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Pizza Napoletana - Maggie Glezer's dough with modifications

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dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Pizza Napoletana - Maggie Glezer's dough with modifications

Three months ago, I made pizzas using Maggie Glezer's recipe for the dough. (See Pizza Napoletana) It made the best thin, crisp pizza I'd ever had. My blog on that pizza elicited many useful comments and suggestions. I incorporated some of them into the pizza I made this weekend. Thanks to Ross for the prompt to make sourdough pizza dough and to Sylvia for the mention of using a combination of bread flour and durum flour in the dough. I have taken Stan's noting the lower hydration of authentic naples-style pizza dough under advisement. I would note that, using bread flour rather than Italian Typo 00, my effective hydration is lower. (Higher protein flour absorbs more water than lower protein flours like Typo 00.)

Final Dough Ingredients

Wt.

Baker's %

KAF Bread Flour

375 g

88

KAF Fancy Durum

50 g

12

Active Firm Starter (50% hydration)

75 g

18

Instant yeast

1/8 tsp

0.1

Salt

10 g

2

Water, lukewarm

305

72

 Note: Since I calculated baker's percentages the “old fashioned way,” with the levain factored in as just another ingredient, the numbers are misleading. There is a total of 500 g of flour, really. Fifty grams of the flour is in the starter. The starter also contains 25 g of water, so the total water equals 330 g. Thus, the true hydration level of the dough is 66%. And, therefore, the durum flour and the pre-fermented flour are each 10% of the total flour.

So, a true representation of the Total Dough (ignoring the fact that the 50 g of flour in the starter consists of 35 g of AP, 10 g of WW and 5 g of rye flour), would be:

Total Dough Ingredients

Wt.

Baker's %

KAF Bread Flour

450 g

90

KAF Fancy Durum

50 g

10

Instant yeast

1/8 tsp

0.1

Salt

10 g

2

Water, lukewarm

330 g

66

Total

840 g

168.1

Method

  1. In a 6 qt mixing bowl, disperse the starter in the water. (Suggestion: Break the starter into marble-sized pieces and let them soak in the water for a few minutes to soften them. This will make dispersing the starter a lot easier.)

  2. In the bowl of a stand mixer, combine the flours, salt and yeast.

  3. Add the dissolved levain to the dry ingredients and mix with the paddle on Speed 1 for 1-2 minutes until the dough forms a shaggy mass on the paddle.

  4. Cover the mixer bowl and let it stand for 20-30 minutes.

  5. Switch to the dough hook, and mix for 3 minutes at Speed 2. The dough should clear the sides of the bowl but stick to the bottom. The dough will be tacky on the verge of sticky but will form an early window pane.

  6. Transfer the dough to a lightly floured board. Do a stretch and fold to strengthen the gluten a bit more, if needed. Round up the dough then flatten it into a rectangle.

  7. Divide the dough into 4 equal parts, and form each piece into a ball.

  8. Smear about a tablespoon of olive oil on the inside of four 1 qt. ZipLoc bags or other containers that can be sealed air-tight, and place a ball of dough in each. Close the containers tightly.

  9. At this point, the balls of dough can be refrigerated for 1 to 3 days before use or frozen for later use.

  10. If refrigerated, the dough balls should be allowed to warm to room temperature (about an hour) before use. If frozen, they should be thawed overnight in the refrigerator the day before use, then warmed on the bench for an hour before shaping.

  11. An hour before baking, preheat the oven to 500ºF (or hotter, if your oven goes higher). Have your baking stone in place.

  12. Remove one ball at a time from its container and shape it into a 10 inch round by your method of choice. (Optionally, brush the entire surface of the dough with olive oil. This will protect it somewhat from sogginess from wetter toppings.)

  13. Top the pizza as desired. (Note: Very light toppings will result in a crisp crust. Heavier toppings will result in a soft center crust. Yet heavier toppings will result in a soggy center crust.)

  14. Immediately transfer the pizza to your pre-heated baking stone and bake for 8-10 minutes, more or less until done.

  15. Remove the pizza from the oven to a cutting board. (Optionally, brush the exposed crust with olive oil to make it shiny or drizzle olive oil over the pizza for flavor.) Cut as desired and serve.

  16. Repeat steps 12-15 for additional pizzas.

I made substantially the same pizza as last time – olive oil, slivered garlic, chopped rosemary, sliced tomato and parmesan cheese added half way through an 11 minute bake at 500ºF on a pizza stone.

Ready to bake

Ready to slice and eat

The dough stretched thin enough to see through without tearing. It baked crisp with more chewiness to the crust than the original version. The center was crisp and rigid enough to support the toppings. It was delicious.

 Thanks to Ross, Sylvia, Stan and all the others who offerred suggestions the last time I made this pizza dough.

David

Submitted to YeastSpotting 

 

Comments

ananda's picture
ananda

The best pizzas are the most simple ones to me, David.   Yours looks so inviting.

The strong flour is, of course, not what would be used in the traditional dough.   But I can see you will gain greater tolerance using a stronger flour in conjunction with levain and durum flour, which Franko notes has a clear tendency to break down quite quickly.

Best wishes

Andy

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I will be making pizza dough with Typo 00 one of these days. I will lower the hydration to get a similar dough consistency, which seemed just right to me.

David

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi David,

A few weeks back I made a pizza using X Fancy durum flour at 20% that had a very tasty crust to it as well. I thought it gave a nice toasty flavour and good bite to the crust. I keep meaning to try making a pizza with starter but haven't gotten around to it yet, so your delicious looking pie is a great motivator for the next time it's pizza night. Thanks for the inspiration!

Franko

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The flavor of the crust was very good. There was little sourdough tang, but it did have a "toasty" flavor.

More spousal validation: My wife told me she wants to learn to make pizza dough herself. Hmmm ... Or was that a veiled complaint that I don't make pizza often enough?

David

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

Lovely pizza crust with your simple tasty toppings, David!  

The last pizza dough's I made had some with durum and some without the added durum.  

Trying both at the same time.  I noticed there was difference in the extensitivity of the dough.  The one with the added durum had more elasticity and just did not have the same extensitivity qualities as the one without the added durum.  I can't remember if it was an AP or BF I used.  I added very little durum flour.   I'll have to compare side by side again, just to make sure what I was observing. 

I like using both the KABF and KAAP...but do favor the KAAP.  

I have found a local Italian store here that carries the Caputo 00.  I find is a very nice tender pizza dough...but all in all..it can get expensive making a lot of pizza's, when fantastic ones can be made with my old standby KA flours.

Sylvia

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

My dough had a pretty good balance of extensibility and elasticity. It seems one could fine tune this by varying the proportions of durum and stronger flour and hydration. Hmmm ... and pH, and pre-ferment, and salt ... 

David

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

a few minutes while shaping between stretchings, relax time on the counter worked great. 

Sylvia 

varda's picture
varda

Your pizza looks fabulous and I love the idea of adding durum flour.   The last time I tried to follow you down the pizza path, things went awry, but all my fault of course.  So I will proceed with caution!  -Varda

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Proceed with perspicacity, Varda.

David

Syd's picture
Syd

Great looking pizza and interesting addition of the durum flour, David.  I have quite a lot on hand at the moment.  I have just acquired some Tipo OO, too.  I have been making all my pizza dough sourdough, recently (with a 24 hour retardation in the fridge) and have got excellent results.  Now I want to try adding the semolina to see what difference it makes.

 Best,

Syd

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Let us know your outcome if you use Tipo 00 and semolina. Watch out for excessive extensibility.

David

Syd's picture
Syd

Ah! that is the word I was wanting to use but temporarily forgot.  That is exactly what I have found with my (very limited) experience with the flour.  It is extremely extensible.  It is almost like that gloopy stuff kids play with ( you know, it looks like a huge booger, and you can throw it at the wall where it will momentarily stick then drop to the ground with no ill effect at all.  You can stretch it into all weird and wonderful shapes without it breaking).  You have now got me wondering why some flours are more extensible than others.  Perhaps a question for the general forum.  Anyway, I do know that too much extensibility, without any elasticity, is not a good thing.  More folds would resolve this problem, then?

Syd

wally's picture
wally

Mouth watering, and nicely browned from your bake.

That's a good piece of advice about letting the firm starter soak in water.  I've learned the hard way (a la panettone) that if you don't do that, you can end up with bb-shot sized pieces of starter after your mix that never are incorporated as they should be.

Nice bake,

Larry

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I find that small pieces of starter incorporate well, as long as they are very soft. The soaking does help. I cut the starter into pieces about marble size and let them soak in the water while I weigh out the other ingredients. Then I mix vigorously with a "Danish" dough wisk.

David

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Very pretty pizza, David.  I will try this formula.

No crumb shot?

Glenn

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

We inhaled the pizzas so fast, a crumb shot never happened. Anyway, the crumb was nothing special. The dough might have benefitted from a short (1 hour?) bulk fermentation before dividing and retarding.

If you like thin, crisp crust, this formula is for you. Just exercise restraint with toppings. If you can't, pre-bake the shell brushed with olive oil for 2-3 minutes before adding the toppings.

David

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

I've been through so many combinations of flours in my pizza experiments - including durum, spelt, rye, wholemeal, and Italian Tipo OO pizza flour in various proportions and combinations - that I'd need to check notes going back several exercise books (and years!) to recall them all. I've also added milk, olive oil, a tiny pinch of abscorbic acid powder, and even fava (ground broad bean flour).

Every ingredient and combo changes the pizza texture and/or flavour to some extent, but in the end I've always returned to the simple traditional white flour-water-salt-leaven and/or yeast combo because in all my exotic wanderings I just haven't bettered it. And yes, I realise that I am in quicksand with that statement - of course tastes vary, flours vary, ovens vary, toppings vary etc etc. I speak only for myself.

These days, my experimentation is only with the traditional ingredients. The greatest flavour and texture improvements I have managed have come from finding the white flour that is just right for the sort of pizza I prefer (trad SD thincrust, basically). I went through a hell of a lot of local and Italian brands, before stumbling on one that I found clearly superior. It elevated my pizzas to a new level. Still not quite up with a great trad woodfired one, but not far off (when I get them just right, that is, which is about 50% of the time...as with bread, there are so many variables).

I got on to this flour through conducting a bit of detective work on my favourite local pizza retailers. I discovered they all used the same flour, and that it was a commercial line not retailed through the supermarkets or even most speciality food stores. I tracked it down to a wholesale outlet tucked away in a grim industrial area. You have to buy it in bulk, the minimum quantity being a 12.5kg bag. Not only is it 1/3 the price of the cheapest supermarket flour, but it produces the best pizzas I have managed - and by a significant margin. (Interestingly, the protein count is 10-11.5%, which is a little lower than the high protein pizza flours commonly recommended).

I reckon this strategy of checking out the flour used by the best local pizza retailers could be worthy of consideration, wherever you live. Just another arrow in the experimental quiver, but the one that has landed closest to the bullseye in my experience.

Cheers all
Ross

 

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

I really should give their flours a test.  

I have had an offer for a bag of their flour from a local NY pizza business owner...but still haven't taken them up on it.  I also have an Italian neighbor who has a local pizza resturant for years, inherited from his Itailan father and mother.

 You know, now that you mention it.... I never thought about asking him for some of his flour...he loves my jams and Panettone at Christmas...hummmm.  He also has a home wfo.

I know none of them use the Tippo 00 flours and was told to use an AP.  I'm also very traditional for my favorite pizza dough recipes and have like you, tried numerous.

Thanks for the reminder, Ross! 

Sylvia 

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

...the flours used by your best local pizzerias, I mean. It's a logical strategy to check out the flour(s) used by the best of the local pros, when you think about it - but it took a couple of years for it to occur to me! Still, all the experimenting in the meantime was not wasted. Experimentation is as much a process of elimination as discovery. In my case, it led me all the way around a circuitous garden path and back to the place of simplicity and traditional ingredients I started from. Ending back at home base is a whole lot more meaningful than never leaving it!

Anyway, interested in your findings if you do try some of those flours from the pizza pros you know.

Cheers!
Ross

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

It's interesting that the flour you found is lower protein than my AP (11.7%). My BF is 12.7% protein. 

What parameters were superior with this flour? Flavor? Texture? Both?

Hmmmm ... It would also be worth asking Nicky Giusto at Central Milling what they recommend for pizza dough. They do mill a Tipo 00-type flour.

David

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Yeah, I was surprised about the protein count, because this is specified as a "pizza and bread" flour and behaves like a higher protein flour in its moisture-absorbing qualities. I've tried it in bread, also, and it gives the strong structure you normally associate with a higher protein flour. I sometimes wonder whether the producers might have gotten their analysis wrong. If anyone is interested in the specs of this flour, by the way, see here.

To answer your question re the superior qualities of this flour, I'm referring to both flavour and texture. As acknowledged though, tastes vary, and mine are traditionally orientated (woodfired traditional Neopolitan style margheritas as turned out by my favourite local pizzerias are my most easily memorable benchmark, although I fancy I can still remember the glorious life-changing one I had near the Trevi fountain in Rome) - so that needs to be factored into my comments. I suspect that your taste in pizzas, and Sylvia's, are very close to mine.

Cheers!
Ross