The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

kernals or berries??????

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Ramona's picture
Ramona

kernals or berries??????

Hello, I am new to all of this.  Years ago, I did teach myself how to make basic bread from a recipe.  But since then I have grown in the health world and become a food snob.  I now want to grind grains and make bread this way.  Once I get this down, then I would like to move on to sourdough starters.  But first this.  I have a KA mill grain and have never used it yet.  Still in it's box new.  I went to go buy some wheat, rye, and spelt grains the other day at a coop health store and found that there were several options, that I was unaware of.  The book, for ordering, would say wheat and then the weight and price, and I take it, that it meant kernals, but am not sure.  I could not ask the clerks there because they don't know anything other than stocking and cashiering.  The other option was berries.  I thought the kernals and berries were basically the same thing, but obviously not.  I have been told that I can use both in my mill.   But I do need to understand the difference and how it will affect my end result.  Can anyone help me with this?  I appreciate your imput.

Rosalie's picture
Rosalie

Welcome, Ramona.  I've been a member of this forum for about two months, and my confidence has grown many-fold.  I found the site looking for information on fresh-ground flour from my new NutriMill, and I'm now trying sourdough again.  So you and I both will be looking for whole grain sourdough information and recipes.

The first price listed might be for flour.  If you have another option of berries, I'd go for berries.  You do know that the hard winter or spring wheat yields the equivalent of bread flour, and the soft wheat gives pastry flour.  The bulk of my grain supplies is hard red winter wheat.

Rosalie

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

I have always seen wheat kernals and wheat berries used interchangeably. If your coop is making a distinction, my hunch is that wheat kernals are unhusked whereas wheat berries are husked. Some searching on the net seems to confirm this

from wikipedia.org

wheat berries = whole wheat berries. Notes: These are wheat kernels that have been stripped only of their inedible outer hulls
and from elegantfoods.net
Wheat Berries are husked, whole Wheat Kernels surrounded by the Bran of the Wheat

You would want to purchase wheat berries for milling your own grain. Whole wheat flour is made from husked wheat and  contains the bran, germ and endosperm of the wheat seed (but not the husk!).

As for your equipment, I have used both the KA grain mill and the Nutrimill grain mill for home milling. It is difficult (but not impossible) to get a fine flour using the KA grain mill. If you want some tips on how to use your KA grain mill to get a good whole wheat flour for bread making, please feel free to post back to this thread.

Ramona's picture
Ramona

Hi, I appreciate your comments on my post.  I would appreciate any help that you can give me about using this mill, as well as, making bread.  I bought this mill in particular, because my husband was so generous and considerate to buy me the KA mixer and I wanted to just get the grain mill for that, instead of going to a further large expense of buying a separate grain mill (most costs as much as my mixer or more).  I figured if it wouldn't work for me well, then I would considerate another mill later down the road.  I was told by the company that they had improved this grain mill, so it is suppose to be better than it use to be.   It's all new to me though.  I did buy spelt berries, hard, winter wheat berries, and some rye.  I don't think the rye is called berries though, so am I going to have any problems using this in my mill (I take it that it has the outer hull on it)?  Thanks, Ramona

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

Quote:
I did buy spelt berries, hard, winter wheat berries, and some rye. I don't think the rye is called berries though, so am I going to have any problems using this in my mill (I take it that it has the outer hull on it)?

I sincerely doubt that the rye berries you ordered still have the husks on. Your coop may not be that consistent about naming grain. Have you gotten your order?

The grains you got are perfect - I have the identical selection (plus a few more).

Quote:
I was told by the company that they had improved this grain mill, so it is suppose to be better than it use to be.
Beware advertising hype. The basic design of the Kitchen Aid grain mill hasn't changed in over 25 years. The way it mills grain (a fixed grooved plate and an adjustable rotating grooved plate) is the same in all models. They have modified how you feed the grain into the mill, mostly to prevent the casual user from milling too much grain at a time and damaging the mixer motor by overheating.

FYI, this is my KA grain mill, purchased in the early to mid 80s

Yours might look like this, possibly without the bars on the top of the hopper.

The old models, with the round hopper, allow the use of a funnel on top. In addition, you can use any narrow mouth screw-top glass jar (canning jar / mayonnaise jar / honey jar , etc) to catch the grain as its milled. But, as I said, they work basically the same way inside.

I'll reply in a few days about using the grain mill. Don't forget to check back. Should we start with milling your winter wheat berries first?

PS If your grain mill didn't come with a little brush, a stiff toothbrush is perfect for cleaning it. Don't ever use water on it.

 

 

Ramona's picture
Ramona

I did get wheat, spelt, and rye last week.  I also ordered some SS bread pans over the internet.  I did not want aluminum or glass (although I do have 1 glass pan).  I bought several packages of Red Star yeast and a bag of baking yeast ( I don't know if there is a difference in this compared to the Red Star, but I thought I should get this because it was cheaper to use than the packets of Red Star) at the health food store.  I did follow the instructions for cleaning my mill for the first time.  I did wash the whole thing and got all the oil off of the grinder part.  I dried it really well before I put it back together.  I figured if I didn't get a fine enough grind the first time, that I could just put the flour through once again?  I do want to just make whole grain breads.  I will not use white flour of any kind and I question why I would need to use a mix of soft and hard flour with my whole grain.  Shouldn't I be able to make a loaf of bread from just whole wheat or whole spelt and it not be like a brick?  I have read that I should not have to add anything to make it softer or rise higher, since I am grinding from the berry, since it is suppose to have everything to provide that?  I know I have a lot of questions.  I appreciate your help.  My main goal right now is to make pan loaves of bread.  I am not going to attempt any sourdough until I get this down.  Like I said before, I know how to make bread from flour, but I am new to grinding my own.  I am also new to using whole grains to do this instead of the white flour. 

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

hi Ramona,

There are recipes on this site for whole wheat bread made with 100% whole wheat flour as well as whole wheat bread made with 50% white flour and 50% whole wheat flour. I prefer the 50/50 recipes, but recipe choice is up to you.

Let's talk about milling wheat grain in your Kitchen Aid mill. You will need hard wheat - either hard spring wheat or hard winter wheat is fine. I generally use organic hard red winter wheat, since that is available in my area and has worked well for me. I also use white flour in my recipe - this is bread flour (not all-purpose) which I can get at my local supermarkets (the brand I use is Gold Medal "Harvest King" bread flour).

When you use your Kitchean Aid grain mill, the most important points to remember are never let your motor overheat ; monitor the motor's heat and if it feels hot to the touch, simply turn off the mixer and let it cool down (about 30 minutes); never run the grain mill without grain in it and never leave the grain mill unattended while your mixer is on

To mill whole wheat for bread, you generally want to produce a finely ground flour. The KA grain mill needs 2 passes to produce a sufficiently finely milled grain.

> PASS 1 Attach the grain mill to the mixer. Turning clockwise, turn it to the finest setting and then, turning counter-clockwise, back it off to stop 3 or 4 (you should hear clicking sounds). Add your grain and mill it on this setting at speed 10, stopping the mixer if it gets hot to let the motor cool. You will end up with a fairly coarse flour that should feel like medium to coarse sand when you rub it between your fingers.

> PASS 2 Turn the setting clockwise to the finest setting (again, you'll hear the clicking sound), put your coarsely milled grain into the hopper, and mill again, speed 10, at this finest setting. Remember to monitor the motor's heat. The result should be a fairly finely milled wheat grain (similar to King Arthur Whole Grain Flour, if you have ever used this brand). There should be a steady (though thin) flow of flour from the milling mechanism into your bowl.

This "double milling" produces a good whole wheat flour for bread making. I've found that trying to mill whole grain directly on the finest setting puts far too much strain on the mixer motor. Taking a 2-stage approach is slower but produces a fine flour without stressing the mixer too much.

I feel that it is best to mill the amount of wheat you'll need for your recipe and to use the milled flour with 48 hours for maxiumum taste. There has been a discussion on this site about "aging" home-milled flour, which simply means letting a week to 3 weeks go by before you use the flour. I've tried it both ways, and, at least for wheat, both my family (and friends who also get my home-made bread) prefer whole wheat loaves from flour used within a day or 2 of milling.

If you want to pick a recipe, we can talk in the future about adding gluten flour (pros and cons), mixing times, etc.

Best of luck - do feel free to post back.

KipperCat's picture
KipperCat

I appreciate these clear instructions as I am considering a grain mill attachment for my Delonghi / Kenwood.  I understand it's the same mill, though I imagine the fittings are unique to each machine.  Have you ever tried to grind a fine pastry flour?  AFAIK, these are a very fine grind from a softer wheat.

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

I've never been able to produce a sufficiently fine pastry flour with the KA grain mill. Most users and reviewers agree that the unit just isn't capable of this. You could try triple milling if you want to experiment, but in my experience, milling a third time doesn't produce a flour significantly finer than you get by milling just twice. (And yes - you would use soft wheat berries for WW pastry flour as opposed to hard wheat berries.)

I did buy a Nutrimill grain mill a few months ago. The Nutrimill can produce a really fine flour. However, I'd experiment with making whole grain bread first before buying more equipment (but that is, of course, your call).

While its hard to get a really fine flour with the KA grain mill it is good for cracking grain. Actually, my favorite grain to crack is kamut, which is a grain related to modern wheat (the seed is about 1/3 larger than hard wheat and slightly lighter in color).You have to experiment with the settings, aiming for milling that will crack the grain into about 3-4 pieces. Kamut cracks cleanly, cooks fairly quickly and I like the taste (you use it as you would bulgar; it makes great tabouli). If your coop doesn't carry kamut, I can give you more info on it plus a mail order source or two.

Kamut looks like this

As you explore recipes for whole grain bread, you find some that use a mix of finely milled WW flour and coarser grain grits. This can produce a interesting texture in the bread. I find the KA grain mill works well for coarse milling.

Keep those questions coming as long as you have any!

PS - QUESTION FOR YOU... is KA still putting those bars on top of the hopper like you see in the picture I included in an earlier post? 

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

hi KipperCat

My bad, I didn't realize you weren't the original poster.

Anyway, I was looking for a photo of the Delonghi grain mill attachment that shows it *disassembled* so I could see how it actually mills the grain. I couldn't find a photo but,   just from the external shape, it looks different from the Kitchen Aid model. I did find a description that says it uses a conical steel grinding mechanism which is definitely not how the KA grain mill works. I'm not sure that the instructions I'm giving for the KA grain mill would apply to the Delonghi one.

 

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

I found a 'net source for the Delonghi Stand Mixer Accessories manual. The link is very long but if you do a Google search on this exact phrase delonghi "grain mill" ext:pdf - it should be the 2nd or 3rd item returned.

You can see a diagram of the disassembled grain mill on p23 of this document. I immediately noticed that the actual milling mechanism is quite small. It definitely is not similar to the KA grain mill attachment.

If you want to try it, I would make sure it could be returned easily if it doesn't meet your requirements.

If you need to produce finely milled flour ( pastry or bread) I would recommend the Nutrimill electric grain mill. If you're also looking for a grain mill that can mill grits or crack grain, the Nutrimill may not be a good choice.

Post back if you want my opinion of the Nutrimill. I use it for finely milled or slightly coarse flour only; if I want grits or cracked grain, I use my KA grain mill.

KipperCat's picture
KipperCat

subfuscpersona, thank you so much for all of the information.  I saved a copy of the Delonghi manual for reference purposes.

It's been 15 years since I've had bread baked from fresh milled flour, but I still remember how good it was.  I plan to buy a mill of some sort this fall, and definitely like the price on the Delonghi attachment.  The Delonghi motor is a lot more powerful than the KitchenAid, so that may make a difference - or not.  Also, I can do pretty coarse flour in my blender, just not a whole lot at one time.

In the meantime, I'll keep reading all I can find.  It's nice to have plenty of lead time. 

Srishti's picture
Srishti

Hello subfuscpersona,

I am considering buying a Nutrimill. Would you like to share your opinion and experiences with it?

Thanks so much

Srishti

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

and like any tool has tradeoffs.

 

I've owned a Nutrimill, a Whispermill and now own a WonderMIll and a KitchenAid mill.

 

I started with the KitchenAid mill. I really like it for a number of reasons. I like that it extends the use of my KA, and that it was cheaper than the rest of the mills. Also, I like being able to produce cracked wheat and rye chops. In both cases, you want the grain lightly broken and still identifiable. In "The Bread Builders" the authors joke that when you make rye chops, you want three pieces out of the mill for each two that go in. Pretty much true. However, the down side is that it's difficult to produce finely milled flour.  Like othes here, I use the two pass system.

Which is what led me to the WhisperMill. It ground grain very finely and had little in the way of adjustment. It went from very fine to very, very fine. No cracked wheat. No rye chops. And, it seemed that the flour quality wasn't as good for bread making purposes as I wanted.  However, it was able to make flour in a single pass and could be used for extended periods of time.

That led me to buy a NutriMill because of its advertized and much ballyhooed wider range of settings, a larger hopper, and the claim that it was able to handle starts and stops with grain in the hopper, which the WhisperMill does not handle. Sadly, the wider range of settings is not terribly releavant. Instead of going from very fine to very, very fine it goes from fine to very, very fine. No cracked wheat, no rye chops, and still the breadmaking characteristics of the flour seemed lacking.

 

When I sold the bakery, I sold the NutriMill and sent the Whispermill off to be overhauled - employees had turned it off and on with grain in the hopper a few too many times. By this time, the Whispermill company had died and been resurected as Wondermill, so now my mill is the essentially identical wondermill. Same comments apply as to the WhisperMill.

The Whisper/Nutri.Wonder mills have larger hoppers than the KitchenAid and can be used pretty much continuously. In baking classes, I've seen a friend grind as much as 25 pounds without stopping, except to empty the output hopper. I think some people have modified their Wondermills to feed into a trash can sized hopper.

The common thread through the Whisper/Nutri/Wonder mill is that they are all micronizer mills. The grains are sent into spinning wheels that are turning at around 45,000 rpm and the grain explodes into powder.

This has implications. A number of implications. First, the output is homogenous. If you grind grain with a KitchenAid or similar maill you can sift out the bran and make whiter flour, Your flour will have flecks in it, which I find attractive.  You cannot do that with micronizer producd flour, the particle size is far moreconsistent.

Next, the micronizers produce more damaged starch than steel or stone wheels. Heartland Mills says, "When wheat is milled into flour some of the starch granules in the endosperm are broken. This damaged starch absorbs much more water than the undamaged granules. If too little damaged starch is in the flour, it will be difficult to mix normal to high-hydration doughs. If there is too much, the flour will exhibit high absorption, but the loaf may flatten at the end of proofing as the excess water is released. In between these extremes, as damaged starch increases, absorption will go up, but at the expense of extensibility and overall dough strength."

Yin and yang. Black and white. Teeter and totter. Sweet and sour. Most things need a balance to work well. Most of the people I know who use mills to grind their own flour look more at nutrition than bread quality. They tend to serve bricks rather than well risen loaves. And the micronizers do support that pretty well. My observations of contemporary America is that few of us seem to be malnourished.

However, I know that some people are concerned about trace mineral deficiencies. Minerals are not depleted in the whole grain flours sold on the shelves. Some people are concerned that whole wheat flour goes rancid quickly after milling. To some extent that is true, but I am not convinced that is significant if you buy flour from a merchant with quick turnover of their stocks.

Other people feel freshly ground tastes better. I won't argue that point, as there is no disputing taste.

The bread making characteristics of the stone or steel wheel mills seems to be higher than from the micronizer mills. However, the steel and stone mills have issues too. The KitchenAid is limited as to how much it can make in a single run. The KA's motor will get hot. Like other posters, I make flour in two passes. I will grind as much as 5 pounds, let the mixer rest, and then make another pass. This is OK for home use... mostly. Steel and stone mills such as the Retsel and Sampo are considerably more expensive, but are said to produce much better flour, and can make coarsely ground grain as well.

You can find Retsel and Sampo dealers on line, check Google or bizrate.

If you have a micronizer mill, you can work with your recipes to get the best results you can. First, be patient. Let the flour absorb the water. My 5 minute knead, 5 minute rest and 5 minute knead regimen works very well here. These breads really benefit from the use of vital wheat gluten. I use about 5 or 6% as a baker's percentage. If you go much higher, the bread can acquire a gummy texture that most people find objectionable. I suggest using an American organic vital wheat gluten, such as Bob's Red Mill as the Chinese gluten has been contaminated in the recent past.

Hope that helps,

Mike

 

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

I won't dispute Mike's information on a micronizer mill damaging more starch than other methods of grinding, but I've not been disappointed with the performance of the flour it produces. I've been grinding my own flour for about a year, so if you'd like to see the kind of loaves that one can produce from Wondermill flour, just poke around the entries from 2007 on my blog.

I definitely agree about the fineness of the flour. There's a knob one can use to alter the grind, but there's not a whole lot of difference -- it's all fine flour.

One benefit to home grinding that I'll add is cost. If you make all your family's bread and if that bread is whole grain, it's a lot cheaper to grind your own flour in the long run, and the grains, properly stored, will keep for years. I can get 50 lbs of organic wheat berries for about $26 at my local foods co-op. Organic flour would cost almost twice that, and, if I bought a 50 lb bag, would probably go rancid before I could use it all up. Conventional grain and flour is, of course, less expensive and the price differences are about the same.

goetter's picture
goetter

when i was reserching the purchase of a retsel, i found many online scare stories about lengthy backorder times when buying from the factory.  'kodiak health' was the only other online vendor that i could find.  while i was put off by some of the alterna-whacky quack health gear that the site carried, they did have the retsel in stock, and shipped it expeditiously.

chezball's picture
chezball

Can someone point me to a Sampo mill online? I only get mythology stories, and can't find the company or a seller of these mills.
Thanks.

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

hi Shristi,

I was extraordinarily impressed by Mike's comprehensive reply to you and wonder if I have anything more to add. In contrast to Mike, I am just a home baker so perhaps I have something to contribute from that perspective.

> SIZE - it's BIG so you'll need ample counter space in your kitchen or a big space in your cupboard. Check out the measurements before you buy, including height if you have overhanging kitchen cabinets.

> NOISE - *very loud* when milling as others have pointed it. The noise bothers me but not other owners who have posted here. The lid for the grain receptacle does little to reduce the noise.

> SAFETY - it seems well designed in this regard. The micronizer part (which actually mills the grain) is entirely encased. Safe for young children to use *with supervision*.

> CLEANLINESS and CLEANING - The unit is entirely self contained so there is no mess when milling. The flour receptacle is the only part that needs cleaning after use and cleaning is easy. I just wipe out the flour receptacle with a slightly damp cloth or rinse it with cold water. The manual says nothing about whether it is dishwasher safe. A dishwasher is totally unnecessary for cleaning it and it is possible (?) that the plastic might be damaged by harsh detergent.

> STURDINESS - The exterior of the unit is made entirely from plastic. The removable flour receptacle seems to be about 1/8" thick. I would treat it with reasonable care; I don't know if, for example, the flour receptacle would chip or crack if dropped on the floor. Good for home use but probably not for a professional kitchen or bakery where staff can be rough on equipment. Replacement parts are available but pricey.

> SPEED - To give you an idea of how quickly the Nutrimill can produce flour, here are 2 timings on high speed with the fineness dial set at about 10:00 (pointing to the "N" in "finer") for one pound of grain: for hard red winter wheat: 2 minutes, 15 seconds; for hard white spring wheat: 3 minutes.

=================

And the flour it produces?...

As others have noted, fine, finer and finest are the gradations. I was primarily looking for a mill that produced fine flour (only faintly gritty) from wheat, spelt and rye. To date, I have only milled wheat (hard winter and hard spring) and rye in it. I have not used it for bean flour (such as soy or chickpeas), though the user manual says it can handle these legumes. I have been *very impressed* with the fine flour the unit produces, even from hard spring wheat.

If you like to make cookies or pastry from whole wheat flour (I do not) and you purchase *soft* wheat for this purpose, I think it would serve you very well. If you make your own pasta dough (I do) you might want to experiment with milling some soft wheat and subbing it for some of the white flour in the dough.

If I want to have a coarse grain or produce something like grits, cracked wheat, etc. I have a Kitchen Aid grain mill attachment to fall back on. For small amounts of coarse or cracked grain, other posters here have used a blender.

===========

And the cost?

At a cost of $250-$260 (shipping may be extra) this unit is for the serious whole grain enthusiast. If you routinely go through at least 2 pounds of quality whole grain flour a week, you can probably break even (or better) in a year or two. If your usage is more sporadic than this, the Nutrimill becomes more of a luxury (though all of us deserve a little luxury in our lives).

Consider the cost and trouble of obtaining grain. Bakers on this forum who can get grain from a local coop or natural foods market realize the best cost savings. If you must mail order, you will realize cost savings if you can order in bulk (25 pound bag of grain) even with shipping costs but do also consider how you'll store the grain and whether you need also to purchase special containers. Your geographical location (assuming you're in the US) is also a consideration if you must mail order as that severely affects shipping costs.

One benefit is that grain is more tolerant of storage conditions than whole grain or whole legume flour. Assuming that you can store your grain in reasonably cool conditions and not subject to high humidity for prolonged periods, the grain will certainly last for one year and probably longer and still produce excellent flour. In contrast, I feel that whole grain flour degrades fairly quickly and really requires refrigeration (or freezing) in order to maintain quality.

Srishti's picture
Srishti

Hello subfuscpersona, Mike & Jmonkey for all those details of your experiences with your mills,

I did buy a Nutrimill in October and I have to tell you guys that I have gone through at 3 25lb bags of Kamut, and 1 25 lb bag of Spelt in addition to some wheat, pastry wheat, surghum grain, millet,... hmm.... what else... Haven't tried any beans yet but the opening in hopper doesn't seem like it would take chickpeas(toobig) I tried field corn once... tooo big for the hopper... I have an ancient big VitaMix... My husband grinds Oats in it to make oatmeal and I am thinking of putting the Chickpeas & field corn in that first to break it up into smaller pieces and then passing it through the Nutrimill to make finer flour!

All in all I am really happy with it and it was a good buy!

Thanks so very much everyone

Take Care

Srishti

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

I'm so glad the collective wisdom re the Nutrimill was helpful. You have certainly been giving it a workout!

I'm curious why you use so much kamut - I personally love that particular grain but usually just crack it and cook it like bulgar. Do you make 100% kamut breads?

...and I see you use a lot of spelt too...

Out of curiosity, where do you purchase your grains?

Thanks for posting back - look forward to hearing from you. 

Srishti's picture
Srishti

Dear Subfuscpersona...

My husband seems a little sensitive to wheat but Kamut and spelt seem to be better for him! I heard about Kamut here and gave it a try...

It's supposed to be many times higher in nutrients that regular wheat plus it is not genetially modified or cross bred to increase yield... It's only grown organically. It is a protected grain by FDA that means it is supposed to be kept "pure" as it was supposedly used in the times of the "Pharaos"!!! and so on and so forth....

I like it that it has a higher mineral and nutritional level... And the Kamut flour is so light and makes fluffy breads. It's almost like using white flour... (not that I have ever been inclined on making white breads really ;) )

I make all my sandwitch loaves with Kamut...

I make sourdough/yeast pizza with Kamut...

And pasta with Kamut (Oh so good that I keep craving it!)

The only thing I use spelt for is for making my sourdough hearth breads (free standing artisan style). In that too I sometimes mix in a good % of Kamut and rye.

Oh and I also used all Kamut for making Stollens this Christmas... :D I must have made over 16 stollens. My Mother-in-law who is from Austria said that these Stollens were better than any Stollens she's ever had in Germany.

Definitely Kamut is a very versatile grain and it doesn't have that strong wheaty taste which many people dislike (I don't have a problem with that). I think more and more people should give this grain a try specially who don't like the taste of wheat!

Spelt: I just love the taste of Spelt!!! It is soooo good! I do all the  above mentioned things with Spelt as well.... Like pizzas... Sandwitch bread ... sourdough...

Haven't tried pasta with spelt yet :D but Kamut makes such good pasta!!!!

I special order my grains from my local Health food store... I think any health food store in the US would be happy to do special orders!

I think I got Organic Kamut 25# bag for ummmmm between $32-$34. And same for Organic spelt. The spelt was justa a dollar more than Kamut!

Thanks so much.... I hope you can find the grains easily where you live!

Srishti's picture
Srishti

Oh I see abouve that you are already heavily into using Kamut.... Sorry for blabbing so much about it :D :D :D

Srishti's picture
Srishti

For those of you who are not familiar with the Goodness of Kamut, Here is some Nutritional and Food Allergy information on the Website of Kamut Brand:

 

www.kamut.com/english/allergy/allergy-main.htm

www.kamut.com/english/allergy/nutrition-main.htm

Have fun

Srishti

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

I've been trying to get one simple question about the Nutrimill answered for months. Here it is...

Do you find a signficant difference milling on low speed vs high speed with the same setting for the other dial that controls fineness/coarseness?

As a corollary, how often do you use the low speed setting for general milling?

TIA!  

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

Wish I could help you here, but I've only got experience with the Wondermill ....

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

I saw your question some time back, and I'd have answered you if I had an answer.

 

The Nutrimill and I parted company a number of years ago, and I wouldn't even swear it had a variable speed setting

 

Why not send the maker an email and ask them.  Tell 'em its a pre-sales question and you are trying to decide between their machine and a Retsel or a Wondermill.... that will give them more incentive to answer.

Mike 

 

 

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

hi Srishti - I'm back with questions.

Q 1 > Do you use the *low* speed on the Nutrimill much and, if yes, for what kind of baking are you milling the flour? I have been trying to find out for months whether Nutrimill owners use the low speed very much. Can you help?

Q 2 > re whole grain pasta - I've been wanting to try this. I don't like store bought whole grain pasta because it is too thick and has a faintly gritty feel when cooked. I favor very thin noodles and spagettini or angel hair noodles. What's your opinion of whole grain noodles with flour milled with the Nutrimill. (FYI, I normally make egg pasta and use a manual pasta machine for rolling and cutting. My standard recipe is 1 "large" egg per 4 oz flour. I normally use unbleached white flour and usually make a big batch and freeze the dough in 8 to 12 oz portions.)

Thanks for your help...SF

Srishti's picture
Srishti

Hey Subfuscpersona,

1> Ok, this is confusing, I assume the Lowspped/HighSpeed button is the bottom one which also tuns the machine  on/off! Right? The one that says Finer/Courser.... I think I have only used the Finer setting!

I don't remember using that at the Courser setting at all! Maybe once, but I really don't remember!!!! Now that you mention it, I will try that the next time I gring flour and see how much courser it can do it!

One thing though, with Kamut, since the grain is so long I find that I have to go almost extreme right on the upper knob though which is for making the opening of the feeder bigger/smaller.

2>The thing is... we really never buy white pasta.... WE have always bought whole grain pasta..... Then we tried making pasta with Kamut and it was wonderful! I don't don't if the Nutrimill played a role in this... but since we were already used to Whole grain pasta.... the fresh pasta was only better!

We have an Omega 8003 fruit & vegetable mastication juicer which also does pasta extraction... I just made some dough and let it sit for an hour and we just pressed the pasta thru the juicer (which we propped up higher right above boiling water by the stove) right into boiling water... Ha ha... I know that is such a hackey approach!!! But it works!!!! ;)

So fresh pasta is like a speciality here.. once in a while... while we continut to buy the organic ww pasta at heath food stores for the kids' school lunches etc.Yes I would love to freeze or dry  it as well and have homemade pasta handy all the time. I don't have a pasta machine and the pasta coming out if the juicer is quite wet and sticky :( It would be quite impossible to gather it together and freeze it :(

I found some pasta recipes here: http://www.culinarycafe.com/Pasta.html

and that is what I have been following! It has diff amount of salt /eggs for a certain amount of flour in diff recipes!! and I have been just guessing how much to put in. Thanks for your recipe above! I will see if the same works for the Kamut flour next time! But maybe I make a drier dough like you next time and freeze it!!!

Do you put any oil or salt in your pasta?

Thanks so much

Srishti

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

re Q 1 on Nutrimill high vs. low speed...

The speed button is the top one - it goes from low to high

>> have you ever set the speed button to anything except high? <<

re Q 2 on whole grain pasta...

Thanks for the links. I notice the whole grain pastas actually mix whole grain and white flour.

I just use white flour and eggs. As I said, the proportions are 4 oz (about 2/3 to 3/4 cup) flour to 1 large egg. No salt, no oil. The eggs should be room temperature, as flour has trouble incorporating cold eggs. Sometimes I may have to add 1 - 2 tsp water but usually if I let the rough dough rest on the counter (with a bowl over it) for about 15 minutes, I can knead it to a silky smooth dough.

This makes a *very* stiff dough which is fine for a manual pasta maker but probably too stiff for an extrusion type pasta maker. You would need a softer, more pliable pasta dough for an extrusion pasta maker. The recipes on the pasta link you gave do make a softer dough than I generally use for pasta.

I thought it was a clever idea of yours to have the juicer extrude the pasta right into the boiling water.

Anyway, getting back to the Nutrimill question, tell me if you've ever experimented with using other than the high speed for milling your flour.

thanks so much - SF

PS -- hurrah for kamut! One of my favorite grains. 

Srishti's picture
Srishti

Ok... Sorry SF for the misunderstanding! Yes, when I grind Kamut I grind it on Low (I turn the top notch all the way to the right.)

Seems like when it's on the left/high  (Ok I am quite sure why ) but with Kamut grain being so large it does not pass thriugh the opening, maybe, so when I turn it to right, it starts passing through.... or maybe it's just my imagination, but I have noticed that when grinding Kamut on high I hear the motor spinning empty (like the grain is not going thru,) but when I turn it on low I start hearing it cracking! 

I am sounding quite crazy here probably!!! But does that make any sense? Do you grind your Kamut on the high or low?

Ok, I will grind it on high next time and see if the flour is any finer at all!!!

Take CAre

Srishti

PS: What can I call you beside SF/sunfuscpersona :D :D

Rosalie's picture
Rosalie

Srishti, you are not crazy.  If you dump your grains into the Nutrimill and turn it on but you don't hear the cracking, then the grain (or whatever) is not going through.  You can confirm that by taking the lid off.  If it's passing through, you will see the level slowly go down.  So you're doing the right thing.

I have not yet used that top knob.  When I hear that it's not going through, I adjust the bottom knob.  But whatever works.

Rosalie

Srishti's picture
Srishti

ha ha that's true!!! Whatever works really.... I having tried going corser on the bottom knob ever! Wonder how much courser does it really get?

Srishti

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

When in doubt, read the manual. Here is the relevant page...Nutrimill manual pg 2

Srishti's picture
Srishti

Ah subfuscpersona,

Thanks so much for this reminder of something calles an "Owner's Manual"!!! :D

Now I understand it much better.

I used to think it was just the opposite of what the owner's manual said!!!!

Ha!!!!

This will help so much!!!

Thanks again

Srishti

PS: let me know when you make your kamut pasta next, how you like it?

 

ThinkinAboutBakin's picture
ThinkinAboutBakin

Wow...  What a great thread.  This is from a while ago but if anyone is still out there.  Which mill would you preferr for whole wheat breads using a bread maker for my children (and me - but they are more picky).

Thanks!

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

A grain mill and a bread maker serve different purposes.

A grain mill does exactly what it says - it mills flour from whole grain.

A bread maker mixes and kneads the ingredients for your dough. It can also maintain a low temperture during the time it takes for the dough to rise and it can bake the final dough after it has risen. I don't own nor have I ever used a bread maker. However, from reading many posts on this forum (and other cooking and/or bread baking forums), it seems that many advanced bakers who do use a bread maker use it *only* for kneading the dough. These bakers prefer to let it rise outside of the bread maker and also to bake the risen bread dough in an oven. (This applies to bread recipes designed for baking in loaf pans as well as freeform breads which are baked on a baking stone or cookie sheet.) Many bread makers can only handle enough dough for a single loaf.

I have been milling my own flour from whole grains and whole beans for over 25 years. I've purchased and used a number of grain  mills (both manual and electric) over the years. I now own (and routinely use) 3 grain mills, of which the Nutrimill is one.

For whole wheat bread you need a fine whole wheat flour. I feel the Nutrimill is the most cost-effective and easy-to-use grain mill currently on the market for the home baker. There are other, more expensive, grain mills available and if you're interested you'll find a wealth of information on them by using the search function on TFL.

Best of luck in your bread baking efforts - SF

ThinkinAboutBakin's picture
ThinkinAboutBakin

Thanks so much for getting back to me.  I did not know that whole wheat needed a very fine flour.  From what I've read, that's what the NutraMill is best at.