The Fresh Loaf

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Onion Bagel Bake

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ehanner's picture
ehanner

Onion Bagel Bake

I have been baking a batch of Bagels every other day for a week, trying to figure out how get consistent results and decide which shaping method to use and recipe to use. Most recently my goal has been to incorporate onions in the process and make a batch of half onion and a few poppy seed and a few "everything".  In another thread I had asked the best way to add onions on top so I could split the batch up and change the topping using the same dough mix. For these, I re hydrated the dry onions with hot water and once cooled, spooned them onto the tops prior to over turning them onto the Bagel Board. The onions didn't burn and the flavor was good. This is a work in progress.

I like the Hamelman recipe and method so far. I'm patiently waiting for my copy of  "Inside the Jewish Bakery" which I will consult when it arrives. I've gotten the feel for rolling the snakes (Glenn's usage lol) and have finally embraced the concept of shaping and retarding overnight. I like to retard in bulk for other breads but there are a few reasons why it works better in this sequence. Here are the results.

No burned onions this time.

A little Lox and Capers cover the bread.

 

Comments

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Those look great, Eric.  Nice crust color.

I guess I'll have to try onion bagels sometime.  My wife likes them, but I prefer other toppings.

Glenn

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thanks Glenn. The next batch I'm going to add some to the dough and use the water for a stronger flavor. I've used poppy seeds with the onions also.

Eric

Elagins's picture
Elagins

the onions will keep nicely in the fridge overnight in a sealed container.

Stan

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Those bagels look delicious.  Well done.

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thanks Floyd.

Eric

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Hi Eric

These are some of the best bagels that I have ever seen!

Shiao-Ping

ehanner's picture
ehanner

It is so kind of you to comment on the Bagels.  Good to hear from you.

Eric

Elagins's picture
Elagins

... and we'll have to make you an honorary Brooklyn Jew!  Great work!

Stan Ginsberg
www.nybakers.com

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Now that would be an accomplishment. Thanks Stanley.

Eric

hansjoakim's picture
hansjoakim

Hi Eric,

These are most definitely baked by someone who knows their way around bagels. They look brilliant!

A little question about the lox, if I may, Eric? Is it cured or smoked? Your own produce by any chance? I noticed that it has a quite distinct red colour; is the colour on the photo its natural colour? I'm used to seeing cured and/or smoked salmon of a much paler, lighter, almost pink colour.

Great bake, Eric!

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Good to hear from you sir. Unfortunately, I don't know with certainty about the lox. The product in the photo does look a bit bright but I think that is a reasonable duplication of the color, if slightly over saturated. This was brought by our guest and the packing bag is long gone. I have another package in the cooler and it is quite less red. Also it is smoked. I suspect the fish available to you would be fresh and better quality. I do plan on smoking a few fillets of Irish Salmon soon. Looking forward to that.

Thank you for your kind words.

Eric

lumos's picture
lumos

The colour of the salmon looks like that of Alaskan red salmon whose habit is north Pacific and rivers in North America.  It's a different kind from North Atlantic salmon which is common in Europe. As the name suggest, red salmon has much brigher and darker flesh than what we're used to in Europe. 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

The second package I have is much more pale. I suspect you are correct but my pale package also says color added. How nice.

Eric

lumos's picture
lumos

Unless it's wild salmon, colour is added when farmed anyway.  The colour of wild salmon's flesh mainly comes from small crustaceans they eat, but in the salmon farm,  artificial colour has to be added to the feed or the flesh will be pale greyish colour with a tint of slight pink.  Not too appetising..... They basically 'colour' their salmon in the shade they think it'd be appealing to retails.    But in better salmon farms those colourings come from natural ingredients, like colours from vegetables. 

Those farms have a colour chart with different shades of 'salmon pinks' and if you're a big customer (retailer/wholesaler), you may get to choose the colour you like from the chart for the salmons you're buying.  It's quite interesting in UK's supermarkets because each supermarket seems to prefer a certain colour for their salmon.  

lumos

lumos's picture
lumos

Got to agree with everyone. Great looking bagels, Eric!  Certainly look much more authentic than mine. :p

When I used to make bagels with commercial yeast, they came out much more plump and chubby just like yours which I really liked, but with sourdough I haven't been able to make them look like that. Maybe because some gluten in flour used for sourdough is broken  down???  And probably adding WW to mix isn't helping it either....  Perhaps I'm doing everything I shouldn't be doing....:p

lumos

 

 

 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thank you Lumos, kind of you to say so. Actually your Bagels on the front page was a motivator to take this on. I hope to be able to have such nice results when including Whole Wheat.

Mike Avery from Sourdough Home has some very nice bagels using sourdough and a variety of additions I want to try again. I haven't looked at his recipes in a few years but I remember them to be delicious.I just found the PDF cookbook I bought from Mike and spent some time reviewing it. Here is the link. This is the best hands on "How To" on Bagels and I had forgotten what a good resource it is. Many flavors and additions with good clear explanations of the process. For a small $5. price, if you are interested in Bagels, this is a must have I would say.

For me, keeping the hydration near 58% using yeast gives me a refrigerated dough I can remove from the oiled parchment and get into the boiling water without stretching it out of shape. When using sourdough I would think that would mean an even firmer dough, (perhaps 56%?).

lumos's picture
lumos

Hi, Eric,

Been wondering how many of veteran TFLers might be thinking their bagels are better than mine since Floyd kindly (and to my biggest surprise) featured it on the front page. :p 

I know mine don't look anything like the ones you get from authentic Jewish bakers, but that formula was the result of 1) wanted to incorporate my starter, so that I can refresh it as often as possible,  2) a friend who buys breads from me every week (the one who used to live in NY) loves WW,  and that's the highest ratio of WW I could incorporate into the mix which would forgive myself to call it 'bagel.'  Anything more than that, it just become WW bread in a doughnut shape. :p

Thanks for the link for Sourdough Home.  Actually his resipe is the one of  sourdough bagel formulae I use as a reference when I  when I was trying to conjure up my own  formula.  His book is tempting but I've already got two books on bagels (  this  this  ) so I'll have a think if it really justifies to have another book on bagels......on top of lots of other sourdough bagel recipes I printed out from internet, including here.

Yes, my bagels are about 56% hydration (says she, without checking....).  When I proof it, I put small rectanglar pieces of reusable non-stick baking sheets (slightly longer than bagel's diameter and about 2-3cm wide)  on a baking tray and sprinkle semolina on it. Each shaped bagel is place upon a  baking sheet piece.  When proofed and ready for boiling, I pick up the both ends of baking sheet and put it upside down in to the boiling water. That way I don't need to worry about spoiling the shape and once they're in the water, the baking sheet piece comes out easily.  I used to oil the baking tray and the baking sheet pieces before, but I found sprinkling semolina is easier and worked better for me.  Probably this is nothing more than a personal choice, I gues....

lumos

 

 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Your WW Bagels are beautiful lumos. Your shaping methods are well tuned and your idea of getting the dough into the water is novel. What a great idea. I may give that a try with oiled parchment. Thank you for sharing your method for keeping the shape intact.

Eric

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

If that is a work in progress, then I would say that you are progressing very well, sir!

Paul

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thank you Paul. There so many variables when making Bagels, each critical to the outcome. I'm learning one batch at a time, something new each batch.Using the DLX is sooo much easier than the KA.

Eric

Syd's picture
Syd

Those are beautiful bagels Eric.  Lovely colour, too.  What percentage of malt did you use?

Best,

Syd

ehanner's picture
ehanner

These were made from J. Hamelmans bagel recipe. It calls for .5% malt powder. That's point 5 percent. They do color up nicely. I used honey in the boiling water which also adds to the color.

Eric

lumos's picture
lumos

THAT'S something I've always wanted to ask and forget!

Some bagels recipes call for diastic malt and others non-diastatic.  I usually use non-diastatic because 1) non-diastatic seems to add more pronounced flavour than diastatic (my illusion???),  2) I quite often get a problem of too sticky dough when I add diastatic, while non-diastatic seems to be better in that department, too. 

As a result, I've got too much diastatic malt powder in my freezer I don't know what to do with..... So if someone can pursuade me diastatic malt gives me better bagels, I'll go for it!

Why some bakers choose diastatic and others non-diastatic for their bagels?

lumos

 

 

 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Lumos,

I'm not the one who should be waxing about the difference between diastatic and non-distatic malts. I believe one has enzymes which speed fermentation but I could be completely wrong. Maybe someone who really knows will chime in here. I use the diastatic variety in the dough as a powder. It's from KA. The malt syrup I believe is the Non variety that I use in the water. I've read that you can swap the two and not notice a difference. There is a sweetness that adds food for the yeasts and an improvement in browning in the oven also.

Eric

lumos's picture
lumos

I've read distatic malt is the one you want when the dough is to be fermented for a long period. For non-diastatic, I have both powdered form and also syrup.  Never used malt syrup in bagels dough because I didn't want to change the hydration, thinking  bagel is not as forgiving as other types of breads when the hydration goes. I might be totally wrong here, but I've found diastatic malt powder doesn't add sweetness or aroma as much as non-diastatic powder.

lumos

audra36274's picture
audra36274

   As always you have out done yourself!  Mary is one lucky woman! We here are all so lucky to have such great teachers like yourself.

audra36274's picture
audra36274

   As always you have out done yourself!  Mary is one lucky woman! We here are all so lucky to have such great teachers like yourself.

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Nice of you to say but I'm not at risk of being at the head of the Bagel contest quite yet.

Eric

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

and the lox with the pickles, is all this on a garlic bagel, perchance ?  ;)

In my previous home, in Va. Beach, VA, we had a Jewish restaurant called "The Jewish Mother" and they had the absolute bestest garlic bagels. These are very hard to come by anywhere else. One of these days, Iwill be brave enough to try my hand at making bagels. 

Eric yours are just perfect !

anna

 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

So sweet of you to say such nice things. I'm working on a post where I will show how to make a 6 bagel batch by hand, without a mixer. It is turning out well so far.

Eric

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

It will give me the incentive to try. 

Thank you in advance !

Anna

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hi Eric,
Beautiful bagels...they look great!
:^) from breadsong

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thank you breadsong!

Eric

wally's picture
wally

I see no work in progress, Eric, but beautifully shaped and baked bagels.

Kudos! You are right about the overnight retarding. If you drop same day mixed bagels into boiling water they sink right to the bottom of the pot and the finished product is definitely inferior.

Nice bake, indeed!
Larry

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thanks Larry. What you see is beginners luck. I'm still learning but it is getting easier. I'm trying to find time to do these every other day or so to teach my hands how to shape better. As you, like with shaping and scoring baguettes, practice is best.

Eric