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Gilchesters Miche and Borodinsky Bread

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ananda's picture
ananda

Gilchesters Miche and Borodinsky Bread

Gilchesters Miche and Borodinsky Bread

I made these loaves at home in my new SMEG oven at the end of August.

I have a new job, starting very soon, back on the “Lecturing Circuit”…the best of news!   Even better, the work is exciting, challenging and specific to my specialist area of baking.   The pay is improved too, and the terms of service.   The down side?   It means I have to travel even further…to Leeds, a good 100 miles away, and 2.5 hours on the train!   This means staying in Leeds through the middle part of the week…ho hum!

Still, I will be at home in Northumberland at the weekends, indeed, 5 nights of the week.   I hope to have the wood-fired oven working better very soon, so there should be plenty for me to post on moving forward.

In the meantime, a re-visit to 2 of the breads I am most pleased with producing in the months gone by.

  1. 1.    Gilchesters Miche

Material

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1. Refreshed Leaven

 

 

Total Flour [Carrs Special CC]

27

480

Total Water

16

286

TOTAL

43

768

 

 

 

2. Final Dough

 

 

Leaven

43 [27 flour, 16, water]

768

Gilchesters Organic Farmhouse Flour

73

1320

Salt

1.78

32

Water

62

1116

TOTAL

179.78

3236

% pre-fermented flour

27

-

% overall hydration

78

-

FACTOR

18

-

Method:

  • I began with 40g of levain from stock, which was given 3 refreshments the day before use to end up with 800g mature culture.   I retained 32g for stock and used the remaining 768g in the final dough.
  • Firstly, autolyse the Gilchester flour 1320g] with the water [1116g] required for the final dough, for 1 hour.
  • Combine the autolyse, levain and salt [32g] and mix gently to a developed dough over 20 minutes.
  • Rest covered for a bulk proof of 3 hours.   One S&F after 1¾ hours.
  • Scale and divide into 2 x 1.6kg pieces.   Mould round and set upside down in prepared bannetons.
  • Final proof for 3 hours.
  • Bake  profile as follows: Pre-heat the oven for 1¼ hours; take up to 280°C, then allow to sit at 250°C until 15 minutes before baking commences.   Take back up to 280°C.   Tip the proofed dough piece onto a pre-heated baking sheet dusted with semolina, and cut the top.   Use boiling water in a pan filled with stones as a steam source and set the tray and bread onto the pre-heated baking stone.   Turn the heat setting to 250°C, and bake for 15 minutes with the fan turned off.   Mist the loaf after 8 minutes, and top up the boiling water in the pan of stones to keep the steam supply going.   Turn the heat to 235°C.   Then drop the loaf directly onto the baking brick, remove the steam source, and switch over to convection baking.   Bake a further 25 minutes.   Turn the heat down to 200°C and bake for another 10 – 15 minutes.   Turn off the oven, but leave the loaf inside, with the oven door ajar for 10 more minutes.   Cool on wires.

 

  1. 2.    Borodinsky

Material

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1. Rye Sour Refreshment One

 

 

From Stock

 

63 [23 flour, 40 water]

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

 

90

Water

 

150

TOTAL

 

303

 

 

 

2. Full Sour

 

 

Rye Sour from above

 

303

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

 

210

Water

 

350

TOTAL

 

863 [63 retained as stock]

TOTAL used

80 [30 flour, 50 water]

800 [300 flour, 500 water]

 

 

 

3. “Scald”

 

 

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

20

200

Red Malt

5

50

Organic Blackstrap Molasses

6

60

Coriander, freshly ground

1

10

Salt

1

10

Boiling Water

35

350

TOTAL

68

680

 

 

 

4. “Sponge”

23:30, Friday 08.07.2011

 

Rye Sourdough [from 2]

80 [30 flour, 50 water]

800 [300 flour, 500 water]

Scald [from 3]

68

680

TOTAL

148

1480

 

 

 

5. Final Paste

 

 

Sponge [from 4]

148

1480

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

30

300

Carrs Special CC Flour

20

200

TOTAL

198

1980

% pre-fermented flour

50

[30 from sour + 20 from scald to make “sponge”]

% overall hydration

85

-

FACTOR

10

 

 

Method:

  • Rye sourdough utilised 2 refreshments beginning with 63g stock and ending up with 863g finished culture.   63g retained for stock and 800g used in the final paste.
  • Make the scald at the same time as the final refreshment of the sour: weigh the red malt [sift as necessary] and dark rye flour into a bowl, add the salt, and coriander, which should be freshly ground using a mortar and pestle.   Weigh the molasses into a pan, and pour boiling water onto this to the specified weight.   Bring this to a rolling boil on the cooker hob top.   Pour onto the dry ingredients and combine well with a stout plastic or wooden spatula.   Add any extra boiling water required first by checking the weight of the contents to allow for any evaporation.   Cover and cool.
  • Make the sponge by combining the sour and scald.   Cover and hold at 28°C for 4½ hours.
  • Add the final portion of flours to form the final paste.   Cover and bulk prove for one hour.
  • Scale and divide; 500g for a small loaf, and the remainder for a Pullman Pan, just short of 1.5kg.
  • Final proof of 3 hours.
  • Bake with a regular supply of steam in a convection oven at 190°C.   The small loaf bakes in 50 minutes, and the Pullman Pan in just over 2hours.
  • De-pan and cool on wires.

 

All good wishes

Andy

Comments

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

I got wallpaper paste LOL. Someone helped me with that on another thread. Will see if I can cross reference it.

Yes machine translation is much better than it used to be but it still throws up some rubbish! Sure your translation would be far superior...Still, time consuming like you say...

Best wishes, Daisy

 

 

saintdennis's picture
saintdennis

I have the question: Andy talking about "red malt flour" where I can buy it in USA or New York??? And where I can find more recipes for Russian breads like Rossisky??? Please, help

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Hi there,

there's a discussion on red malt here, scroll down to the very end and read through suave's comments. He's a Russian living in the US and he gets his red malt from homebrew shops. He mentions some brands as well as varieties.

Suave also has a recipe for Rossiysky and dozens other Russian breads (plus some Lithuanian and others) in his Russian-language blog on LiveJournal, here's Rossiyskiy

you could try Google Translate but it's pants with things like recipes

I suppose I'll have to find more time for translating stuff... or else we should ask suave!

Andy actually mentioned he's made Rossiyskiy, maybe he'll give us a recipe

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Faith,

the Rossisky formula is on Shiao-Pings excellent post, here:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15577/pure-sourdough-rye-year-1939#comment-99318

Best wishes

Andy

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

you know what Andy,

your formula is very different from what suave describes as Rossiysky! (that's not to say that yours is somehow wrong, just that it may require a new name!) His one calls for 70% whole rye (not dark rye), 30 % wheat and a generous amount of molasses. I'll try and post a translation when I get the time.

Suave also says that several Russian rye breads are very similar to each other, they vary in things like the type of rye and wheat flour used, whether sugar or molasses are used, etc. For example, Rossiysky only differs from Orlovsky in the degree of extraction of wheat flour, and Orlovsky is only different from Podmoskovny in that the former uses molasses, and the latter, brown sugar. Rizhskyis also similar to Vitebsky and Minsky, but Rizhsky has caraway seed and some wheat flour in it, Vitebsky - aniseed and no wheat, and Minsky has only a pinch of unfermented (dyastatic) rye malt, much less than the other two.

So I think your Rossiysky deserves a new name! Perhaps something easier on the English tongue ;-)

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Right. I've finally got round to translating the recipe. As a reminder, it's from suave's Russian language blog. I'm also posting his photos, I hope he won't mind. So here goes:

As everyone knows, throughout
just under 80 years of its history the technology behind Borodinsky bread has
seen many changes. From a method that always involved four stages in its early
years it was streamlined to three stages in the late Soviet era, and most recently a one-stage process, thanks to “magic” dough conditioners C*
and B* (I’m not sure what these are so may have translated incorrectly -
Faith). But probably the biggest transformation happened in 1938 when a
standardised recipe was created (under GOST – Faith). This recipe still exists
(and is the one most people would be familiar with – Faith) and it calls
for 80% rye flour, 15% wheat, and all the usual suspects. Yet before then it
was a totally different bread, a 100% rye, hearth (as opposed to pan. Although GOST also makes a provision for hearth
loaves, I personally have never come across a Borodinsky that was not a pan loaf
– Faith), with caraway or aniseed, never coriander. This is what it looked
like:

 

As you can see this bread is
very different from the Borodinsky we all know and love. It’s a bit similar to
Rizhsky (Pronounced Rish-ski - Faith), but more rye-ey, and the loaf is both darker and denser. By the way,
the density of this bread came as a surprise to me. That is, not a surprise as
such, I can very well visualise what will happen if you mix a certain amount of
flour with a certain amount of water, so I knew it would be a very dense bread
before I even started. It’s the ratios that surprised me (a very low water
ratio – Faith). I’m not sure whether it’s because in those bygone years flour
absorbed water in a different way, or because “the structure of the water
molecule hadn’t been tampered with”. So I think it’s possible to tweak the
water ratio somewhat, perhaps add a couple of percent or so.

In any case, the bread is awesome,
and in my opinion, it beats our familiar Borodinsky hands down. How they could
stop making it is beyond me.

(So here goes the recipe):

Sour refreshment

15 g mature rye starter at 100% hydration

30 g dark rye flour (this, to my knowledge, is ground from
the outer portion of the rye berry – Faith)

30 g whole rye flour

40 g water

Weigh your starter, add water,
mix well. Add the dark rye and stir until homogenous, then mix in wholemeal
rye. Cover and leave for 6 hours at around 30 C.

Scald

  • 140 g wholemeal rye flour
  • 28 g red rye malt
  • 1 g ground caraway seed
  • 380 g water

Combine the flour, malt and
caraway seed, pour over boiling water (and stir very quickly until well combined –
Faith). Keep at 65 C for 2 – 2.5. hours, then cool down to 30 C.

Photos of the scald (from left
to right): flour, malt and caraway; freshly stirred scald;converted scald
(with starches converted to sugars – Faith)

 

Sponge

  • 90 g starter (I’m assuming this is all the refreshed sour minus 15 g retained as stock – Faith)
  • 520 g scald

Combine the starter and scald
and leave to ferment for 4 hours. Make sure your to use a bowl of  1.5 L capacity or larger.

Dough

  • 575 g sponge
  • 250 g dark rye flour
  • 125 g whole rye flour
  • 5 g salt
  • 30 g sugar (if you don’t want to use refined sugars, use
    brown sugar, or else honey does a good job in my experience – Faith)
  • 10 g molasses
  1. Preheat the oven with stone
    to 240C (460F)
  2. Combine all ingredients in
    your proofing bowl, or mixer bowl if using a mixer. Stir/mix well and leave at
    30C for 10-30 minutes.
  3. Transfer the dough onto a wet
    plastic chopping/pastry board. With wet hands, form a round or oval loaf and
    transfer onto a sheet of baking paper. (I wonder if you could work the dough on
    parchment paper or silicone mat from the start? Of course parchment paper needs
    to be strong enough not to tear when wet – Faith) Allow to rest for 15-20
    minutes.
  4. Spread some water on top of
    the loaf and bake with steam for 40-45 minutes.

Adapted from “The Technology of
Bread-Baking” by L. Auerman

(I’m sure it would be even
better sprinkled with caraway seed, or with some whole caraway in the dough –
Faith)

Enjoy! And many thanks to suave for this beautiful recipe.

ananda's picture
ananda

Many thanks for this Faith,

Yes, I've started to work my way through suave's blog, and there is a lot of great stuff on there.

I found the layout of the site somewhat unfamiliar, and the Google translate to be difficult to work with at times...still lots to work with.

Regarding your earlier comment about Rossisky, I'm not surprised the VB bread is vastly different from the GOST version which I suspect is the reference point for suave.   Andrew Whitley had in mind a very simple[basic] bread when he first introduced that loaf.   The process and materials became even simpler as time went on too.   Today, it is made with all wholemeal rye, based on an 18 hour sour dough system...that's it.   When I first worked there, the dough contained some light rye flour.   In the original formula, the flour for the sour was initially gelatinised with boiling water.   Once thaty had cooled, the stock sour was added to innoculate it.

Very best wishes

Andy

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

In light of the discussion on flours here, and also below in this thread, I feel I should update the above translation as follows:

dark rye (oboynaya) flour should be wholemeal. If you're in the UK, Bacheldre and Shipton Mill Dark Rye are probably the best alternatives. Also Little Salkeld Watermill's rye flour, but that's considerably more expensive than Shipton and even Bacheldre.

wholemeal (obdirnaya) should be anything with extraction around 85%, which in the UK will invariably be light rye; in Germany, types 1370 1150 and 997 should all be good (so far as i can judge).

Ghobz's picture
Ghobz

That article totally makes sense now that it's properly translated. Thank you for your time and efforts.

I was about to prepare a vegetable-filled flat bread (traditional moroccan baking) for our supper and some for our russian neighbour to offer her as a token of my gratitude for translating the article. I feel it's not necessary to ask her anymore. I only will proceed asking her if you feel I should. Please let me know.

By the way, I'll take pictures of the veggie-filled bread and post the recipe here tonight or tomorrow. Short of being able to offer you the actual bread...

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Oh, no problem. You could still ask your neighbour if you doubt the quality of my translation ;-) but if you've already made her some of your bread, why not pass it on anyway? As a way of strengthening neighbourly relations :) although I'm sure it's so good you'll want to devour it all yourself!

Could I just suggest you post your photos (and a recipe, please!) in a separate thread, as I feel we've been hijacking Andy's blog long enough...

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Faith, I will never thank you enough! I'm a zealot of rye breads and having a translation of one of the breads of my dreams is fantastic! I guess we have to clarify one term: dark rye flour. So far many of us assumed it means wholemeal dark rye, but juding from your translation they are evidently two different things. Can you tell for sure how this dark rye flour is? You wrote that it's milled from the outer part of the grain, meaning "only from the aleurone" or "including the aleurone" ? You may remember that recently I've come across a R3 rye flour that is milled from the whole berry (including the aleurone) but has no bran. Maybe it's the same?

That zavarka is plain chocolate!

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

hi Nico,

Sorry I have absolutely no clue about how exactly that rye is ground! The explanation I posted is the one both Andy and Suave gave to me previously. I'll have to read up more on Russian flours to be able to clarify. Unfortunately there aren't always exact correllations between types of flour used in different cultures, I translated to the best of my knowledge but i could be less than 100% accurate.

Someone on suave's original Russian forum asked whether the water ratio needs to be changed if this bread were to be baked with only wholemeal flour. From his reply one would assume that it's possible to do just that, only use wholemeal.

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Nico,

I tried searching for technical descriptions of Russian flours some time ago and couldn't find much on rye flour in particular. However, our old friend suave has a brilliant article on the subject, and how Russian flours correspond with American and German ones. Unfortunately this one's in Russian as well. Perhaps Google will be more helpful here than with the recipes? Otherwise I'll have to spend the rest of my days translating suave's invaluable blog!

One thing he says in particular is that Russian flours are classified by the ash content, and the flours used in the pre-GOST Borodinsky recipe have the following ash content:

oboynaya, which I translated as dark rye (Google's wallpaper flour, rofl!!!) - max ash 2.0

obdirnaya, which I translated as wholemeal - max ash 1.45

He also mentions that the closest equivalent to oboynaya known to him is the German type 1740. Its ash content ranges from 1.60 to 1.80.

Hope you're now better placed to judged how similar your R3 is to oboynaya. Alternatively one would hope you may be able to purchase German 1740 in Italy.

 

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

also it may be of interest that Russian rye flours, even the darker ones, are often ground more finely than wholemeal flours here in the UK. That said, grinding grade doesn't always matter.

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

for all your help. The R3 has an ash content between 1.7 and 2.1, so... it must be the right one, hopefully. By the end of the month it should arrive. Time will tell:)

I really have to find the time to read suave's blog.

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Glad I was able to help.

I haven't had the time to read through entire suave's blog myself yet, and I can read Russian whereas you have to wade through Google's version!

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Oh woe be me! This is a never-ending exploration. Just read another article by suave where he mentions that ash count is measured differently in the US and Europe (including Russia). In the US, the ratio of ash to the weight of flour is measured (similar to baker's percentage), whereas in Europe, they measure the fraction of ash in flour. I.e. a 0.5 ash count per 100 g of flour in the US would mean, 5/100, whereas in Europe, it would be 5/95. Therefore American flours will have a slightly higher ash count than similarly labelled European flours.

The question is, how is it measured in the UK? Same as the rest of Europe, or as in the US?

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Faith,

I'm at work just now but will get back to you with more detail re ash and difference between UK/US classifications vis European.

Cheers

Andy

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Thanks Andy,

I suppose it might make sense for me to post the entire classification of Russian rye and wheat flours and ask you (and indeed the rest of TFL) voice their ideas on the best US/UK/Eur equivalents? in a separate thread perhaps? Would there be enough interest among those wishing to bake Russian bread?

Russian ryes are easy, they just go by the ash count, whereas the wheats go by ash+gluten.. it's going to be a real muddle trying to compare Rus wheat with US/UK which (to my knowledge) goes by strength (gluten) alone, and even that is obscured under "purpose"...

suave's picture
suave

That's not quite what I said.

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Sorry what exactly isn't what you said? And what did you say?

I apologise for any mis-representation but it was late and all that mass of information (and trying to summarise and translate it) was frankly doing my head in...

 

suave's picture
suave

I said that ash content in the US is calculated as a ratio of weigh of ash to the weight of the flour sample, whereas in Europe they use not the weight of the entire sample but the weight of dry matter in it.  Same for protein.

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Oh ok I see what you mean. Thank you

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Faith,

I wrote this on the train earlier:

Flour Classification


European flours are classified according to ash content, although there are different methods used to express this measurement.   In France flours are categorised as Types 45, 50, 55, 65, 80, 110, 150.   Germany adds a zero onto the end of this, eg. 1350 to measure wholemeal flour.

Italy uses Tipo “00”, Tipo “0” etc.

The double zero flour is equivalent to the French Type 45 and Tipo “0” equates to the French Type 55, the usual baguette flour.   The ash is the residue remaining from burning a sample of flour.   It is actually a measure of the mineral matter within the flour, as the starches are all readily combustible.   In the case of highly refined flours such as those above the ash measure is around 0.45%, virtually moribund!   Type 55 has 0.55% ash, Type 65 has 0.65%, 80 has 0.8% and so on.   Shipton Mill in the UK offer Rye Flour using German Classfications, although I believe their Dark Rye is wrongly labelled, as it is actually a wholemeal flour.   Light Rye is 997 which should equate to 0.997% ash, [which would be Type 99.7 using the French system].   Wholegrain Rye flour is 1350, or, 1.35% ash.   However Dark Rye, as explained by Nico with reference to R3, has an ash content over 1.5%, upto 1.8%

 

The problem with this system of classification is that no indication of the protein content is evident, so it is unclear for what purpose the flour is best suited, eg. Bread, cake, biscuit or pastry manufacture.

 

In the UK, this is indicated in the labelling by the terms Plain or Strong.   Additionally, nutritional information gives further guidance.   This may be the case with Continental flours, but not necessarily.   For instance anything labelled Farine de Blé, Type 55 does not give indication of the strength of the flour.   The only guidance would be found in the nutritional information by referring to protein content.   However, many here are well aware of the limitations of the headline protein reading, given that the quality of the protein is more important in many ways than the quantity.

 

For the UK, and I believe the US, mineral content in the flour is expressed in a different way.   It is normal to consider the amount of the original wholegrain which has been retained within the final flour.   So a true wholemeal is said to be of 100% extraction.   A typical “brown” flour would be approximately 85% extraction; in other words, 15% of the grain has been taken off during the milling process.   This is like the Gilchesters Farmhouse flour which can be considered as a true “high extraction” flour, in that the wholegrain is stoneground, then the outer layers are removed by passing the flour through a sequence of fine nylon sieves to remove the very outer layers of the bran coating.   The inner aleurone layer is retained, so too the germ.   A typical industrially milled white flour is around 72% extraction.   The grain is first conditioned through a period of soaking to loosen the bran layer and remove it before milling commences.   Industrial milling is more efficient at separating out the germ and bran from the endosperm, hence, one of the reasons why it appears whiter than traditionally milled and bolted flour.   Highly refined Patent flours will be around 60% extraction.

 

I quite like this system as it encourages the thinking person to reflect on the waste involved, and, by further rationalisation, how much of the nutritional aspect of the grain has been taken away.   The portion that is removed is used for animal feed.   The miller receives considerably less income for this than for the premium white bread flour…obviously.   Unfortunately, we are then deprived of an important source of vitamins and minerals which could contribute to a healthier daily diet.

 

I suspect the Continental system is used historically, in part at least, as it gives guidance to how fermentable the flour will prove to be, and, how quickly the ferment can be expected to start breaking down.   Obviously, it also demonstrates how white and refined one can expect the flour to be.

Best wishes

Andy

ps. I believe both Bacheldre and Shipton are wholemeal rye, although they are the nearest equivalent to the Dark Rye you were seeking.   Little Salkeld Watermill might be worth trying; again wholemeal, but very high ash content.   The Doves Farm and Waitrose own brand are definitely wholemeal.

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Andy, regarding italian flours:

-000 < 0.45% ashes

-00 < 0.55%

-0 < 0.65%

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farina

Type 000 is generally sold without mentioning the triple zero: it's described as "no lumps flour". Never used.

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Thanks Andy. A hefty volume!

I'll still need to do a lot of homework to determine workable equivalents for Russian wheat flours...

Little Salkeld is way too expensive, unfortunately...

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

Yippee! I just found a Polish type 2000 rye flour at 88 pence a kilo! http://www.bocian.co.uk/produkt/282/18958.html

the only problem being, delivery charge is £7 on orders under £20, and there's also an "administrative fee" of £2-3...

The good news is, it exists so maybe one of my local Polish shops stocks it

 

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

We have a number of Polish shops in our local community. Don't recall having seen flour, but will look again.

Best wishes, Daisy

FoodFascist's picture
FoodFascist

if you have a few at least one should have flour! They do lots of affordable wheat flours as well, these usually come in 1 kg bags and typically cost under £1..

  • there's mąka luksusowa, typ 550 (I think that's the max ash count, as opposed to a German "range") - I use that for cakes, it's sort of a medium strength so far as I can tell (I did make milk yeasted dough with it and it was just about allright strength-wise but not perfect). Good for pancakes (but I make very thin ones so strong works better there).
  • mąka poznańska, typ 500  - recommended for dough, pasta (including the Polish version of ravioli), pizza, as thickener in sauces - probably not much strength in that either, but I haven't tried it. In fact, I've only ever tried luksusowa.
  • mąka tortowa, typ 450 - that's obviously a pastry flour
  • mąka krupczatka, typ 500 - i think that's like a very fine semolina (but don't take my word for it), creamy-yellow in colour.
  • mąka wrocławska, typ 500 - that may be strong because it's recommended for yeasted dough and puff pastry (but luksusowa is also recommended for yeasted dough)
  • maka chlebowa - literally, bread flour. There's typ 720, 750 and 850

Brown and wholemeal flours:

  • typ 1700 - don't know the name
  • mąka graham, typ 1850
  • mąka razowa, typ 2000
  • mąka pełnego przemiału, typ 3000 (I didn't even know that's possible!)

There's also maka ziemniaczana - potato flour.

I personally have only come across the flours in the first list and the potato flour. I can't remember seeing rye, but since my Polish is pants I may not have recognised it.

I'm convinced I've seen a typ 650... but could be wishful thinking.

Now I'm wondering how all these type 450, 550, 650 (if it exists) compare to French flours with the same ash count... Not that I was planning to tackle anything French in the near future but it may be of relevance to someone who is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Many thanks for this! Probably didn't notice the flours as I was looking for pickled peppers LOL.

Would be great to find different types of bread flour. Have been attempting more French-style breads of late. I'm looking to restock on pizza/pasta flour as well. 

Does anyone know if sprays are used widely on crops and in storehouses in Poland or not? I buy a range of flours but gravitate towards organic/bio if available. Do understand, however, that some nations use far fewer sprays than others in their non-bio flours. 

Will look to see if there is anything on the rye front also. Many thanks again for taking the time to offer so much detail.

Best wishes, Daisy

suave's picture
suave

I've seen, bought and tried Polish 650, side by side with 550 of the same manufacturer.  To my disappointment they were virtually indistinguishable, both as flours and as baguettes.

lumos's picture
lumos

Hi, suave,

How did Polish 550/650 compare with French 55/65?   Faith and I have been discussing about this yesterday and we wondered how diffrent Polish wheat could be from French wheat, especially the gluten quality.  Our wildest guess was that Polish one could be stronger because its winter was colder.....but they may use imported grains from various parts of the world, so maybe you can't quite generalize it so simply....

lumos

suave's picture
suave

I have no idea, it is not possible to get French flour here in the US.

lumos's picture
lumos

Oh, I see.....OK, thank you very much for reply, anyway. :)

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Andy, It sounds like you found a good position that gives you also the possibility to follow your personal baking interests. Great!

I didn't get around yet to get locally milled flower and try your Gilchester's formula, but your posts have been a great inspiration for altering some of my tried and tested breads.

Juergen

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Juergen,

I hadn't seen much of you on TFL, really good to hear from you.

Yes, Leeds offers good opportunities.

I'm sure you'll get into speciality flour; Shipton offer such a good range and variety anyway

So will we get a chance to meet up at the TFL event now in the planning?

All good wishes

Andy

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi Andy, I had a busy Autumn (or should I say summer?).So I spent my extra time baking rather than blogging.

Before my holiday I wondered what bread I could take to start us off in that remote cottage (after 1 day in London and 3 days in Cardiff)

I managed to fit in a 3 stage detmolder process (using the newly bought picnic thermo box, £9.99 at Argos) and making Hamelman's 90% rye with all shipton flours - what a fantastic bread!

I look very much forward to meetig you at the TFL event.

Best Wishes,

Juergen

 

saintdennis's picture
saintdennis

How can I find here in USA red malt flour or red malt from rye. I'm looking all over but no luck. And how to make the temperature 60-65C (149F) my oven get lowest to 170F and recipe say leave the scald for 4-6 hours at temperature 60-65C

(149F) please, help.

 

                   Saintdennis

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi saintdennis,
I am UK-based, so I really can't help you source Red Malt in New York, sorry.
With regard to holding the "mash" between 160 and 165*C you need to insulate your pan and contents as well as you possibly can.
In your situation, I would use a heavy pan with a good tight-fitting lid. Make the scald and place in a lightly pre-heated oven with the temperature switched off. Stir occasionally, and switch the oven onto low from time to time as required to maintain the temperature range.
Best wishes
Andy

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