Whole grain flop and one success

My Black Bean Bread from Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book didn't hold up. The already flabby dough was trying to tell me  not to  add anymore liquid, but I went for it. Great bread, and I take some solace in the Black Bean I made before  this turning out really well, but this one has a saggy muffin top. It could have been worse I think.

The Deluxe Raisin, taken from the same book, restored some of my confidence. Still a little flabby at shaping time, it held its shape, though shrunk I think from the collosal oven spring at the beginning of the bake. This bread was baked nearly two months after the above bread. I used nearly all King Arthur's White whole wheat and some red.  Ray

This oven spring happened a couple of minutes after loading. I called my wife to look at this, and she said "will they stay like that.?" Well sort of.

Not a great crumb shot.   Ray