The Fresh Loaf

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help with ww bread - wheat gluten/dough enhancer -....?

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crazyknitter's picture
crazyknitter

help with ww bread - wheat gluten/dough enhancer -....?

I have been making a 100% whole wheat recipe that is really GOOD!  But, interestingly enough it calls for wheat gluten and dough enhancer.   My family likes it - I like it.  But, leave it to me to try to ask some probing questions.  With this recipe I get awesome gluten development hands down each and every time - no fail (made it well over 30 times).

I pulled out another recipe.  This time, it doesn't have any of the wheat gluten or dough enhancer.  Just a little bit of sweetener, salt, yeast and flour - oh, and water.  As I worked the dough the gluten did not want to develop - or at least part of it.  I could get some gluten strands developed but I couldn't get a good window pane test, but it appeared I had over kneaded just trying to get the rest to develop.  By the way:I mill my own flour, AND within a matter of hours of making my bread).

Almost all the recipes I ever run across that have 100% ww flour, always call for some white flour.   Can 100% ww bread  be made without adding wheat gluten and/or dough enhancer?

Any suggestions from anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

You can make 100% whole wheat bread without a dough enhancer or VWG,   I suggest you try one of the recipes from Peter Reinhart,   Artisan Breads every day.  It has a couple of whole wheat recipes that are much easier, in my opinion, than the ones in his earlier books.  In "No More Bricks, Successful Whole Grain Bread Made Quick & Easy" Lori Veits is in favor of enhancers, but suggests that VWG doesn't make the dough rise any higher, but instead allows the dough to maintain its rise a little longer so you have a greater window of time to get it in the oven, before it begins to collapse.   

rayel's picture
rayel

I have been baking 100% whole wheat breads since the 80's, with help only from Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book. Wh. Wht. flours vary, with  finer grinds producing lighter, higher loaves, but I have been very happy with the spring  from coarser flours as well. The "magic" is a 2nd rise, before loaves are shaped and proofed. This method seems to make up for a window pane that sometimes is not perfect, after a somewhat longish knead. I use pre-milled flour, with about 14% protein.

I see vwg, on many commercial whole wheat bread labels, I guess they require a level of certainty, and constancy from their huge batches.

Ray

hanseata's picture
hanseata

to the dough that is not really necessary? 100% whole wheat breads rise just fine without either extra wheat gluten (it has enough) or dough enhancer. I bake Peter Reinhart's 100% Whole Wheat Hearth Bread and the Whole Wheat Sandwich Loaf regularly (both from "Whole Grain Breads"), without any of those additives.

Vital wheat gluten I add only to 100% rye breads like Vollkornbrot.

Karin

crazyknitter's picture
crazyknitter

As I was looking over some other threads, I learned one other thing about making whole wheat and about the autolyse step.   The autolyse step is to help soft the the particles of the wheat kernel (bran) that cuts the gluten strands.  I think that is exactly what i was seeing because I saw a lot of the gluten developed in this loaf. 

I appreciate all your comments.  I don't necessarily like to keep in my cupboard and always use the VWG, but I did it because i was following someones' recipe;  But, I don't just want to just follow a recipe, I want to know every in and out to make my own bread and to succeed.    That is why I asked the question. 

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Another consideration -  the taste of whole wheat breads improves considerably through long fermentation and cold retardation. That is true for many types of doughs, but especially for 100% whole wheat.

Karin

crazyknitter's picture
crazyknitter

I have definitely been noticing this with my own breads. 

We were invited over to someone's house for dinner, and I remember thinking that the bread tasted good - but amazingly enough I was able to decipher the difference that allowing to 'ferment' does.   It brings out the undertones of flavor in the wheat. 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Ray, not sure I understand. You make the dough, let rise for the first proof ( are you shooting for just short of doubling ) then you degas and let rise a 2nd time and again shoot for just short of doubling,  then degas, shape, and let rise the 3rd time?

rayel's picture
rayel

Hi Barryvabeach, Most of the breads in Laurel's book, require two rises, and a final proof. The first rise takes about 90 minutes, sometimes longer, it's a feely thing besides looking at volume, a finger press helps tell if longer is required, the second rise is about half the time, then de-gas, preshape, rest for 10 to 15 minutes, then shape and proof. The second rise helps ripen the dough, so if you have made a higher hydration dough than you might have intended, the second rise helps make it more workable, as well as more flavorful. The book has a yogurt bread that starts as an overnight sponge, (also one not requiring a sponge), and also offers longer and shorter timings with suggested temperatures etc. A terrific recipe is the buttermilk bread, which comes out especially soft and moist, a deluxe raisin, a Black Turtle bean bread which ups the protein and fiber. All wondeful.I hope you get to try this method, it simply works.

 Regards, Ray

 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Ray, thanks,  I will try it soon.