter a thin layer of coarse corn grits in the bottom of the pot, topped with a round of parchment paper. This prevents sticking and scorching of the loaf's bottom during the bake.

If you want a more detailed explanation of this approach (with photos), see www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20715/baking-bread-cast-iron-no-preheat-method comment 145053

In the video (at about the 4 minute 10 second mark) Chad Robertson uses corn meal to prevent sticking (but no parchment paper - master bakers don't need parchment paper!). His dough rises in bannetons so there's no greasing of the pot.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

 proofing in the DO for 2 hrs and then retard it in the fridge for up to 24 hours.  I bring it out of the fridge for 1 hour while the oven gets hot (500 F) ,  I spray my DO with PAM and then line the bottom with parchment before the bread goes in for proof.   No sticking and perfect dark brown with a cracked crust.  Here is a loaf of St Paddy's day bread I Baked this morning.  I thought it interesting that he uses such young starter/levain and has 4 hrs for development as a result.

 

ml's picture
ml

Chad Robertsons says he is using 85% extraction flour.

Does anyone know if that is the only flour, or what % he might be using?

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

This is a fairly wild guess, but I think it's safe to assume that the dough in the video is 100% hi-E.  His basic Tartine CB formula calls for 9:1 ratio of white to whole wheat.  That combo adds up to a hi-E flour.  Rather than specify hi-E that many readers wouldn't be able to find, he has you concoct it as a 9:1.  Based on that, there's no reason that I can think of to believe he's using anything but hi-E in the Danish masterclass.

On the subject of hi-E flours, I ran down a Heartland Mill document online yesterday (from a Destiny Organics website) that gives a bit more detail about some of their flours than Heartland's own website does.  On p. 11, they list Golden Buffalo (essentially a hi-E, although Heartland never explicitly calls it that) has having 14% protein.  Wow.  That's stronger than the label says (~10.5%) on the GB bin at our local food coop.

tdb

ml's picture
ml

In looking around, I read that a 3rd book by Chad Robertson is in the works, focusing on ancient grains.

No info on due date.

ml

ml's picture
ml

FYI

85% high extraction flour from Central Milling is Min. 11% protein

tartine-y's picture
tartine-y

he mentions only letting the leaven grow after feeding for 1.5-2hr before he uses it to start the batch of bread. in the bible - sorry, book! - he suggests leaving this 8hr or so (overnight). does he do it at a higher temp when he does it for such a short period? (by the way, can you do the leaven process in the fridge, anyone know?)
ALso, the final structural folds he does are more complex than what he recommends in the book - anyone know why? do those extra tweaks/folds on top of the 'package' add something to the final loaf?
thanks for the chance to see him in action.

Bread Head's picture
Bread Head

Have you got any answers yet to your questions?  I have the same ones?

Whygee's picture
Whygee

+1

PiPs's picture
PiPs

I am guessing he is using a small 2hr expansion of the final leaven before he mixes it. I imagine a ratio of 2:1:1 (leaven : water : flour)

He mentions doing this in 'Tartine Bread' if the overnight leaven build has progressed too far or in warmer than ideal conditions. The final expansion will dilute the acidity and allow him to use the leaven at an earlier state.

In the book 'The Bread Builders' he is described using this technique as well.

The final shaping is indeed different from the book but looks similar to how they shape their 'batard' country loaf at the bakery. This shaping would give the dough additional strength required to hold the longer shape.The shaping in the book is still suitable for a round 'boule' shape.

Hope this helps ...
Phil 

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

Inspiring video. Made my day that even The Master had to help a boule out of the banneton.  

Speaking, as he does, of Danish flours ... just so happens that the following link showed up in one of my periodic Google Scholar search emails today (driven by keywords not even remotely connected to flours and baking, interestingly enough -- is Google worming its way into .... never mind).

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/RE43341.html

A world of baking info from the Danes in that 39 pages of patent reissue, even if the product isn't one anyone here would rush out to buy. Got a grin out of the fuzzy loaf/crumb shots, compared to the lovely pix that routinely grace TFL :-)

Tom

lumos's picture
lumos

Thank you for the link for the brilliant video.  I only noticed just now.

 

 

 

 

 

debrike's picture
debrike

Very nice video, only one thing I don't like, - somebody just "kill" that bread with that ugly cuting thenique...:((

sweetbird's picture
sweetbird

It's so interesting to see how this differs in many ways from the book. The loaves are gorgeous and it's a treat to see him at work. Thanks, Phil!

Janie

longhorn's picture
longhorn

Psychologal researchers have found that people routinely describe processes that can be quite different from what they actually do - a danger with all "instructions". While what Chad does in the video is rather radically different in certain respects from the book, my observation is tempered by the fact that he clearly considered the book a modification of his technique to meet home baking needs. Thus I am left to wonder whether what we saw in the video is closer to what he normally does - or an evolution of his technique????

In any event, I agree the vid is a treat!

Jay