The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Doyon vs American Baking Systems

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jwilder's picture
jwilder

Doyon vs American Baking Systems

I'm lucky enough to be moving into a new, larger bakery space and am able to custom-design my new kitchen. Right now I'm a start-up bakery that outgrew my home kitchen, so I rented a space that has 3 home-use ovens - no commercial stuff. With  my new space I want commercial ovens, and I'm stumped. I've no idea where to begin. I've heard that standard convection ovens are really hard on breads and pastries (90% of what I produce), so I'm wary of convection. What I know I need is a deck oven unit to handle multiple items at a time - pastry, bread, muffins, etc, with steam inject in at least one, and separate controls on all decks. 

I've heard Doyon has some kind of air flow system that's supposed to gentler? And I've also heard Doyon is notorious for problems and very unhelpful in the customer service department. Any truth to either of these claims? Has anyone ever used a Doyon oven? How does it compare to more common brands?

I'm also looking into American Baking Systems. They're much more reasonably priced than Doyon, but again, I've never baked on any of their equipment. How does it compare to Doyon? Better, worse, average? 

Are there any other brands I should consider? Any particular details I should be looking for? 

Also, on home-use ranges there's a marked difference between gas and electric ovens. Is that the case with commercial ovens as well? Is gas preferred? I have the option to have the builder run gas, or not if I don't need it, however it's a significant expense. 

Thanks so much for all the advice!

ananda's picture
ananda

Hello jwilder,

How exciting for you to be moving into your own purpose-built bakery!

I'm UK based, so am not able to offer full advice on your questions about Doyon and ABS.   It looks to me that ABS ovens are solid and reliable in the manner of Tom Chandley ovens over here in the UK.   The Doyon deck ovens do look lovely pieces of kit.   I did click on the Installation Manual here:

http://www.doyon.qc.ca/imports/pdf/en/artisan.pdf

It appears you install these yourself.   Is that standard practice in the US?   In UK oven manufacturers take responsibility for commissioning the ovens themselves, although all power and water connections have to be in place ready.

If you want deck ovens these work by conduction primarily, through the bottom heat, and radiation from the top heat.   I cannot see any reference to air flow systems on the deck ovens, and it is a feature I do not associate with decks.   Personally, I don't like fan ovens, but that is because I primarily bake artisan breads on the oven sole.

Yes, gas and electric sources of power are very different commercially too.   Again speaking personally, I much prefer electric.   The bottom heat supply from electric is much more solid than from gas.   Oil is a good heating source!   Gas is my preferred option for cooking on the stove top.   It may be worth having a gas supply installed if you are going to be cooking as well as baking.

Good luck with the venture!

Best wishes

Andy

PastryPaul's picture
PastryPaul

We have deck ovens and doyon convections, with a carrousel on the way. It seems to be a matter of taste as to which is preferred. My personal preference for all-around use is the convection oven. Pastries, cheesecakes, and breads all come out fine, provided you remember to flip them around halfway through the bake.

I like the convection oven's high load for a small footprint, and the ease of pulling pans in and out. Even a 6-sheet pan convection can pump out a significant amount of product. However, I am looking forward to the carousel's delivery. I haven't used one since pastry school, but our volume was never high enough to warrant one.

If I can pass along a very valuable piece of wisdom that was passed to me years ago... Get the smallest oven that will do the job.

Cheers and Good Luck!

 

JustinB's picture
JustinB

I don't know if this helps, but we use a ABS-200 Spiral Mixer in our bakery and have never had any problems with it :) Have made 400# batches and it can handle it all. I've had a lot of experience with other commercial mixer brands too, but ABS was my fave. I know you are looking at ovens (never used an ABS one, only Paviller and TMB), but their mixers are freakin' awesome quality.

PeterinVT's picture
PeterinVT

I've had several issues with convection ovens.  When I've baked with sheet pans, the airflow is partially block and you need to rotate the pans. Another problem is the convected air can dry out the goods before they cooked.  

I've found that keeping a half hotel pan of water on the bottom of the oven has improved the dehydration issue, but in general I don't recommend convection systems.    

Gas will be significantly cheaper when it comes to fuel costs.   However, if you are doing high production of cookies, I'd recommend an electric conveyor oven such as a Holmann(Star).  With their mini-conveyor,  I was able to produce 200 cookies an hour with a $2000 oven that only weighs about 25 pounds.  You can stack the ovens and double production on the same counter space.  It is also a big sell when the customers can see the cookies come out of the oven.

juli's picture
juli

I use a Garland convection oven for all of my pastry, cookies and quick breads and wow what a difference to a home oven/deck oven.  My  pastry and pies bake up crisp and with beautiful color.  My muffins have the nice crowns and moist center.  I have just invested in a Unisource steam oven for my breads.  I agree with PastryPaul:   best oven with the smallest footprint, and for the best price.   http//www. unisource.com

Good luck with your new endeavor!

 

Oldbelle's picture
Oldbelle

Hello JW,

Doyon makes  a nice oven.  For breads, a deck (stone bottom) oven is best, but you do need steam injection of some kind to truly have a great finish to your bread.  doyon is based in the Toronto area.  The local service guys in PA, K&D will come and flip a tripped breaker, and leave you with a $375 bill.  They and most others simply have little to no experience to truly help you out.  The home base in Canada has been working with us for over two years and we finally shut one of three decks off, because it keeps tripping breakers.  I even tried to get them to come in and when the service manager was in PA he could not find the time to visit us.  I offered to pay change fees, time, travel.  But they never followed up to see if they could visit later and fix the problem.  They did send some new wireing etc...  The problem is they all want to get paid weather they fix your oven or not.  They have NO incentive to get it done right, now i may be wrong, but this has been our experienc.  I have become very good at repairing most equipment in the kitchen, because i dont bake, i reapair things for a living.  Dont have any experience with other steam injection ovens, but suggest you keep looking.  Also, convection ovens and bread are usually not the best combination unless your doors dont seal well etc...

Good luck. Oldbelle, you can contact me via The Fresh Loaf

paneman's picture
paneman

Hello,

I am opening a new Artisan Bread Company in Florida. I am running a new ABS spiral 80 and ABS 3 pan 4 deck oven. I am a Exec Pastry Chef of 27 years of big 4 and 5 diamond resorts. I have a ton of experience with many deck ovens. I would have to say that the current deck ovens that ABS are turning out right now are hands down, AWESOME! I bake at 450F on top heat and 425 on bottom heat. I get the most beautiful burnished deep brown color, just what Im looking for. 45 minute bake for 24 oz levain loaves, no turning the loaves during baking. This oven was 19,000 delivered and set up. Cannot beat the deal and quality. heavy duty build. wonderfully even bake, no burnt bottoms and under-baked sides, wow, just fabulous! just to give you an idea on how dependable these are, Disney has Many of these same ovens and continues to install them around their venues. Believe me, the deep pockets that Disney has, they can buy anything they want.