The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

my first attempt at 100% rye bread and some up-to-date news

  • Pin It
codruta's picture
codruta

my first attempt at 100% rye bread and some up-to-date news

I didn't plan to start this year with a bread I'm not very proud of... but a lot of things happened lately (good things!) and I can't write here as often as I would like.

In February I held a workshop here in town, with 30 participants, a introduction to sourdough bread very well received.  You can see pictures here (click for link) and a video (sorry, no English subtitles) here (click for link).

Then, in March, I made breads for an event, a bread tasting event sponsored by a big local law firm in the honour of their lady employees and lady clients. I made a total of 12 breads of 6 types, 2 loafs/type, a lot of planning and work for me (a home baker with one small gas oven) but I got a huge satisfaction in the end. The breads were a hit, all of them, and I had a really good quality time talking about each formula and story behind the bread with the ladies present. I never knew lawyers can be so warm and charming people :)) I wrote about the type of breads I made in a post on my Romanian blog, link here (click) and you can see the photos in that post or on my flickr page (link here) and here is a photo with some of them.

In the meantime, I baked some very good miche (david's formula) link here, 70% rye and 30% whole spelt bread (link here) and, my family latest obsession, Kalamata olives, lemon zest and herbes de Provence Sourdough Bread, which I made 2-3 times/week in the last 3 weeks. The formula is inspired by PiPs (Phil) post, with small modifications, and the result is quite memorable.

enough with self-praise, back to today's post subject

100% rye is been on my mind since I can't remember when. I become very found of rye bread in the last year, but I never attempted more than 80% rye. After drooling at the rye breads posted here by Andy, Varda, Phil, Mini, just to name a few, I finally decided to conquer my fear and try a 100% rye bread. I have to mention that I don't have a proper pan for it  (I used a small silicone one) and my oven is moody when it comes to low temperatures. I had in mind Andy's formula for Borodinsky, but I used a little altus too in the final dough and replaced the whole-wheat with rye flour. I halved his formula and the result is shown in the photos below. Everything was fine until I put the dough in the oven. I placed the silicone pan in a bigger metal pan and I covered the second pan with aluminum foil (from the beginning), and the free form I covered it with an old pan, after 10 minutes of steam.

I couldn't resist the impulse of cutting and tasting the bread while it was still hot (I promise I don't do this on a regular basis, but this time the smell was too good to be true...) and I felt in love with the aroma. I could distinct the honey (I replaced the molasses with honey, cause I could not find molasses here) and malt (I think it was the malt that gave it such a pleasant smell and taste), and coriander. I'm sure the taste is a success, but I can't say the same thing about the "look". I don't know how it is on the inside, I only ate the ends of both breads... but what can I do in the future to improve the way it looks?

It didn't rise much in the oven, and I don't think it was over-proofed. My rye was very active and I kept an eye on it the whole time. First fermentation was 1 hour and second fermentation max 40 min.

I'll upload a picture tomorrow, with the crumb.

My guesses on what did wrong are one or more of the following:

(1) I used too little amount of dough for the pan I had (~510g for a silicone pan of 23.5 x 9.5 cm x 6.5 cm height),

(2) the fact that I put the silicone pan in a bigger pan created an buffer-zone which was not hot enough

(3) the sillicone pan was not a good choice (I didn't like working with it, I'll never use it again, I don't know why they even invented it?! :))

 I'm interested in your opinions. Don't be gentle, I want to learn and to improve my next baking.

 

Thank you all for helping me so far!

codruta

 

UPDATE: CRUMB PHOTO

The crumb not how it should be, but I know I'm on the right track. The crust tastes better than the crumb (is sweeter and with more flavor), and fresh is better than toasted. The crumb it's a bit dense and gummy, but not sticky (I could slice it without the crumb sticking to the knife). I have to learn to set the oven temperature right. I don't have this problem at wheat breads, but with rye I'm not confident yet.

How do you know when the crumb is fully baked? and is wrong if I use my baking stone, preheat it and leave it in the oven under the pan?

that's about it, for now. Next week Ill give another try. I still have malt and a lot of altus (the free form loaf had a very thick crust, so I froze it and I'll use it for altus in the future bakes)

Comments

breadforfun's picture
breadforfun

Hi Codruta,

Your loaves are beautiful. I especially like the way you scored the miche, and the string-of-pearls couronne. (I tend to make the individual "pearls" too large, so they become fairly indistinct after baking, but I haven't had the chance to try very often.)  You deserve to be quite proud.

-Brad

 

codruta's picture
codruta

Hi, Brad. Have you seen susan's (wild yeast) tutorial for shaping a couronne? For me it has been very helpful. I don't make it very often, this was the third time in the last 2 years, but it makes a very nice present and it's quite fun to make :)
Codruta

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Hi codruta.

Your work is very accomplished. Everything looks so pleasing to the eyes.

Well done!

Michael

PS. thanks for your comment on my blog. much appreciated.

codruta's picture
codruta

Thank you, Michael. Nice to hear from you. I visit your blog every now and then, wish you could post more often :)
Codruta

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

Spectaculos.

Jeff

ananda's picture
ananda

Hello Codruta,

Your workshop event looked fantastic, and the breads showcased above are exemplary.   Great and exciting baking!

As for the Borodinsky, you have identified where it all went wrong.   Honestly, you are really close to producing a great loaf here...and it is at the baking stage where things have not worked out.   Firstly you need a pan which is relatively narrow and tall.   The side walls will then give plenty of support to the wet and delicate paste as it bakes.   The difficulty is that these shapes of tin are not easy to find.

And the scaling weight should have been 850g paste for the loaf pan, so you did indeed scale short.

Don't give up, you are nearly there; I can tell from your description of the rye sour, and the aroma of the baking loaf.

All good wishes

Andy

codruta's picture
codruta

It means a lot for me what you said. Thank you, Andy. Your encouragements are always well received and give me confidence.

I know I made mistakes with this rye but I have no intention to give up. First thing, I'll buy another pan and hopefully the results will be better next time.

Thank you, all the best to you too

codruta

varda's picture
varda

Codruta,   It's so nice to see your post.   The picture of all the breads from your workshop is very impressive.   You seem to be going more down the bread path and perhaps are closer to opening a bakery.     Your 100% rye looks good to me and I'm sure will get better with more trials.   Wonderful baking!  -Varda

Addendum - I see you want constructive criticism.    Not sure I have that but I do have a question.   How did you do the free form loaf?    My "dough" was really a not very stiff paste and I could not have formed it into a loaf.   For my post Eliabel said that in Russia you would not see cracks in a Borodinsky.   I see on Phil's post, the same comment was made by another person, who then went on to say that cracks indicate underproofing.    Since your bread is 100% rye, rather than 80%, the situation may be different. 

codruta's picture
codruta

Thank you Varda for your comment. I hope that my path in life will include a bakery one day.

About the rye bread: The dough was moderate stiff. It looked very much like this: http://lunetta-mama.livejournal.com/71595.html, and I followed masha's (lunetta mama) instructions for "shaping" the pan loaf, and I used the same technique for the free form, using flour instead of water on hands and on board. I proofed the dough in a banneton with a protective cloth, seam side up. I don't think free form is a good idea with this type of bread. The crust is too thick, but my bread might be not the best example to judge (the ratio crumb - crust is not optimum) I baked it directly on the baking stone, and I covered it with a foil and a pan. The bottom got very thick and hard to cut (but oh, sooo tasty!!!)

About the rye paste: I noticed that if I use an austrian flour (brand Verival bio) with the same amount of water, the paste is pretty stiff, but if I use a romanian flour, the dough is sticky and imposssible to shape. this time I used the austrian flour.

eliabel's picture
eliabel

Codruta, if you allow me to do that, I will tell to Masha (Lunetta-mama)  that her post was helpful to you. She would be delighted, I am sure.

Speaking about the crust, in old days in Russia they used to "clean the face" (umyvat) of the baked bread, passing quickly a wet hand (cold water, not hot water) over the breads' superficie, when the bread was out of the oven, in order to tenderize the crust.

codruta's picture
codruta

Eliabel, yes, please tell Masha that her rye posts are very helpful for me. Very helpful. She knows me and she knows I like her blog :)

Interesting about the "umyvat", my grandma did the same thing with the wheat breads (huge round breads baked in a fire wood oven... good times :)

eliabel's picture
eliabel

Codruta, I will.

Once I've seen the same procedure with a wheat bread too in Russia. An old peasant woman did that to her white zavarka bread.

varda's picture
varda

Codruta, I followed the link to Masha's blog.   I could not have done what she was doing with the consistency of the paste I had.    Wonder if there is a hydration difference relative to flour.   Interesting what you are saying about the Austrian versus Romanian flour.   So hard to duplicate a type of bread with different flour.   Thanks for the details.  -Varda

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Codruta,

What a beautiful display of breads.  The slide show and video of your bread class were great!  The pictures were so nice and I am really impressed with how many people you had.  Did you make up all the leaven that they used?  Must have been a big batch for so many loaves.   How nice that they got to bake their first loaves in a wood fired oven.

I did understand a few words on the video  ' sour dough, stretch and fold and fermente'  :-).  Your Romanian language is very pretty to listen to.  I had never heard it spoken before and was surprised how much it sounds similar to Italian.

Looks like everyone really had a good time in the class - even when smelling the starter.  Some looked hesitant to smell it.

Your rye loaf looks great.  My first loaf was like yours too - not enough dough in the pan and I didn't get the oven temp. right.  Yours sounds like it tasted delicious despite the appearance being different than you wanted.  I am surprised you were able to shape the dough into a free standing loaf.  My dough never would have held it's shape.

Take Care,

Janet

 

codruta's picture
codruta

Hi Janet. I made all the leaven they used, about 7 kg of leaven if I remember correctly.

I intend to repeat my rye loaf next week. I hope I'll find a proper pan till then. I searched in a few stores, but all I could find was teflon, 25 x 12 x 8cm. I didn't buy it, so, I'm still looking. Read what I replied to Varda. I'm starting to think if my dough was too thick?!

codruta

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Codruta,

 That's a huge amount of leaven.  :-0  How on earth did you store it all before the class? 

Janet

codruta's picture
codruta

I prepared the leaven a night before class (in 3 batches), scale it and divided it in 35 individual plastic recipients, let it ferment till the next morning... huge amount of work. I had a girl that helped me, but it was not easy. We scaled the water, the flours, the salt, for 30-35 peoples, prepared everything on the tables. Next time I'll know better and I'll accept to work with maximum 10 students at once. :)

codruta

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Codruta,

Somehow we have to learn some things the hard way...but you had never done this before so how could you have know?  You learned very quickly :-)

Janet

eliabel's picture
eliabel

Codruta, almost incredibly beautiful loaves!

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Such handsome looking loaves, Codruta! Rye looks good to me. keep on it, and you should get there , before me :)

Nice avatar pix BTW ;)

 

codruta's picture
codruta

Thank you, Khalid! I'll try another rye next week. I have to use my malt and altus :D

thanx :D

lumos's picture
lumos

Those loaves look really great! All of them!

And congratulations on the successes of the tasting event and the workshop. Gosh, you've been busy....! :p  I thoroughly enjoyed the photos and really wish I were there so that I could steal your splendid scoring techniques!

best wishes,

lumos

 

p.s.   I love the look of your new Romanian blog, too.  :)

codruta's picture
codruta

Hi Lumos, I missed you! Nice to read your comment :) Yeas, I've been busy, and I still am, this weekend I have to make 10 breads for the buffet of an art exhibition (this time I volunteer, cause my boyfriend is the artist :) take a peek here (click)

ps. Is something changed at my romanian blog, since the last time you entered? aside from my photo? :P

hugs, codruta

lumos's picture
lumos

Well, I missed you, too! Been wondering what you're up to. So glad to see you back and to learn you're gradually fulfilling your dream of turning your love of bread making into a business. I'm so happy for you. :)

Is the photo (your breads are always beautiful but you're such a beauty yourself, too!)  the only think you changed on your blog?  Looks different...but the last time I saw it was when you organized the World Bread Day, so I can't really trust my memory....:p

btw, the latest entry of olive sourdough bread looks great, too. :)

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

All the loaves look professional and perfect!

codruta's picture
codruta

Thank YOU, txfarmer!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

:)   

codruta's picture
codruta

thank you, Mini! Good news, I received the austrian flours!!! I'm so happy and eager to try them :D

codruta

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

that I have seen better looking bread on TFL Condruta.  Your bread and other baked goods always look so inviting.  You've got the touch!  Thanks for sharing.

codruta's picture
codruta

thank you for the nice comment. I hope I'll have some more to share in the future :D

codruta

codruta's picture
codruta

Thanks a lot for all your comments. I really missed posting on TFL!

Janet, Varda, I'll get back to you later today.

codruta

 

codruta's picture
codruta

I uploaded a crumb photo taken after 40 hours after baking.