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Attending SFBI Artisan I Workshop - Thread with daily updates

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SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Attending SFBI Artisan I Workshop - Thread with daily updates

Hi everyone, well I made it to San Francisco and signed up for a 5 day workshop at SFBI.  Pretty excited - class starts tomorrow.  There are 2 more successive classes that begin one and two weeks away.  I am only here for Artisan I.  I can't wait. 

 SD Baker

renoles's picture
renoles

Be sure to take good notes and please share with the rest of us. I'm putting that on a list for my wife...I'd really like this as a "working vacation"...

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I've heard nothing but praise from folks who have gone through those workshops. Enjoy!

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Thanks Floyd.  Losing count how many people I am directing to thefreshloaf.

SD Baker

fleur-de-liz's picture
fleur-de-liz

SD Baker:  I have been thinking about taking the Artisan series of classes at SFBI.  I am anxious to hear about your experience.  Keep us posted if you have the time.

Thanks,

Liz

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

I have a notebook... but my friend just took of with my camera in her purse!

Nhumi's picture
Nhumi

SDBaker,

 You are so lucky, Ive been eyeing that course forever.  Please keep us in touch on how you like the course, what you learned.  Iam also in SD, so maybe we can talk more about bread.  

Nhumi

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Sure thing.  I'd like to begin a bread/baking community in the region.  Let me know if the posts so far are of any value. 

SD Baker

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

It would be cool if we could put a regional group together - I know Zolablue is also in Omaha....any other midwestern bakers here?

 Trish, Omaha, NE

gianfornaio's picture
gianfornaio

I'm from Council Bluffs and make it back from the Des Moines area periodically-- I'm always looking for excuses to get back to the Omaha area more often...

John  

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Sounds good..but my "region" is San Diego/SoCal..      :  )

You might consider starting a mid-west regional group.

SD Baker

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Hello everyone.  The weather up here in San Francisco is great. Fog burns off, nice breeze.  Perfect bread making/proofing temps.  Here are a few observations of day one.

The day starts at 8AM with some pastries/coffee, socialization as the class comes together.   I got there at 7:15 and they were open.  Class attire is a white chef's coat, and comfortable pants/shoees.  For me, it was an excuse to buy a white chef's coat (they preferred/asked I not bring my denim chef's jacket), some cargo chef's pants and Merril clogs (Very comfy)..couldn't get comfortable in Dansko.  Clogs not required.

The space is clean, bright, full of modern equipment. Note, although advertised for the industry professional seeking to improve skills, as well as the home baker - the equipment is industry standard size mixers and ovens with conveyors.  So, not much depth on the use of the home oven. Some, but not much in the way of steaming options other than cast iron and ice cubes for the home baker.  (This would be for me the more disappointing aspect of the day..but that would be it so far.) Everything else is applicable to the homebaker.

First half of day one is class and basic bread information.  Since this the first course and a prerequisite for follow on courses, they start from the very basics.  By 11AM the instructor will mix the first dough, talk about mixing, and this gives a venue to familiarize everyone to the bakery and how to operate the mixers.  Touching the dough is encouraged at the various stages, looking for the "windowpane."  Class size is 15 I think, and the largest they will take.  The space is huge.  Future mixes will be by the students.  Tables are very large and 4 to a table, 2 on each end facing the opposite side.

This first dough is a simple lean dough, baguette.  Every day will work on baguette, and encorporate finer techniques, larger production (5 baguettes first day), and eventually go to other breads.

 Important to note, Artisan I does NOT cover sourdoughs, starters, levain etc.  That is Artisan II (Week 2) which I will unfortuneately not be able to take due to my next Navy assignment.  The instructor is top notch, easy to speak to, well spoken himself, and works personally with each student on the floor.  He has worked all over the country for ten years, including Jefferey Hamelman of KA fame.  He also has extensive knowldege of wood ovens and flour characteristics.

Afternoon is the dividing, pre-shaping, etc all the way to the bake.  Every student works with his own dough.  The instructor seems to know where each student is at and works help each at the appropriate level..(but still no sourdough).

 Lecture is worked around the proof and bake.  Cont...

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Day one topics: Lecture and hands on

Lecture topics:

Welcome

Presentation of the seminar

Overview of the mixing process

Baking terminology

Ingredients funcionality

Fermentation

Dough handling

Intro to bakers%

Hands on:

Mixing one straight dough

Dividing

Pre-shaping (Note: Very thoroughly covered as one of the most imortant steps)

Shaping

Oven loading (Note: commercial, with steam injection)

Scoring

Baking

Then, we have our bread evaluated, then taste.

Things I learned today:

Sprial mixers are more gentle than planetary style, role of deactivated yeast as a dough relaxer, affects of oxidation, calculating appropriate water temperature given room temp, dough temp, and anticipated heat due to friction, a very effective way to handle the dough for scaling, a few new flour companies for artisan baking, and most importantly for my baguette skills..a good way to preshape without degassing, followed by a good way for final shaping.  Also learned some slashing techniques and that I have been overproofing my dough..a lot.

One reason I switched to sourdoughs and boules was the challenge of getting a good baguette shape. 

 Week 1 really hammers home fundamentals, with more adding each day.

 Overall, did I learn a whole lot?  I'd have to say not yet.  However, this was only day one.  I am looking forward to tomorrow.  it feels great just to be here.

fleur-de-liz's picture
fleur-de-liz

SD Baker:  Thank you for the detailed description of Day 1 of Artisan Baking at SFBI. I am so envious!  I can't wait to hear more.  Thanks so much for taking the time to fill us in.  You are definitely tempting me to sign up!

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

FDL, if you go, make every attempt to make it to Artisan II - that is the sourdough section.

 SD Baker

Plannerjohn's picture
Plannerjohn

Can you tell us about the other students?  Are they home bakers or professionals?  Taking more than one course or just this one?

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Hi Plannerhjohn.  Class is about 1/3 serious home baker, 1/3 culinary associated professionals, and 1/3 those interested in perhaps pursuing a career.

Age range 20 - 60, median age approx 30.

The enviroment is open and questions are encouraged.

About half of this clsass are going onto Artisan II (sourdough).  Since Artisan II is full, that would mean the other half of the next class are graduates - unless they waive the pre-req of Artisan I for professionals.

Again, this is not the 18 week professional program.

SD Baker

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Greetings everyone - just had dinner at the hotel and settling down for the evening but wanted to share today's class with you. (spelling disclaimer up front - just getting the info out to everyone)

Lecture topics:

Relationship between mixing and fermentation

Different mixing techniques

Short mix

Improved mix

Intensive mix

Calculating mixing time

Baking of the dough

Role of steam

Baker's percentage (math)

 

Hands on:

Short mix dough

Improved mix dough

Intensive mix dough

Dividing

Preshaping

Oven loading

Scoring

Baking.

     End of the day: evaluation of individuals' technique/product, side-by-side comparisons of the different breads

     OK, today was another full day.  Breakfast and Lunch are provided by the school with pastries, savory galletes, great sandwiches etc.  Bring change for the soda machine, but they are good about making change if you need it - just no change machine.  Comfortable shoes are a must.

     Today's breads were again focussed on the baguette, but changing hydration, yeast %, and fermentation times. Working on improving technique is large part of the hands on portion.  A lot of time in discussing, making, baking, testing the differences between short mix, improved, and intensive mix doughs.  Discussion about the various fermentation differences, affect on available sugars and subsequent caramelization impact crust characteristics. 

     The class so far is focussed on white flour - an effort to keep some variables constant.  We did, however, gain some info on Rye and whole wheat and it's special requirements for hydration, how it rises, its dough structure (or lack thereof), kneeding differences, etc..  Not in depth, but as a comparisong to white flour.

     Again, lots (Lots) of compare/contrast between short, improved, and intensive mixes as it pertains to hydration %, dough consistency, mixing times/speed, yeast %, anticipating the "friction factor" in the formula for adjusting water temp for optimal final bread dough temp and subsequent ideal fermentation temps, number of folds (or no folds) and why, proofing times, lots of dough/gluten development discussion among the three, most importantly, taste differences along with final bread physical characteristics such as cross section (will it be oval, flat oval, smaller or larger volume, etc) and culinary application.  Lots of crust/crumb compare and contrast.

     The doughs are scaled and mixed in one large batch for the class, divided for a table, and then each person. 2 students to a scale, and each student weighs out five 0.350 kg dough pieces. Again, much emphasis on proper preshaping and how to work with the various mixes (short, improved, intensive) at this stage. 

     Two method for final shaping are covered, each student decidng which is more comfortable. We made the three types, each student maing 5 baguettes of each for a total of 15 baguettes.

     Lots of assistance in scoring, and how it's different from sourdough scoring.

Class covered more fermentation principles getting into the enzyme reactions, some pH discussion, and affects of acidity on shelf life, aroma/taste, and dough strength.

     Today was good for improving the intuitive feel between elasticity and extensibility and the dramatic effect of just one fold in the proofing bin upon gluten development.  I learned my beloved "dough doubler" is not the optimal shape for proofing given the height and subsequent pressure of the dough as it rises upon itelf - much better to use a bin style.

     Learned a very cool trick to get that dough off your hands before you wash it down your sink..."wash" your hands in some flour over the trash bin..will cause the old dough to roll off your hands much more easily.  Another important lesson that improves my baguette rolling for final shaping, and scoring consistency is my foot/back/shoulder stance.  Standing evenly/squarely reall does improve one's consistency and final product quality.  The entire class's scoring has improved dramatically so far.  Everyone seems to be enjoying themselves.

Is there something I am not covering that you are interested in?

SD Baker

Plannerjohn's picture
Plannerjohn

SD Baker,
Thanks for all the info!!!  You're making my decision to enroll in a class (or series of classes) much easier!
PlannerJohn

Jeffrey's picture
Jeffrey

You did leave dough all over your fingers, so you can have real San Fransisco Sourdough, didn't you?

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Well, part of the day at least.  I learned a good trick - roll some dry floor into your hands, and 90% of the old dough will clean up (over a trash can).  Helps keep your sink from clogging.

 SDbaker

fleur-de-liz's picture
fleur-de-liz

WOW!!!!  Day 2 certainly was action packed.  I'm a bit intimidated by the depth of the class, but would definitely benefit from such an intensive hands-on class.  If I do enroll, I would take Artisan II as the sourdough series would be of great interest to me.  It will be difficult for me to take the time to do the classes consecutively.  Do some people come back at a later date for Artisan II?  How much in advance do you have to sign up to secure a spot? 

Thanks, again, SDBaker, for taking the time to provide such great details on the class.  I really appreciate it!

Liz

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Hi Liz, taking Artisan 1 will fullfil the requirement for taking Artisan II at a later date.  I believe there is a 10% discount if you take the class within a year.  I am not sure about future class availability, but am sure the front desk can help out. 

SD Baker

fleur-de-liz's picture
fleur-de-liz

SDBaker: Just reread your detailed post on Day 2 at SFBI and your comment that "I learned my beloved "dough doubler" is not the optimal shape for proofing given the height and subsequent pressure of the dough as it rises upon itelf - much better to use a bin style" caught my attention.  I have been using these tall Cambro bins for proofing:

Is it better to use lower, wider bins?

 Thanks! Liz

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

The use of a shorter, wider bin allows the dough to rise and spread out instead of climb.  This is apparently to reduce the work required of the dough. I would add that although I liberally oil my doublers, they do not always come out as undisturbed as in a bin style, particularly after an overnight bulk fermentaion.  If a fold is needed, it can be done right in the bin - even less dough disturbance (and a cleaner counter or bread board).

Am I going to get rid of my doublers? No.  Will I keep using them? perhaps for soakers and until I can find the right shape/volume of a bin that will fit in my fridge.

I realize there are a lot of super fine points I am sharing with everyone from the class.  For me, the more of them I encorporate - like all of the Great tips I have received from thefreshloaf masters, just keeps improving my final product. 

SD Baker

BROTKUNST's picture
BROTKUNST

I think this concern is more valid for large quantities of dough ... not 2-4 lbs. A round dough doubler for 50 lbs would have a different width to height ration. Also, a 50lb dough is lifted much easier from a tub than a bucket.  My 6 qt Cambro dough doubler is already pretty wide and rather low.

 

BROTKUNST

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

OK, here's today's lesson topics:

Lecture:

Flour technology

Classes of wheat

Description of the kernal of wheat

Milling process

Different types of flour

Treatments

Protein quality and quantity

Ash content

Organic flour

Hands on:

Side by side mixing, shaping, baking, etc of a low protein bread flour and a high gluten flour

Again.. - the preshaping,

shaping, etc

Oven loading

Scoring

Baking.

 End the day with taste/crust/crumb comparison - and why.

Today, we learned more finer techniques on the shaping of the classic baguette. Over all the class is getting better. I tried to increase speed, which I did, but suffered some in length (shaping) and scoring consistency.

-Learned the "perfect" thickness of a baguette is supposed to be that of an eggshell - nice visual reference. 

-Use of a poolish, which increases flavor, may enable you to reduce salt to 1.8% vice an intensive mix which needs flavor and would want to keep salt at 2%.

-Sometimes a half fold (2 sides) is better than a full fold (4 sides)

- Learned how to calculate the "friction factor" for home mixers for a given dough in order to get the correct water temp for idead final dough temperature.  This is simply using the standard formula, but using a known water temp and solving the equation for friction factor (F.F.) - which you can then use in future doughs of the same type - short, improved, or intensive (each would be different).  Smaller batches would have a larger F.F. since a larger percentage of the dough surface area comes in contact with the bowl.

-When to add eggs and oil, seeds, and why.  When to add butter in the recipe, and why.

- Thinking about the ideal time for baguetts was covered.  Then using one's actual time for crust/crumb to finish cooking to alter oven temp for proper baking back to a predetermined time.  (Thinking outloud, this probably provides a common constant rate of heat/time/at various depths of the dough.  If all the baguettes are the same size across several ovens, and they all finish cooking at the same time, the heat must have been the same regardless of thermometer, thermal oven mass etc).

CO2 production is at 120-130 degrees

Starch begins to gelatinize at 130

Enzymes inactivated at 158

Gluten coagulates @ 160

Starch gelatinization ends at 185

Yeast dies at 140-142

When par-baking, go to an internal temp of 185-200 before removing, cooling, freezing.

- Affect of Maillard reaction in comparison to sugar caramelization.  Higher gluten = more protein= more redding color and associated flavor profile.

- For taste testing purposes, optimal cooling time for baguette is 30 min, sourdough is 4-6 hours.  (but who really waits that long every time?)

-SFBI is currently using mostly "Harvest King" flour for its white flour.  It is an artisan branch of General Mills Flour.

-Learning a lot about the different types of wheat, particulary the use of spring vs winter wheats.

It was a good day.  Learned some subtle shaping, baking, taste differences on a test recipe with two different protein flours. (Cliff Notes: lower protein bread flour has a more complex flavor profile, more pronounced "ears," more balanced crust flavor.  The higher gluten flour was easier to handle and produced a decent baguette, but the crumb was less flavorful.  The crust, although crisp, was a bit "off" from its counterpart.  The higher gluten does enable it to be more forgiving in larger mechanical production facilities..which is why those places use it.  It also produces a more forgiving, consistent product albeit slightly less tasty

  Tomorrow we begin baking the pre-fermented doughs and a few improved doughs.  The pre-ferments were made today.  It's going to be a long day in the bakery.

SD Baker

KipperCat's picture
KipperCat

I am loving reading your blog.  Thank you so much! 

When is a half fold better than a full fold?

I would love to hear more about the different types of wheat - when you have time, that is.

I'm curious about much of what you've posted. In fact, when you finish the class, I imagine we'll all want to pick your brain quite a bit! 

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

KipperCat, I think that would be fun...will make me review my notes. 

 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thanks for hanging in there SD Baker. I know you are putting in some long days and must be fried at the end. I know we are all anxious to follow your progress and are waiting to hear you summary. Keep up the good work!

Eric

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Thanks Eric.  Today was rather long..lots of different loaves which was exciting: 4 rye, 3 pain de mie, each a different shape (a tasty pain de mie), 5 wheat, 2 egg bread braids (fun), and 4 multigrain.  It's almost 11 and I have to pack tonight.  I answered a few questions while it was fresh, but I regret I will not be able to post a report tonight..

Thanks for the encouragement. More soon.

SD Baker

browndog's picture
browndog

SD Baker, finding this captivating reading and am full of questions. I'll toss out two in case you get a moment to breathe and an inclination to answer--

1) What about the overproofing? I bet a lot of us are doing it, if you are. How should we judge, besides the obvious 'marked bins' option?

2) How is scoring sourdough different from scoring other breads?

 

 

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Hi Browndog - only have a min before I head out for day 4 but here's the short answer on scoring.  Yeased breads in general are scored less deeply than sourdoughs due the more fragile nature of the dough.

Rather glad some of my blogging is some interest to the group (never blogged about anything before).  I'll keep doing it.

SD Baker

leemid's picture
leemid

This is cliff hanging at its best. Forget the serials of the 40s & 50s! We all wait for the next installment, hoping it will be more like volumes and volumes instead of a few paragraphs, not that we want you to stay up all night. Well, okay, so we do... I was just thinking it would be nice if you can take pictures all day and post those. And then when you are done with the course can you write down every word you heard each day in your blog as a review, and oh yes, are you not going on tour next week with all this new knowledge?

Interested? Is anything else going on in the world?

Lee

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Just getting home from day 4... yes, heading soon out for while for some other obligations  (which is a good reason for me to be "that guy" in class asking questions, taking notes, asking obsure questions, handing out the http address of thefreshloaf.  Once I leave, my focus will shift dramatically for a while.  Once the dust settles, I will be back.

I am not that much of a technology guru and have had some challenges posting pics on thefreshloaf.  I know there are threads that cover this - I am lucky to find time to download the camera  : )

 If anyone sends me an email <KRALC100@AOL.COM> , I will forward my myspace account which, if you have an account, you can see my pictures of the class so far. 

You will see an album for that.  They are not that profound, mosly for my own memory activation.  My notebook looks like a DaVinci scrap pad with notes and diagrams.  The class is too fast paced for a lot of picture taking but I try (if my fingers are clean!)

SD Baker

dwg302's picture
dwg302

i noticed your comment in the beginning that you were previously overproofing your bread by alot and am curious if you could go further into that.    can you give an example and what happens when you do overproof?

david

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

David, I am still trying to get some metrics on measuring proofing and "readiness" for dividing/preshaping.  It is largely a function of allowing the gluten to relax after mixing during bulk ferment - looking for that extensibility (the other side of coin from elasticity).  The teacher will grab a bunch of a corner of the dough in the bin, and shake it back an forth, looking for some play. The only visual I can think of at the moment is: did you ever shake a pencil as a kid giving the illusion of it bending back and forth?  Well, if you can imagine that wavy movement in dough, the extensibilty will allow preshaping (sorry, thats the only visual representation I have at the moment).  The act of dividing and preshaping will strengthen the gluten..then we wait.  The yeast acts upon the pre-shaped dough, the gluten relaxes.

Time is dependent upong how agressively the preshape was created:  Do you work the heck out of that preshape boule or batard, trying to get it perfect? Then the wait will be longer until final shaping can be done.  Gas accumulation is also a component.  I don't yet have a good measurement for that.  Most are familar with the cookbook standard "bake when dough has doubled in size" or "increased by 50%"  - I have to get some of that mystery solved.

I will say that I have revamped my use of the common finger push test for gluten development.  I now push MUCH more gently with the pad of my finger, not deep - say 2/16 - 3/16 of an inch perhaps.

SD Baker

edh's picture
edh

SDbaker;

Just wanted to thank you for all your fantastic notes you're sending on to all of us; the course sounds terrific, but you're doing an amazing job of condensing and sharing a huge amount of information.

I agree with Lee; this is a cliff hanger! Just hope you're getting a little rest at the end of the long days as well...

edh

Rosalie's picture
Rosalie

Yes, your reports are fascinating.  I imagine you are not doing this just for us but to decompress and digest your days.  I'd love to attend one of these sessions, but, as someone else said, it does sound a bit intimidating.  Yes, I know, get over it!

You said, "When par-baking, go to an internal temp of 185-200 before removing, cooling, freezing."  But isn't that the temperature we fully bake to?  How is this par-baking test different from the "done" test?

Rosalie

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Excellent question Roalie, and one which I wanted to ask - but failed to do yet.  The point is to par bake until the dough system has set - which I would presume to be when the starch has gelatinized which occurs at 185 degrees.  I dont have experience in par baking, but would aim for the low side of 185-200, and not brown the crust.

I would get the baguette closer to 200 when fully baking fro start to finish (no parbake).  I would pull out the par baked baguette whent the crust is properly developed, that way the remaining internal cooking would be minimal if already set.  I will try ask tomorrow - perhaps there are some experts on the thefreshloaf that have more experiance...

 SD Baker

zolablue's picture
zolablue

I am enjoying your posts so much.  You are certainly imparting some super details that are allowing me to pick up little things I've been doing wrong or at least thinking about.  I also recently discovered I was way, way overproofing my doughs thinking all along it was my slashing that was to blame.  That was a big one. 

 

I'd also wondered about the size and shape of rising buckets and how that may contribute or not to the proper rise of dough but never got around to asking the question.  I love the dough doublers and have several sizes.  I did just buy an extra 6-qt size because I liked that it was easier to use for heavy sourdoughs but also seemed it would give the dough more room and also had to have something to do with temperature and rise times - not sure about that though.

 


On another thread there was some discussion about adding salt and yeast, in the case of instant yeast especially, and if you need to keep them separated on two sides of the bowl or if it is ok to dump them in with the flour at the same time.  I'd like to have that answered as there seems to be some discrepancy.

 

You must be having the time of your life.  I can't thank you enough for your kind generosity in taking the time during such an exciting and busy event to fill us in on what you are learning.  I have purchased supplies from SFBI and found them to be a stellar company so you are indeed very lucky to be taking their classes.

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Zolablue, thank you for the kind words.  I have had many questions answered by the smart folks here on thefreshloaf, and hope they don't stop!  I am glad I can add something small to our collective body of knowledge.

As for dough doublers, I think a larger bucket would be better than a smaller one - but at smaller volumes, it seems to me a smaller issue.   I will continue to use them until I can find a bin that will work in the fridge (or a larger circumference, shorter dough doubler).  There are many other things I can continue to improve while I look for the perfect bin  : )

Yeast/Salt separation:  This actually came up in class.  The instructor is not concerned if they touch relatively briefly in the mixer.  When using mis en place for longer periods before use, he would keep them separated. 

Here's my take from a scientific point of view:  If you have the space in the mixer, why risk it?  When water is added and the salt goes into solution, it's molecular contact with yeast is dramatically increased.  Our teacher is very experianced, and if this was a problem, I am sure he would mention it.  in fact he went out of his way to mention it was Not a problem.  That being said, he works about 8 times faster than any home baker - I think I'll just separate the two until incorporated.  Does this help?

SD Baker

fleur-de-liz's picture
fleur-de-liz

SDBaker:  I would love to participate in any future regional bread baking gatherings.  I am about an hour north of you and I know there are other Southern California bakers out there.   I am very much a novice and may not have that much to contribute, but would greatly appreciate the opportunity to learn from other bakers.  Great idea!  Liz

Nhumi's picture
Nhumi

Hello,

I am totally into such a gathering.  Iam also located in San Diego.

-Yumi

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Being a good midwestern girl, I thought SD stood for South Dakata...woops..

Trish

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

..even better,  on bread site, SD sometimes = sourdough. 

 s/

San Diego Baker 

(man, that's a mouthful)

gianfornaio's picture
gianfornaio

I would like to echo that question:

-Sometimes a half fold (2 sides) is better than a full fold (4 sides)

When is this the case? Also, what about the overproofing?

Great notes, super helpful! Wish I was there.

John

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

John and Kippercat - regarding the half fold vs full fold.  The comment made by the teacher was more of a passing comment, not something that anyone other than me would probable even bother to write down.  I think it comes with making a particular dough a few thousand times (and watching hundreds of students make mistakes).  The frustrating part of the course, if you could call it that, is that regardless of my passion - I will only develop my intuitive sense by baking more.  Seeing someone who has mastered it makes me want to continue to learn more because a) I will make better bread for friends and family, and b) I know there is more to learn.  I will tuck away these very fine points into my quiver and wait for the right time to draw that arrow. 

That being said, today we were making some rye bread (believe it was the rye) and we were cautioned against shaping the boules too much - since they would rip at the bottom area.  It is this level of awareness I am attempting/beginning to develop.

As far as the half fold, once the proper extensibilty has been developed (see my soft rubber pencil demo above), go into dividing and pre-shaping.  The more the dough is worked at this stage, the longer you will wait for final shaping.  Did this help?

SD Baker

KipperCat's picture
KipperCat

So if you do more folds at the point where you should be dividing and shaping, does the dough firm up so that it's too "strong" to shape easily? - i.e. resistant to handling?  I think I've done that.

And, yes it did help. I suspect I'll be reading this thread over quite a lot to try and fix a lot of the info in my brain!

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

I suspect a very gluten developed, firm dough could be divided an preshaped..but either way, the wait for final shaping will need to happen - otherwise, you're working with rubber bands. 

Woz's picture
Woz

A HUGE thankyou from the Antipodes to SDbaker for freely sharing so much information and insight. Mucho Food for Thought - pun intended.

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Woz, what is your particular antipodal position - South Africa? Australia?

SD Baker

jane's picture
jane

I will be attending the 2008 classes, your info are really helpful. Answer all my questions.

Thank you,

Jane

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Hi everyone, I have just returned to San Diego.  Over the next few days my goal is to give notes on days 4 and 5, with a wrap up summary.   I do have a nice series of pics of side-by-side comparisons of baguette with poolish, sponge, and pate fermentee vs a straight dough. Very interesting results - visually and tastewise.  pics include crust and lengthwise cross section. 

I had a good time, learned (and relearned the right way) a lot about bread.  I hope to get it out to you very soon.

Enjoy your weekend baking!

SD Baker

fleur-de-liz's picture
fleur-de-liz

SDbaker: Looking forward to reading more about your SFBI experience and seeing your photos.  Thanks, again, for sharing all your valuable information.  I already have gained so much from you.  Liz

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

I haven't forgotten my promise to post the last two days at SFBI. I am heading out tomorrow on a deployment with some intermediate training.  Unfortuneately this week has been clobbered by adminstrative items.  I am bringing my notbook and when I have a moment I will log on!

God Bless,

SD Baker

KipperCat's picture
KipperCat

Have a good week.  We'll enjoy your posts whenever you have time for them.

browndog's picture
browndog

I'm another one who couldn't decide if you were 'sour-dough' or 'South Dakota'...never considering a California connection. You've already been very generous with your time and information, thank you heaps. And you have my respect and appreciation for your service with the military in difficult times. Looking forward, along with the rest of TFL, to the next installments of SFBI High whenever they appear.

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Keep your head down Navy and stay safe!

Eric

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

waiting for you.  --Mini Oven

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

be with you..God speed

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Thanks Paddyscake, ehanner, browndog, minioven et al for the supportive words.  A friend is mailing my notes from SFBI and when I get settled in a few weeks I will finish the thread..good info on proofing.  I am halfway finished with my training in South Carolina...wow is it warm down here.  How do you bakers work in SC  : )

Had a day off with some time to play on TFL, hope everyone is well. 

SD Baker

Bread Buddy's picture
Bread Buddy

I had the opportunity to attend a similar workshop at the FCI in NYC two years ago and it was wonderful.  The SFBI workshop sounds just like it.  I highly recommend taking these artisan classes to anyone who is a passionate bread baker.  The courses are very intense and you are taught a lot.  Best of all it is great fun!

shuttervector's picture
shuttervector

I am also in SD. I would love to take some local classes in San Diego. I have just gotten bitten by the bread baking bug.


shuttervector@gmail.com

shuttervector's picture
shuttervector

I am also in San Diego and I would love to take some local classes of any kind.

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

This is exactly what I've been wanting to do when I retire in a year or so but I'm in a bit of a dilemma as I'm just a novice; I'm afraid that the classes may be more geared for the baking professionals and too complicated for inexperienced folks like me.  I'm from HK so the course fees plus accommodation and airfare is going to cause a big dent in my pocket.  I was actually thinking of putting up a post to see if anyone could recommend bread-making courses that I could take without causing an arm and a leg.  Now that I've managed to find this post, I'll think very carefully and meanwhlle learn as much as I can from the Freshloaf  to improve my bread baking skills and then I'll see if I still want to do this.  Thank you so much...